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Wednesday, May 31, 2023
Elevating the Youngeleit Through Adirei Event
By Reb Gershon Ribner
Elevating the youngeleit above uncertainty through Adirei event
The HARDEST thing for the yungeleit in Lakewood, is the “ANIYUS B’MAKOM ASHIRUS”. It’s one thing to not have an extra dollar for even basic food, but it’s a whole lot worse and eats a person up (no pun intended), when there’s so many other yungeleit, or so called “yeshiva guys who’ve made some money”, and mixed in with that, the many yungeleit who do not live simple at all and who have comfortable parents and in-laws, and there’s more than enough of those to make it all feel for the yungerman who doesn’t have an extra dollar and wants to feel good that he’s doing it for learning, but instead, it hits him in the face, that “everyone else” yeshivish, are not suffering like he is. This makes a Yugerman feel jealous, angry, and strips him off all feelings of “shtoltz”. I would say 2/3 of yungeleit are affected by this and I’m being conservative with that number, because it’s probably a lot more, to different levels. I don’t have any solutions, and I don’t think there is that ONE solution. All I can say is, is that in todays day in age, more than ever before, building close relationships, whether with a spouse, friend, family member, or Therapist, where one feels comfortable to unleash their inner feelings and pour it all out, is the only way to combat the outside influences that are eating us up literally. I would love to hear feedback. Thanks.
The solution is that he should have a kesher to someone who reminds him why he chose his path in life. Being thrown in to BMG where you can spend years with no one other than your chavrusa who knows you exist, is the problem.
Great point the problem goes beyond the walls of yeshiva but in Lakewood you have mixed developments with people pushing and living with higher standards and simple bnei Torah live among them
whats really needed is rebbi positions for the many yungeleit whom are ready for the next stage in their avodas hashem & want to teach torah and derive a level of sipuk from preparing shiur & giving over to talmidim, does anyone have an answer ?
family comfort positions Get rid of them The sure road to community mediocrity America was so successful it's original half century because it largely was without them The same grandparents who wouldn't have had a chance to amount to much in old countries, managing to benefit enormously from that earlier free for all, now their families pull up the ladders & circle their wagons holding off allowing others to get up there-unless they marry in. Chayecha Kodmim & other alibi shtus
What a complainer. Nobody is stopping you from doing anything you want... starting you own business, starting your own Yeshiva... etc. If you are the best man for the job, you will be successful. America is still the land of equal opportunity for all. Go do what your grandparents did and make something of yourself, instead of being farbissen your whole life.
Mr. Cohen, you are not telling the truth. Most Rabbanus jobs have nothing to do with family. Most younger shtellers have nothing to do with family (7-11th grade). Anyone can open a Yeshiva, and if he has something to sell, the customers will come. And if he has nothing to sell, they won't. We are b"h not chassidim.
There are many ways of uplifting Yungeleit, without fanfare, without sheker, without the opposite of Tznius. 1. If smaller Kollelim would be popular, the Rosh Kollel can keep an eye on the yungeleit. He can show a Yungerman how much he is appreciated. Not with a condescending pat on the back, not by making a big noise and tumult, but by respecting his opinion, encouraging him to write and publish his Torah or to give Chaburos, and generally treating his issues as important. 2. In general, telling people, “You are so choshuv” is condescending and insulting. The Yungeleit who are ‘placed on a pedestal’ are being treated like babies. They often don’t recognize their own feelings and suppress them. But deep down, this ma’amad degrades them and makes them feel worse. By not making these events, we can show much more respect for Yungeleit. 3. Even those who find themselves in the vast marketplace called BMG, can be shown that their issues are important. When, for years, we were told that $320 is the value of a Yungerman, they are being told that their learning is not too important. Moreover, when someone in charge announces that ‘no Yungerman ever went to learning for lack of money’, every single Yungerman is being slapped in the face. They are being told that the issues that trouble them are unimportant. When I was in BMG, I heard this daily from the statements and actions of the Hanhala. When Yungeleit made a fuss against something in town, one of the choshuvest yungeleit in Yeshiva (today a Rosh Yeshiva) went to someone in charge, and he was told that the Yungeleit that are against the Yeshiva’s plans are all ‘son’ei Torah’. No more and no less! That is the zilzul that has to be stopped. Adding to the Kollel check was the most beautiful expression of kavod Hatorah, and they should keep up these things. Maybe deliver (not make them pick up) cases of free items for Yomim Tovim to each Yungerman. Maybe organize the parking lot where the yungerman’s time is considered the most valuable item. Maybe arrange subsidized babysitters and playgroups that operate on a Kollel schedule. Maybe open Batei Medrashim in areas closer to where the Yungeleit live, so they don’t have to sit in traffic for no reason. 4. A Rav in a Shul, who has a mix of mispalelim, is in a special position to elevate Yungeleit. He doesn’t have to sign on to Adirei Hatorah. He can identify those Yungeleit that have talents, and help them express them. One can say a daily Shiur to the baalebatim, one can say a weekly shiur. Another can organize the bochurim over Friday/Shabbos and Bein Hazmanim, another can make a Chevra with the younger children. Each according to their abilities. The Rav should know that his own position will not only not suffer, but it will also only be enhanced when he focuses on such things. Choshuve aliyos and kibudim are nice, but surface-deep. Give them the real ability to shine, and they will. Even discussing divrei Halacha with the Yungeleit, and showing real respect for their opinion (let’s face it – some of them can learn as well as the Rav. Even those that cannot, still have something to add to the conversation) can work wonders for them.
All of these are ways to do things that have no sheker, no fanfare, and no concerts. No bittul Torah is necessary, and the expenses are much lower.
With all due respect to r Gershon and fully recognising his gadlus betorah - unfortunately it’s not realistic to expect of him to be speaking without negius to his illustrious family. He’s simply doing the best he can to present an argument in support of the event - I highly doubt he believes that there’s any point in this other than as a fundraising event.
What's wrong with a fundraising event? Who would begrudge them a fundraising event? Why can't they bill it as such? Unlike commenters here on Hefkervelt, Bnei Torah have no problem with fundraisers. Money is not evil and money is necessary to keep life going. Fundraising to pay Yungeleit a Kollel check is an acceptable thing to do. Why the need to hide it behind something else?
I’m not disagreeing with Rabbi Ribner but why the focus on yungerleit? What about bochurim? Why no event to honor them? They are for the most part learning more hours every day than the average yungerman, they are living a far more simple lifestyle with much mesirus nefesh for Torah particularly if they are in a dorm , they have the same worries about future parnosah as yungerleit, the bochurim who aren’t top tier in learning face far more peer pressure and feelings of inadequacy than a yungeman. Why no event to honor them?
I always enjoy Rav Ribner's perspective. A few points I hope he addresses in future sessions: 1. For a Yeshiva built on storied Mesorah - how does this "new" phenomenon fit in 2. I believe this "maamad" was conceived by a marketing company (Pivot/Shloimy Steinmetz) who coined the term "Adirei HaTorah" and is a "balebatim led" initiative. Is this not opening the door to future "balebatim led initiatives" involving the participation of our Yungerleit?
If instead of giving 6k extra to yungerleit to pass on to their landlords someone woulod sponser new communites driving distance from NY/NJ(the cost being school subsidies at a far lower cost then even this single party on Sunday)it would give yngerleit a feeling of place, meaning, and avoid the problems of the previous commentors of the affect of the afluence in Lakewood. I doubt a single yungerman learned a single minute longer becuase of the extra money, which just gives an excuse for playgroups, landlords etc, to jack up pricing. Truth is, none of the powers that be care, while judging from the comments plenty of others do.
The truth of course is, that prices increased all over the world, not just in Lakewood and not just in America. So it's not Adirei Hatorah's fault and not Biden's fault.
You can just move a bit further out in the surrounding communities... but for some reason people would rather mortgage their life savings so that they can have a shul next door instead of walking 15 minutes.
Anything close to Lakewood and NYC is too expensive . Peopke have yried to make communities a few hours away but moody wants to go. Seems like everybody has the money to buy million dollar homes and they want to be in middle of everything.
We know economics. We just woukd think that of these are bnei tirah who can't afford the expensive housing here ,that they would be agreeable to move to new torah communities 2 to 3 hours away which people would create if there was a demand . Since they don't, it just seems like money is no problem.
Chabad did it with Kingston, PA with hundreds of families there who moved from CH, groceries, shuls. Housing costs of 400k vs 800k(or 1.3 million in Lakewood proper)will be the biggest difference if people stay in learning as for newly marrieds(and their parents that have multiple kids coming up)the possibility of living on a BMG multiple year younger man potential salary as was done previously is hopeless. It wasn’t 3 years ago, it is now, even with the extra 6k a year. Bobov did it with linden on a smaller scale and it exploded and Okeechobee Florida, far from families already has hundreds of chassidim. It’ll happen one day, if BMG is smart they would get into it or miss the boat. In a new growing community, yungerleit as well as baalei battim will find the meaning Rabbi Ribner is talking about as the issue is that BMG as a Yeshiva is too big for anyone to have an identity.
Why do yungeleit need to be elevated? Explain the point of adirei hatorah in the first place… besides fundraising.
ReplyDeleteI had the same question. I am not a cynic by any means. I simply cannot wrap my head around the purpose of this.
DeleteThe HARDEST thing for the yungeleit in Lakewood, is the “ANIYUS B’MAKOM ASHIRUS”. It’s one thing to not have an extra dollar for even basic food, but it’s a whole lot worse and eats a person up (no pun intended), when there’s so many other yungeleit, or so called “yeshiva guys who’ve made some money”, and mixed in with that, the many yungeleit who do not live simple at all and who have comfortable parents and in-laws, and there’s more than enough of those to make it all feel for the yungerman who doesn’t have an extra dollar and wants to feel good that he’s doing it for learning, but instead, it hits him in the face, that “everyone else” yeshivish, are not suffering like he is. This makes a Yugerman feel jealous, angry, and strips him off all feelings of “shtoltz”. I would say 2/3 of yungeleit are affected by this and I’m being conservative with that number, because it’s probably a lot more, to different levels.
DeleteI don’t have any solutions, and I don’t think there is that ONE solution.
All I can say is, is that in todays day in age, more than ever before, building close relationships, whether with a spouse, friend, family member, or Therapist, where one feels comfortable to unleash their inner feelings and pour it all out, is the only way to combat the outside influences that are eating us up literally.
I would love to hear feedback. Thanks.
The solution is that he should have a kesher to someone who reminds him why he chose his path in life. Being thrown in to BMG where you can spend years with no one other than your chavrusa who knows you exist, is the problem.
DeleteGreat point the problem goes beyond the walls of yeshiva but in Lakewood you have mixed developments with people pushing and living with higher standards and simple bnei Torah live among them
DeleteClearly many people here commenting here did not listen to the whole clip!
Deletewhats really needed is rebbi positions for the many yungeleit whom are ready for the next stage in their avodas hashem & want to teach torah and derive a level of sipuk from preparing shiur & giving over to talmidim, does anyone have an answer ?
ReplyDeletefamily comfort positions
DeleteGet rid of them
The sure road to community mediocrity
America was so successful it's original half century because it largely was without them
The same grandparents who wouldn't have had a chance to amount to much in old countries, managing to benefit enormously from that earlier free for all, now their families pull up the ladders & circle their wagons holding off allowing others to get up there-unless they marry in.
Chayecha Kodmim & other alibi shtus
What a complainer. Nobody is stopping you from doing anything you want... starting you own business, starting your own Yeshiva... etc. If you are the best man for the job, you will be successful. America is still the land of equal opportunity for all. Go do what your grandparents did and make something of yourself, instead of being farbissen your whole life.
DeleteMr. Cohen, you are not telling the truth. Most Rabbanus jobs have nothing to do with family. Most younger shtellers have nothing to do with family (7-11th grade). Anyone can open a Yeshiva, and if he has something to sell, the customers will come. And if he has nothing to sell, they won't.
DeleteWe are b"h not chassidim.
There are many ways of uplifting Yungeleit, without fanfare, without sheker, without the opposite of Tznius.
ReplyDelete1. If smaller Kollelim would be popular, the Rosh Kollel can keep an eye on the yungeleit. He can show a Yungerman how much he is appreciated. Not with a condescending pat on the back, not by making a big noise and tumult, but by respecting his opinion, encouraging him to write and publish his Torah or to give Chaburos, and generally treating his issues as important.
2. In general, telling people, “You are so choshuv” is condescending and insulting. The Yungeleit who are ‘placed on a pedestal’ are being treated like babies. They often don’t recognize their own feelings and suppress them. But deep down, this ma’amad degrades them and makes them feel worse. By not making these events, we can show much more respect for Yungeleit.
3. Even those who find themselves in the vast marketplace called BMG, can be shown that their issues are important. When, for years, we were told that $320 is the value of a Yungerman, they are being told that their learning is not too important. Moreover, when someone in charge announces that ‘no Yungerman ever went to learning for lack of money’, every single Yungerman is being slapped in the face. They are being told that the issues that trouble them are unimportant. When I was in BMG, I heard this daily from the statements and actions of the Hanhala. When Yungeleit made a fuss against something in town, one of the choshuvest yungeleit in Yeshiva (today a Rosh Yeshiva) went to someone in charge, and he was told that the Yungeleit that are against the Yeshiva’s plans are all ‘son’ei Torah’. No more and no less! That is the zilzul that has to be stopped. Adding to the Kollel check was the most beautiful expression of kavod Hatorah, and they should keep up these things. Maybe deliver (not make them pick up) cases of free items for Yomim Tovim to each Yungerman. Maybe organize the parking lot where the yungerman’s time is considered the most valuable item. Maybe arrange subsidized babysitters and playgroups that operate on a Kollel schedule. Maybe open Batei Medrashim in areas closer to where the Yungeleit live, so they don’t have to sit in traffic for no reason.
4. A Rav in a Shul, who has a mix of mispalelim, is in a special position to elevate Yungeleit. He doesn’t have to sign on to Adirei Hatorah. He can identify those Yungeleit that have talents, and help them express them. One can say a daily Shiur to the baalebatim, one can say a weekly shiur. Another can organize the bochurim over Friday/Shabbos and Bein Hazmanim, another can make a Chevra with the younger children. Each according to their abilities. The Rav should know that his own position will not only not suffer, but it will also only be enhanced when he focuses on such things. Choshuve aliyos and kibudim are nice, but surface-deep. Give them the real ability to shine, and they will. Even discussing divrei Halacha with the Yungeleit, and showing real respect for their opinion (let’s face it – some of them can learn as well as the Rav. Even those that cannot, still have something to add to the conversation) can work wonders for them.
All of these are ways to do things that have no sheker, no fanfare, and no concerts. No bittul Torah is necessary, and the expenses are much lower.
I'm a yungerman and the best way to show respect is to serve good food. Looking forward to good food Sunday night
DeleteThen you should be elsewhere
DeleteWow powerful words
Deleteright on everything
I would like to talk to you about my yungerlier project
Yakov berger please email me a1236135@gmail.com tnx
With all due respect to r Gershon and fully recognising his gadlus betorah - unfortunately it’s not realistic to expect of him to be speaking without negius to his illustrious family. He’s simply doing the best he can to present an argument in support of the event - I highly doubt he believes that there’s any point in this other than as a fundraising event.
DeleteWhat's wrong with a fundraising event? Who would begrudge them a fundraising event? Why can't they bill it as such?
DeleteUnlike commenters here on Hefkervelt, Bnei Torah have no problem with fundraisers. Money is not evil and money is necessary to keep life going. Fundraising to pay Yungeleit a Kollel check is an acceptable thing to do. Why the need to hide it behind something else?
How about stop & reasses?
ReplyDeleteDo we want to keep pretending we are getting better while furthering along fienshmek mediocrity
The Definition of insanity
I’m not disagreeing with Rabbi Ribner but why the focus on yungerleit? What about bochurim? Why no event to honor them? They are for the most part learning more hours every day than the average yungerman, they are living a far more simple lifestyle with much mesirus nefesh for Torah particularly if they are in a dorm , they have the same worries about future parnosah as yungerleit, the bochurim who aren’t top tier in learning face far more peer pressure and feelings of inadequacy than a yungeman. Why no event to honor them?
ReplyDeleteIt’s meant people learning the long haul - listen to the clip
DeleteI always enjoy Rav Ribner's perspective.
ReplyDeleteA few points I hope he addresses in future sessions:
1. For a Yeshiva built on storied Mesorah - how does this "new" phenomenon fit in
2. I believe this "maamad" was conceived by a marketing company (Pivot/Shloimy Steinmetz) who coined the term "Adirei HaTorah" and is a "balebatim led" initiative.
Is this not opening the door to future "balebatim led initiatives" involving the participation of our Yungerleit?
If instead of giving 6k extra to yungerleit to pass on to their landlords someone woulod sponser new communites driving distance from NY/NJ(the cost being school subsidies at a far lower cost then even this single party on Sunday)it would give yngerleit a feeling of place, meaning, and avoid the problems of the previous commentors of the affect of the afluence in Lakewood.
ReplyDeleteI doubt a single yungerman learned a single minute longer becuase of the extra money, which just gives an excuse for playgroups, landlords etc, to jack up pricing.
Truth is, none of the powers that be care, while judging from the comments plenty of others do.
I love your economics lesson.
DeleteThe truth of course is, that prices increased all over the world, not just in Lakewood and not just in America. So it's not Adirei Hatorah's fault and not Biden's fault.
Yeah 6k gets you very far - everyone raising their prices - you can thank Covid
DeleteYou can just move a bit further out in the surrounding communities... but for some reason people would rather mortgage their life savings so that they can have a shul next door instead of walking 15 minutes.
DeleteAnything close to Lakewood and NYC is too expensive . Peopke have yried to make communities a few hours away but moody wants to go. Seems like everybody has the money to buy million dollar homes and they want to be in middle of everything.
ReplyDeleteEconomics 101 or Economics Alef Bais:
ReplyDeletePrices are controlled by supply and demand.
Not by if you have money to pay for it or not.
Such a dinosaur you are
DeleteWill get skewed
DeleteVarious sectors serve exclusive clientele only, though there is far larger demand
We know economics. We just woukd think that of these are bnei tirah who can't afford the expensive housing here ,that they would be agreeable to move to new torah communities 2 to 3 hours away which people would create if there was a demand . Since they don't, it just seems like money is no problem.
ReplyDeleteIf there was a big demand for those far away communities they wouldn't e cheap anymore
DeleteChabad did it with Kingston, PA with hundreds of families there who moved from CH, groceries, shuls.
DeleteHousing costs of 400k vs 800k(or 1.3 million in Lakewood proper)will be the biggest difference if people stay in learning as for newly marrieds(and their parents that have multiple kids coming up)the possibility of living on a BMG multiple year younger man potential salary as was done previously is hopeless.
It wasn’t 3 years ago, it is now, even with the extra 6k a year.
Bobov did it with linden on a smaller scale and it exploded and Okeechobee Florida, far from families already has hundreds of chassidim.
It’ll happen one day, if BMG is smart they would get into it or miss the boat.
In a new growing community, yungerleit as well as baalei battim will find the meaning Rabbi Ribner is talking about as the issue is that BMG as a Yeshiva is too big for anyone to have an identity.