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Sunday, December 3, 2023
Choosing Daas Torah
From the Q&A session at the Agudah convention for full replay see here
The Brisker Rov zt"l said a talmid Chochum is not someone who knows how to learn, it's one who learns! If you're דעת תורה is not consistently learning seek a ת'ח who is!
The גמרה states that a ת"ח who lacks דעה is akin to a נבלה.
One must realize that nowadays most Rabbanim shlita are specialists asking them a question out of their area of expertise is unfair and foolhardy.
Who decides who is Daas Torah? Are only members of Moetzes members Daas Torah?
The "Moetzes" don't seem to agree with each other on too much anymore. Too many mess-ups recently. The Gedolim who are learning don't have time for conference calls and silly meetings.
They are available for their talmidim. They aren't interested and don't have the time to travel the world speaking and getting involved in what everyone else is doing.
Moetzes does not mean much in rov of the Yeshivos nowadays. The talmidim follow their Rabeim, who follow their Rabbeim, most who were not at the conention.
Every Shul in West Gate has a Rav, who people turn to with Shailos. Every neighborhood has a Rav. And a Rav can also mean a Rebbe from Yeshiva. Someone who the Bochur turns to for advice.
There is no question that there are some issues which relate to shikul hadaas. Reasonable minds can differ whether it was crucial for masses of Jews to kill a day and march in Washington.
What concerned people, however, was some of the sevaros which were offered against attending the rally. One argument was that we shouldn't even try to do hishtadlus. That, rightly or wrongly, rubbed people the wrong way. What also rubbed people the wrong way - rightly or wrongly - was the suggestion that being present at a location where hatikva was being sung was yehareg v'al yaavor.
Nobody is above criticism. אין מלך בלא עם. Ultimately, it is the laypeople who decide who are their Gedolim. Some follow the YU gedolim. Some follow the Yeshivish gedolim. Some follow Lubavitch Gedolim. Ultimately, a person should choose Gadolim whose opinions make sense to him and fit with what Chazal said. There's no other method.
Have we reached the point that Rav Chaim Sarna z"l predicted that the time is coming(paraphrase)that the only that gadol is going to mean is that he wears hoizen?
a.Who started the present fire?Those or their families who now spent their life coveting those inside positions? b.He is a visitor & misses the system c.The situation is far worse than "minor" d.60 years ago, the attacks were coming from far different sources than now. d.We tried your way for a few decades now .The recent record has't been as pretty in comparison with the past. e.On the contrary when the tzibbur refused to heed (eg Corzine,etc.) just about everybody grudgingly concurred after the fact, even if/when grudgingly, that They were on target better than the supposed establishment manhigim f. Claiming that our system practicing the same thing as the past even if it were somehow so- at best it is a Kaletet (robotic tape recorder) at worst a sign of frozen system incapable of advancing to tachlis suffering from collective wear & tear
Many of those eg opposing Schnall have longer experience of devotion to the klal' than all the those who backed him combined .They are ignored for less than altruistic basis. They have volumes of mesiras nefesh & vision It was davka for these that R Shnuer Kotler held that a group of klohr Bnei Torah have the din of Gadol Acc. to them, how?
For V'yema'en & youth he agrees a new approach is direly needed. The traditional system & those considered to be in charge have been left behind.So follow that through. Shall we all extrapolate well beyond ?
If you're stuck on an island & there isn't a kohen there.It is just too bad.You manage without
ReplyDeleteSame with DT
ReplyDeleteAguda is gonna keep on banging away on this theme while the anvil still remains hot
The Brisker Rov zt"l said a talmid Chochum is not someone who knows how to learn, it's one who learns! If you're דעת תורה is not consistently learning seek a ת'ח who is!
ReplyDeleteThe גמרה states that a ת"ח who lacks דעה is akin to a נבלה.
One must realize that nowadays most Rabbanim shlita are specialists asking them a question out of their area of expertise is unfair and foolhardy.
If a TC lacking Daas is like a nevaila, kol vochoner a commenter who has no basic daas aka brains.
Deleteקשוט עצמך......
DeleteI looked in the shpigel and I saw my comment.
DeleteI also saw 'oifen ganev brent deh hittel'
Who decides who is Daas Torah? Are only members of Moetzes members Daas Torah?
ReplyDeleteThe "Moetzes" don't seem to agree with each other on too much anymore. Too many mess-ups recently. The Gedolim who are learning don't have time for conference calls and silly meetings.
Thus the gedolim learning 24/7 with no time for conference calls are also not available for their daas Torah to the masses or individuals.
DeleteThey are available for their talmidim. They aren't interested and don't have the time to travel the world speaking and getting involved in what everyone else is doing.
DeleteMoetzes does not mean much in rov of the Yeshivos nowadays. The talmidim follow their Rabeim, who follow their Rabbeim, most who were not at the conention.
Every Shul in West Gate has a Rav, who people turn to with Shailos. Every neighborhood has a Rav. And a Rav can also mean a Rebbe from Yeshiva. Someone who the Bochur turns to for advice.
DeleteKehilas Westgate has a rav? 49 Radin has a rav? Vershliser has a rav? etc?
DeleteThere is no question that there are some issues which relate to shikul hadaas. Reasonable minds can differ whether it was crucial for masses of Jews to kill a day and march in Washington.
ReplyDeleteWhat concerned people, however, was some of the sevaros which were offered against attending the rally. One argument was that we shouldn't even try to do hishtadlus. That, rightly or wrongly, rubbed people the wrong way. What also rubbed people the wrong way - rightly or wrongly - was the suggestion that being present at a location where hatikva was being sung was yehareg v'al yaavor.
Nobody is above criticism. אין מלך בלא עם. Ultimately, it is the laypeople who decide who are their Gedolim. Some follow the YU gedolim. Some follow the Yeshivish gedolim. Some follow Lubavitch Gedolim. Ultimately, a person should choose Gadolim whose opinions make sense to him and fit with what Chazal said. There's no other method.
Great idea - do away with Kol Korei and everyone should follow their das Torah.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteR'Zelik Epstein would have had a good chuckle
Who are you kiddin'?Who nominates them?
Is there an election?Who gets to be choosing?
What about Meretz?
ReplyDeleteHave we reached the point that Rav Chaim Sarna z"l predicted that the time is coming(paraphrase)that the only that gadol is going to mean is that he wears hoizen?
a.Who started the present fire?Those or their families who now spent their life coveting those inside positions?
ReplyDeleteb.He is a visitor & misses the system
c.The situation is far worse than "minor"
d.60 years ago, the attacks were coming from far different sources than now.
d.We tried your way for a few decades now .The recent record has't been as pretty in comparison with the past.
e.On the contrary when the tzibbur refused to heed (eg Corzine,etc.) just about everybody grudgingly concurred after the fact, even if/when grudgingly, that They were on target better than the supposed establishment manhigim
f. Claiming that our system practicing the same thing as the past even if it were somehow so- at best it is a Kaletet (robotic tape recorder)
at worst a sign of frozen system incapable of advancing to tachlis suffering from collective wear & tear
Many of those eg opposing Schnall have longer experience of devotion to the klal' than all the those who backed him combined .They are ignored for less than altruistic basis.
They have volumes of mesiras nefesh & vision
It was davka for these that
R Shnuer Kotler held that a group of klohr Bnei Torah have the din of Gadol
Acc. to them, how?
guess all of the above are Rabbonim gedoilim with no followers or kehilla. Thus their unshakable "DAAS TAIREH" gets posted here (no where else).
ReplyDeleteNebach.
Playing with fire?nu, but the alternative will end up being worse
ReplyDeleteFor V'yema'en & youth he agrees a new approach is direly needed. The traditional system & those considered to be in charge have been left behind.So follow that through.
ReplyDeleteShall we all extrapolate well beyond ?