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Tuesday, May 9, 2023
Hashkafa Q&A Lag Baomer
Lag Baomer celebrations: Are Yeshivaliet being swept in by the Chasidim
Identifying alternate forms of Missionizing (previous)
Although Reb Gershon is right that there are very limited Kosher outlets, however my Rosh Hayeshiva strongly discouraged these outlets and preferred that bochurim play ball. Because no one would ever think he is doing "ruchniyes" by playing ball, and as he gets older will never play ball on account of learning. However by makin an eisek out of Lag B'omer will teach the boys that it is important, and then don't be surprised when he gets older he will be mevatel Torah to go to Miron. It is far more dangerous to our litvishe mesorah of V'Talmud Torah keneged Kulam. Lets us not forget when Rav Chaim Visoker was asked what they did Lag B'Omer in the Mir he responded "mir hoben getzelted sefirah"
In the Mir they didn't play ball or approve of such recreation either. Rav Chatzkel gave a major smooz when he found out that a few American and French bochurim had gone rowing during bein hasedorim.
Someone once told a litvishe adam gadol (I would rather not say who) that the chassidim won! He responded ניין ניין, מיר זענען נאר אין גלות ביי זיי True of course, but its a bittere galus
That is the logic the Modern Orthodox crowd uses to oppose kollel. They also say look how Chazal spoke about what a mitzvah it is to learn a trade and to work and support your family...kollel was not a wide spread practice in klall yisroel for as long anyone can remember ...it has no basis in the known mesora of any community ...therefore it must be not be the right thing
Kollel is not a new fangled idea, it's called limud hatorah, something that we have been doing for thousands of years. In fact, in earlier generations it was common for learned baalei battim to learn for 4-5 hours at night after working. In America this was seen as an impossible scenario so שלא תשתכח תורה מישראל Kollel was established. Dancing around a bonfire or eating food for a particular tzaddik neshama as a segula were definitely unheard in previous years
OMG A Bunch of retarded people! Kudos to R Ribner for facing up to the real world. BTW the Zohar HaKodesh speaks befairush about Hillulah DeRashbi so even if not your Mesorah it's part of our Torah
Um, if the Zohar was authored by Rashbi he couldn't have extolled the virtues of the day of his own Ptirah. Either way, there's no such such Zohar. You either misheard, misread, or completely made it up.
I have no idea whether there is such a Zohar or not but parts of the Zohar were certainly added after the petirah of Rav Shimon Bar Yochai. It mentions amoriam who lived hundreds of years after him. He is still the author despitme minor editing that took place later. Same way Rebbi is the author of Mishnoyis, Ravina and Rav Ashi are the authors of the gemora even though minor editing took place after their petiras as well
Wow we have such bekium in Zohar here that they can state with such confidence "there's no such such Zohar. You either misheard, misread, or completely made it up" I know nothing about the Zohar says but even I know that the Idra Zuta is a part of Zohar (Parsaha Haazinu) that discusses what Rav Shimon Bar Yochai told his talmidim on his day of death. I have no idea whether he spoke about his future yartzeits or not but it is certainly possible that he did.
Lag Ba'omer is not mentioned at all in the Zohar or any connected work. (Not that I'm a huge baki in Zohar, but the people who are beki'im in Zohar are unanimous about this.) The connection of Lag Ba'omer to Rashbi is based on the Kisvei Arizal by R' Chaim Vital.
There is considerable uncertainty as to whether Rashbi was actually niftar on Lag Ba'omer (the Chida in particular was mefakfek about it). The crux of the issue is whether R' Chaim Vital wrote "יום שמת" or "יום שמחת"
If you are not on any government programs, don't ask for tuition discounts etc. and learn a solid three hours a day then you can make a valid argument that your way of life is more correct than being in kollel. Not necessarily correct but valid. If however you barely learn every day and or are on government programs, trying to get tuition discounts etc. don't tell me or yourself that you are living that lifestyle because of what Chazal said about working
If you think of it, anyone who is busy with knocking others or against the tfeilim or emunas tfeiles, is also not focusing on the ikrim. Bottom line, we all can use some retuning of our focus on the ikar. The chazal of keshot atzmechu vachar kach keshot acheirim applies to all of us.
That's not the context of the discussion here. The context here is whether we should allow ourselves to adopt these practices, not criticizing others for doing them.
Although Reb Gershon is right that there are very limited Kosher outlets, however my Rosh Hayeshiva strongly discouraged these outlets and preferred that bochurim play ball. Because no one would ever think he is doing "ruchniyes" by playing ball, and as he gets older will never play ball on account of learning. However by makin an eisek out of Lag B'omer will teach the boys that it is important, and then don't be surprised when he gets older he will be mevatel Torah to go to Miron. It is far more dangerous to our litvishe mesorah of V'Talmud Torah keneged Kulam. Lets us not forget when Rav Chaim Visoker was asked what they did Lag B'Omer in the Mir he responded "mir hoben getzelted sefirah"
ReplyDeleteIn the Mir they didn't play ball or approve of such recreation either. Rav Chatzkel gave a major smooz when he found out that a few American and French bochurim had gone rowing during bein hasedorim.
DeleteSomeone once told a litvishe adam gadol (I would rather not say who) that the chassidim won! He responded ניין ניין, מיר זענען נאר אין גלות ביי זיי
DeleteTrue of course, but its a bittere galus
Beyond that, making a new form of avodas Hashem which has no basis in your mesora is itself a corruption of Yiddishkeit.
ReplyDeleteThat is the logic the Modern Orthodox crowd uses to oppose kollel. They also say look how Chazal spoke about what a mitzvah it is to learn a trade and to work and support your family...kollel was not a wide spread practice in klall yisroel for as long anyone can remember ...it has no basis in the known mesora of any community ...therefore it must be not be the right thing
DeleteKollel is not a new fangled idea, it's called limud hatorah, something that we have been doing for thousands of years. In fact, in earlier generations it was common for learned baalei battim to learn for 4-5 hours at night after working. In America this was seen as an impossible scenario so שלא תשתכח תורה מישראל Kollel was established.
DeleteDancing around a bonfire or eating food for a particular tzaddik neshama as a segula were definitely unheard in previous years
OMG A Bunch of retarded people! Kudos to R Ribner for facing up to the real world. BTW the Zohar HaKodesh speaks befairush about Hillulah DeRashbi so even if not your Mesorah it's part of our Torah
ReplyDeleteI think that you missed RGR's point.
DeleteHe never endorsed it as a good minhag, only as kosher fun. No different than a camp bonfire
Um, if the Zohar was authored by Rashbi he couldn't have extolled the virtues of the day of his own Ptirah.
DeleteEither way, there's no such such Zohar. You either misheard, misread, or completely made it up.
I have no idea whether there is such a Zohar or not but parts of the Zohar were certainly added after the petirah of Rav Shimon Bar Yochai. It mentions amoriam who lived hundreds of years after him. He is still the author despitme minor editing that took place later. Same way Rebbi is the author of Mishnoyis, Ravina and Rav Ashi are the authors of the gemora even though minor editing took place after their petiras as well
DeleteWhere does it say it he was niftar on Lag Bomer?
DeleteWow we have such bekium in Zohar here that they can state with such confidence "there's no such such Zohar. You either misheard, misread, or completely made it up" I know nothing about the Zohar says but even I know that the Idra Zuta is a part of Zohar (Parsaha Haazinu) that discusses what Rav Shimon Bar Yochai told his talmidim on his day of death. I have no idea whether he spoke about his future yartzeits or not but it is certainly possible that he did.
DeleteLag Ba'omer is not mentioned at all in the Zohar or any connected work. (Not that I'm a huge baki in Zohar, but the people who are beki'im in Zohar are unanimous about this.) The connection of Lag Ba'omer to Rashbi is based on the Kisvei Arizal by R' Chaim Vital.
DeleteThere is considerable uncertainty as to whether Rashbi was actually niftar on Lag Ba'omer (the Chida in particular was mefakfek about it). The crux of the issue is whether R' Chaim Vital wrote "יום שמת" or "יום שמחת"
And schools for Girls
ReplyDeleteIE Bais Yaakov is also new . Never done for a thousand years !
Clearly not every new thing is no good .
Was it positive or a negative
DeleteExaggerated.The upper class females always were tutored .It just spread it to the middle
Delete& then lower classes
Nu, so what makes them wrong? They are correct about what chazal say about working.....
ReplyDeletechazal say that anyone who accepts upon himself the yoke of torah has the yoke of derech eretz removed from him. that's what they say about working.
DeleteIf you are not on any government programs, don't ask for tuition discounts etc. and learn a solid three hours a day then you can make a valid argument that your way of life is more correct than being in kollel. Not necessarily correct but valid. If however you barely learn every day and or are on government programs, trying to get tuition discounts etc. don't tell me or yourself that you are living that lifestyle because of what Chazal said about working
DeleteIf you think of it, anyone who is busy with knocking others or against the tfeilim or emunas tfeiles, is also not focusing on the ikrim. Bottom line, we all can use some retuning of our focus on the ikar. The chazal of keshot atzmechu vachar kach keshot acheirim applies to all of us.
ReplyDeleteThat's not the context of the discussion here. The context here is whether we should allow ourselves to adopt these practices, not criticizing others for doing them.
DeletePreach keshot atzmechu vachar kach keshot acheirim to the other sides & enough with their proselytizing
ReplyDelete