Article authored by Harav Aharon Feldman shlita R"Y Ner Yisrael Baltimore. It appeared in a recent issue of diologue magazine here. The R"Y explains in great detail the danger falshoods and attempts by Eretz hakodesh to persuade the charedi public to vote for it. The charedi public must do its utmost to uproot this chilul hashem from its midst and refrain en mass from voting in the next WZO elections. See pages 22- 24 regarding the opinions of Rav Chaim Kanievsky zatzal and YBL"C Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky shlita
"From its inception until today, Eretz Hakodesh’s campaign to enlist the support of Chareidi Jewry has been accompanied by a very disturbing phenomenon: the dissemination of numerous partial or complete untruths and factual distortions intended to shape public opinion about Eretz Hakodesh and the permissibility of voting for it. It began with its founder claiming in the frum press that “Eretz Hakodesh has the backing of numerous rabbanim, ..
"During the WZO election campaign in 2020, the founder of Eretz Hakodesh twice approached Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, the senior Rosh Hayeshiva in North America, to give his support to the group, which the Rosh Yeshiva declined to do. Rav Shmuel confirmed his opposition to Eretz Hakodesh in a meeting at his home in 2020, which the Lakewood Rosh Hayeshiva, Rav
Malkiel Kotler, and the author of this article attended.
'For all intents and purposes, there was no written response forthcoming from Rav Chaim at all. Once this became apparent, Rav Kamenetsky discounted the veracity of the claim of Rav Chaim’s support. Rather than allow ourselves to be caught up in the web of innuendo and
untruths being spun by Eretz Hakodesh around Rav Chaim’s position on the WZO, we ought to speak openly and honestly about that which we all know—who Rav Chaim was and what he believed and stood for his entire life. And in that spirit, we must ask: Is it logical to believe that Rav Chaim was prepared to permit that which gedoley olam, including his uncle, the Chazon Ish and father-in-law, Rav Elyashiv, prohibited"....
Let's not forget about lakewdscooper and other Jewish media streaming the chol hamoed concerts organized by eretz hakodesh on their homepages
ReplyDelete"Eretz Hakodesh has never once acknowledged, let alone addressed, the unanimous daas Torah and psak halacha which for well over a century has prohibited collaboration with the WZO."
ReplyDeleteDoes this include Shas, which joined the WZO under Rav Ovadia's instructions? How are Rav Feldman's words not "trivializing and obfuscating" the record here as well? Does his daas Torah not count?
Rav Elyashiv and the gedolim at the time came out very strongly against Shas at the time that was the mesorah and the status quo. It was one of the last letters Rav Elyashiv wrote we go by that mesorah.
DeleteAnon 9:53, I'm not saying they didn't. But if a gadol of Rav Ovadia's stature says that something is muttar, then it is clearly wrong to say that daas Torah is "unanimous" against it. This reminds me of people who will go out of their way to deny the fact that Rav Moshe permitted cholov stam. Say he was in the minority, most others disagreed, fine. But if your position can't survive admitting that even a minority of gedolim permitted something then it's a sign of its weakness.
DeleteThere is no such letter from Rav Elyashiv against Shas for joining the WZO.
DeleteThere was an article written in the Yated, that people claimed was written by command of Rav Elyashiv. But people have been making up stuff in the name of Rav Elyashiv since time immemorial.
בהוראת רבותינו מרנן גדולי ישראל שליט"א, נצטווה 'יתד נאמן' להביע את מחאת היהדות הנאמנה נגד ההחלטה של תנועת ש"ס להצטרף למוסדות ההסתדרות הציונית", , "ההחלטה חסרת התקדים מבטאת הפניית עורף למוסכמות בסיסיות ויסודיות של היהדות החרדית במאה השנים האחרונות".
DeleteIt's funny how you claim people made up stuff in Rav Elyashivs name which never happened since he was lucid until he was nifter yet you discredit all who say that about Reb Chaim which was said so by his own children
As you so accurately quote Anon 5:40, Rav Elyashiv did not write a letter at all. An article was written in the Yated, purporting to quote anonymous מרנן גדולי ישראל שליט"א. That is not a letter and not from Rav Elyashiv. And people have been making things up in his name before Reb Chaim was a household name. You are obviously too young to remember. Rav Elyashiv used to tell everyone not to trust anything in his name.
DeleteKeep trying to spin it ain't gonna work. Rav Elyashiv instructed the yated to do so. No one at the time denied it. Shas tried to defend itself they never claimed that perhaps Rav Elyashiv did not instruct the yated to write it. This is from Wikipedia
DeleteIn 2010 rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv published a letter criticizing the Shas Party for joining the WZO. He wrote that the Party "is turning its back on the basics of Charedi Jewry of the past hundred years. In the words of Gedolei Yisroel: 'Zu Neveilah she’ein kamosa'." He compared this move to the decision of the Mizrachi movement to join the WZO [over one hundred years ago] which was the deciding factor in their separation from "authentic Torah Judaism."
And again, no letter. So 9:53 'misspoke'.
DeleteAnd you have no idea if Rav Elyashiv 'instructed' anything. Eitz have their own version of Rav Elyashiv that does not match everyone else's.
Wikipedia is not a real source and they don't quote an actual source for this 'letter'. Because it does not exist. But see the interview with Rav Mazuz about the topic from the time. Extremely enlightening.
The Jewish magazines were all in on this, remember how trief all the glossy magazines are.
ReplyDeleteThe managing editor of the publication where this article from Rabbi Feldman's appeared and a contributing editor and former weekly columnist for one of the major "glossy magazines" which supporter voted in the WZO elections happens to be the same person.
DeleteEretz Hakodesh has never once acknowledged, let alone addressed, the unanimous daas Torah and psak halacha which for well over a century has prohibited collaboration with the WZO.
ReplyDeleteWhy would they? Such a unanimous daas Torah and psak halacha doesn't really exist. Can anyone provide a link to it? Don't tell me specific Gedolim or groups who opposed collaboration with the WZO at specific times who would presumably (but not certainly) feel the same way today. Rabbi Feldman claiming unanimous daas Torah and psak halacha for well over a century. If it were really so unanimous why is Rabbi Feldman from the lone voices even in the Chardei world to make a major deal over voting in WZO elections
He is not the lone voice he is represented by all the gedolei rosehi yeshiva from today all the way back to the chofetz chaim and more. This new attempt to rewrite history is part of the campaign by those who are trying to justify this chilul shem shamayim including the charedi media which includs the yated Ami mishpacha and the filthy shmutz frum news websites who allow eretz hakodesh advertising in their newspapers and media
DeleteHe is not the lone voice... This is basically just screaming "we represent all of authentic Judaism" A convincing argument it isn't. When the other Rosey Yeshiva will say Rabbi Feldman in his war against Eretz Hakodesh represents them I'll believe it. Till then who appointed you to speak for them and make such claims?
DeleteDidn't R Gershon Edeilshtein come out in support?
ReplyDeletejust to set the record strait.
ReplyDeleteall גדולי אר"י were and are opposed till this day! anyone claiming otherwise is completely ignorant of how the delegates are elected to the WZO in palestein/Israel
proof is that both the degel hatorah and the agudas yisroel party factions do not accept those mandates which are theirs. they are therefore instead alocated to our enemies.
so to say that anyone in אר"י is not apposed to this then קו"ח בן בנו של קו"ח he would hold that they should not refuse seat which they already won.
it's just so frustrating arguing with slow Ignorami
People are asking for names, and the answer is 'all'. Not one name, not one link. Just a generic 'all'.
ReplyDeleteWho is the ignorami?
The Talmid Chacham of Lakewood told me that he voted for Eretz Hakodesh.
Who are you calling ignorami?
DeleteALL WHO EVER GAVE AND THOSE WHO CURRENTLY GIVE DIRECTION TO THE DEGEL AND AGUDA PARTY!
DeleteWHAT'S SO HARD TO COMPREHEND? FOR HEAVENS SAKE! (NO PUN INTENDED)
Too many agendas going on!
ReplyDeleteHead of eretz hakodesh claimed many gedolim supporters, but when pressed he wont name any, smells like a big fraud. It doesn't take much to understand which side can claim status quo, and which side needs to show something real to be legitimate. And they've showed nothing, besides smoke and mirrors.
ReplyDeleteDialogue is a balanced quartely
ReplyDeleteWait until the sincere (even if misguided) leaders of EH proffer a cogent response before everyone spews their own disguised opinions as agendas
They wont, the campaign was intentional deceptive, they had no real charedi backing, but considering they are religious zionists, why would they care, they believe in the wzo's mission.
DeleteBeing that Rabbi Feldman is 50% of the rabbinic board of Dialogue it isn't the place for Eretz Hakodesh to write on their own behalf
DeleteI agree that being part of a Zionist organization is definitely against all the previous Gedolim. But we need to be honest. Having a Haredi minister in the zionist government and also sitting as the deputy speaker of the Knesset and running the show and hugging and kissing an openly LGBT Speaker, is certainly also against everything the previous gedolim stood for. We have come very far left from when the Chazon Ish was matir being part of the knesset to save yidishkeit , to today openly running committtes ,being speaker for a day ,running ministries ,looking away from open chill shabbos sanctioned by the coalition that you are a minister in . In our day ,no self respecting person would think of walking into the knesset building . But today yeshiva bochrim go to the gallery and young frum hidden have no problem going there. We have lost our sensitivity to what chiloni zionism really stands for . In reality it's not much worse to be oart of Eretz Hakodesh than it is to he a minister in the govt. 20 years back no frum yid ever imagined being a minister . The heter was just to support the coalition, not to be an active minister.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you the remember about 15 years ago rav eliyashiv said in shiur one may not walk into the Knesset building. Just because people are doing it, doesn't make it ok.
DeleteThis article is not completely accurate.
ReplyDeleteHe writes that Reb Elchanan forbade the Aguda from joining the Va'ad Le'umi. His source is someone who was barely barmitzvah when his grandfather passed away, yet was told 'many times' by his grandfather this psak. But the main mistake is that the Chazon Ish has clear letters disagreeing with Reb Elchonon. He is trying to establish a consensus by ignoring the dissenting opinions. That is unfair.
He then quotes a story claiming that it is better for Yidden to die than to join WZO, sourced by a notoriously unreliable book. Especially when we consider that Reb Aaron famously disagreed and said that he would join anyone to save lives during the Holocaust.
Then he quotes Rav Elyashiv, when in reality it is just a newspaper article. He hints that money is the entire motive here when many other matters are at stake.
Agree entirely with commenter @7:04 PM. It is entirely unclear as to whether previous policies regarding Chareidim vs. Zionism still apply. Beyond that, there are terrorists launching missiles randomly into EY, seeking to kill as many Jews as they can, and countries that openly advocate for the annihilation of EY. The Iranians are going for the atomic bomb. It is hard to see how rigid doctrinal opposition to ‘the Tziyoinim’ is the issue right now. No one opposed Zionism more than Rav Weissmandl zt’l, but he worked with the local Zionist reps in Slovakia when he had to, and admired them for their courage and their willingness to follow his lead. (World Zionism was an entirely different story.). Today in EY (in some instances vast) majorities of Jews light Shabbos candles, refrain from Chometz, make a Seder, go to shul, etc - the stark divide the drum media like to portray is not the reality. In many ways we have won. More Torah is being learned in EY possibly than anytime in history. I like Rabbi Feldman, and in principal many of his points are well taken. But the reality of the danger we all collectively face makes cooperation in limited ways a necessary path.
ReplyDeleteWe have won?
Deletefor empty superficial externals?
As if that's what the previous secularists mainly really cared about!
Check with Anon 5:50 PM
Get with the program
Correction - meant to say I agree w/commenter at 5:50.
ReplyDeleteWe have won bc of the huge grassroots effort we have put in and continue to put in to be mekarev the Israeli public. There’s a reason why the Zionist ideologues are fewer and less strident - it’s because we have made inroads and will continue to do so.
ReplyDeleteLike Eretz H
DeleteWe have regular full-color signs hanging all over the place against Eretz Hakodesh. Who pays for all of this? Whose agenda is it? Who cares so much?
ReplyDeleteHe grants no credence to any dissenting opinion. 'A leading RY in England' somehow remains nameless, even though the author does not come close to his league in learning.
ReplyDeleteReb Avraham Yehoshua tried to persuade this Talmid Chacham to change his mind, but he refused to budge. And he did not rely on Rabbi Kamenetzky at all. Ask him.
"Ask him"
DeleteUm, you don't mention a name. הרוצה לשקר ירחיק עדותו
Why aren't you mentioning who we should ask.