The Empty shachris bus
Every morning there are buses riding around mostly empty as they do the shachris route for mesivta boys in Lakewood. Getting up early is always a struggle but the routes that are scheduled are making money for the companies while not fulfilling the purpose which is transporting the boys to school.
Theres no point to expect the bochurim to wake up at 6:30 am when it is not more than a 15 minute drive and sahchris does not start before 7:45 or 8 am.
Bus companies for some reason can't arrange buses at a more practical time.
The result is either parents have to drive the boys or the bochurim end up hitching or missing shachris in yeshiva.
Just to have a route picked up that lines the pockets of others while not having realistic routes is unacceptable.
Due to the inadequate routes, Schools have to either arrange their own vans, parents have to carpool and bochurim are hitching every morning.
The solution would be to have either school buses combine yeshivos and do a few pick ups in specific neighborhoods and drop off at the yeshivos that are next to each other or to have a public bus system utilizing, the Lakewood shuttle (that rides around empty) and drive up and down the main arteries like rt 9, E county line, central ave, Pine/James during the morning and evening so boys can hop on the bus knowing that there's a system to rely on .
Why should in town mesivta bochurim have to worry everyday about getting to and from Yeshiva.
Why don't your boys take a city bus to Yeshiva?
ReplyDeleteOh, I forgot. You escaped from Brooklyn to Lakewood, away from your elderly parents, because you "needed" a six-bathroom house.
Actually the Jackson parents are all BMG yugeleit or alumni. The vast majority have 2 bathroom houses.
DeleteAnon 2:29 - you don't have to suffer in silence. There are solutions for your deep-rooted problems. Just reach out for help - your wife will bless you.
DeleteThat begs the question. Why are they BMG yungeleit? Why couldn't they learn in a Yeshiva near where their parents live, in Brooklyn?
DeleteRav Bik z"l was strongly in favor of yungeleit moving away from their parents to Lakewood.
DeleteIn BP/Wsmbg, people live under their mothers' apron for years, unable to develop.
Rav Bik z"l didn't have access to the data we have now.
Delete1) Chassidim have a lower divorce rate than non-Chassidim. If "developing" causes people to get divorced, I'd prefer to remain undeveloped.
2) Look at all the Dirshu tests. Hundreds of chassidim show up to be tested on thirty blatt Gemara/Rashi every month, some with Gemara Rashi Tosafos. Hardly any Litvaks show up. If developing means losing interest in learning, I'd prefer remaining undeveloped.
1) The divorce claim:
Deletea) There is no proof that the divorce rate is lower among Chassidim than Litvaks. None at all.
b) Divorce rates are meaningless when we know why people stay in marriages. Chassidim are more likely to stay in sad or bad marriages. Why is divorce a bad thing in those cases? Rav Bik knew what was happening under the carpet, and that's why he was sure that children should move away.
2) The Dirshu argument is absolutely right. Interest in learning = taking Dirshu tests. Reb Chaim Ozer was a great guy, but lemaaseh he didn't take Dirshu tests. The only yardstick to 'interest in learning' is Dirshu tests. (In case it wasn't obvious, I am being sarcastic. DIrshu is generally viewed as not a good thing, but because it's better than nothing, nobody but Reb Hillel Zaks spoke against it. Now they're using it as the benchmark of Limud Hatorah?!?!?)
You're an undeveloped ostrich
DeleteKeep your head deep in the sand, you're happier that way
@anon 1:39
DeleteYou clearly don't understand how the burden of proof works. Once I provide evidence of a certain fact (such as the divorce rate: google "The Data on Divorce by Dr. Yitzchak Shechter), you can't respond with a "maybe" argument, without providing your own evidence. Claiming that in SECRET Litvaks have wonderful marriages, without a shred of evidence, doesn't allow you to shift the burden of proof.
If I show that Chassidim take serious tests on 30 blatt a month (please take a Dirshu test one time to realize a) what of accomplishment that is b) the chassidim to litvak ratio) you can't respond with "MAYBE" the Litvaks are actually SECRETLY amazing learners, but they don't want to bother being tested on that learning.
One fine day, some years after the holocaust, someone introduced Chassidim to learning.
DeleteIt didn't take a few years, and they get to be the masters and the benchmark of learning. Sorry, 'burden of proof' aside, you don't get to redefine learning. Dirshu is a nice thing for those who weren't learning anyway. But it is the furthest thing from the absolute standard of learning. Only someone with a college-educated mind can think that Torah is measured in tests.
The data on divorce doesn't tell us anything except about divorce. They may have happy marriages and they may not. We know just as little now as before.
DeleteBut Rav Bick did know, because the problems came to him.
Not because of Litvaks vs. Chassidim, but because they live under their mothers' aprons. There's nothing chassidish about that, just the culture of America today.
So your argument is that the rate of divorce is completely irrelevant to whether a particular community has shalom bayis?
DeleteYour argument about testing is akin to those who say that we should allow those in a particular socioeconomic group to get into an Ivy league school because, hey, the SAT is "furthest thing from the absolute standard of learning."
You have yet to provide a shred of evidence which counters the evidence that I provided.
Welcome to the life of out of towners where parents carpool their boys to Yeshiva every day at 7:30 am.
ReplyDeleteThe point of the article was that something is wrong when thousands of dollars are paid to have empty busses drive through a route where nobody ever comes.
DeleteThe local yeshivos should build dorms its about time. The bochurim get home at 11 at night and have to wake up 630 to catch the bus which they don't go on
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that you cant chose which mesivta to send to and it could be 5 mies away,
ReplyDeleteAlso the class is spread out all over lakewood so a route ends up taking longer
L$TA
ReplyDeleteA city bus is a great idea. Save the school busses for the elementary school kids. My kids don’t get picked up until after 8:30, because the Public school run that is before theirs finishes late, because the mesivta run before that finishes late. If they’d cut out the mesivta run then the school drivers would have an easier schedule.
ReplyDeleteMost or all mesivtas don't have Sunday bussing, Friday afternoon the boys get out 12:30 and the bus isn't available till 1pm so the boys are again hitching or carpooling.
ReplyDeleteThe same is true with elementary school Shacharis. Empty busses. Parents carpooling. Thousands in thr garbage
ReplyDeleteBussing should be a non for profit. Its mostly funded by the government at the expense of the parents. Many early morning busses are running more than 50% empty and there are several that show up to girls high schools before the school is even unlocked (leaving the girls alone outside-rain or shine). There is currently too much money being made off this bussing mess and if that were to change wed be able to afford more busses running on more accurate schedules.
ReplyDeleteThis is right on the mark!! Can people weigh in on this?
DeleteThank for the article. Yes it is a big waste of $ and causes boys to miss the yeshiva davening experience.
ReplyDeleteYes it is a big waste of $. Non practical bus schedules also is the reason the boys miss out on the yeshiva davening experience.
ReplyDeleteEach yeshiva should provide their own transportation and not rely to scnhnor from the incompetent free system. If a boy misses the yeshiva transportation he should stay home for the day. NO HITCHHIKING
ReplyDeleteWhen busing was run by the BOE the askanim would publicly call out the slightest issue and say how bad it was managed, now that unzereh hijacked the non public transportation you don't hear a word from anyone despite the terrible issues of lateness ,safety,no shows and the aid in lieu checks that parents have to beg for and hope that they don't skim off the top.
ReplyDeleteWe need a independent commission and oversight committee over the LSTA
ReplyDeleteParents should be able to submit complaints ananonymously without fear of retribution
What a waste of our tax dollars, no mesivta route should be allowed to get picked up if it starts more than 45 minutes before davening.
ReplyDeleteLet the money go towards vans that the school will arrange
When the LSTA came into power one of the big "fixes" was to tell the Mesivtas to jump in the lake. We will give you bussing for scharis @ 6:30AM, friday no bussing 9th grade early dismissal no busing ..... so they "solved" the bussing issue. All we need is a few more government agencies and some more lakewood city buss and we will be rocking.
ReplyDeleteJackson should think twice before using LSTA.
ReplyDeleteThe askanim keep claiming that there are different laws for district bussing that are not applicable to the LSTA since it is a "private" consortium.
Well are they obsoleted from safety compliance because they are not under the district ?
They should be just as equal to the district provided busing
Why should private school children lose out because someone hijacked their busing rights away from the district
How about all bochurim should have a local yeshiva style minyan in one of the neighborhood botei medrash and than after davening buses will take them to yeshiva. Like this they don't have to get up 630 to catch a bus and they can daven in a yeshiva style minyan with volunteer rebbeim sitting on the mizrach
ReplyDeleteBad governance by elected officials?
Delete"VOLUNTEER REBBEIM"!
Maybe vote for people looking out for you next time. Shoitah
Bad governance?
Delete"VOLUNTEER REBBEIM"!
Maybe vote for people looking out for you next time. Shoitah.
I think they should go to Yeshiva by walking over the new lake bridge.
ReplyDeleteMuch simpler idea. Hand the check to the parents and to the school.
ReplyDeleteRemove the "helpful" negotiations done by elected officials.
The individual parents know much better what is best for them.
Stop letting the government mess things up.
Parents with schools will decide how to get the best for the money.
PSA: The LSTA is not allowed to give the AIL checks to the schools it must be given directly to the parents. Call LSTA and tell them to send you the AIL checks.
ReplyDeleteOnce the school gets a hold of it you have a harder time getting it back once the transportation doesn't work out
I heard the mesivtos do not want to combine routes with other mesivtos. the LSTA wants to combine routes to solve this problem but the mesivtos refused.
ReplyDeleteThe mesivtos have to let the boys mature and trust them to sit on a bis with other boys for a 20 minute ride that's how it was done in Brooklyn and everyone survived
DeleteThis is the best reason for the government to stop deciding the future for each school. Give each school a check, and let them sort it out themselves. If it isn't enough money, they will need to figure it out themselves.
DeleteEven if you dislike how it is,the purpose of gov't is give direction
Deleteespecially when it comes to the kids.
or the country justs becomes an silly banana republic.
The responsibility is on your communities to charge them which path they're supposed to follow.
a lot of mesivta routes arent picked up by LSTA and pple have to pay for a van route
ReplyDeletecan anyone explain what was gained with the LSTA taking over the private school busing if the routes are not picked up and parents have to pay for courtesy while the BOE gives free busing to everyone
ReplyDeleteIf the mesivta know that the boys will get to school a 1\2 hour early if they take the bus maybe they should start Shacris 1\2 hour earlier so everyone will take the bus. Or maybe they should make another incentive so boys will come not just say sit down and do nothing until Shacris
ReplyDeleteThis suggestion is long overdue
ReplyDeleteAnd I was thinking about this a while ago but there might be legal issues if girls or gentile students want rides as well
The busses would be legally compelled to accommodate if their schools are along the route
So that would need to be addressed
Another suggestion would be to make shachris later so the boys wouldn’t have to get up so early
Its sad how many bochurim are just wandering the roads every morning holding their tefillin in the cold standing on street corners waiting for rides.
DeleteThe rebbeim expect them to be there for davening yet they have to fend for themselves to get there.
We are all responsible for this fiasco by letting it get out of hand and not taking action and set up a system that works.
If people are scared to speak out to the bus companies or lsta or rosh mesivtas we have to embolden them and call out any threats of bullying by those in power who people have to come on to
I don't mind at all my son missing the yeshiva minyan. It's torture for him. Every piece of Birkas Krias Shma is not finished off by the chazzan until the chashuveh Rosh Yeshiva finishes till the end then the chazzan first starts his ending. The davening doesn't flow and is therefore tremendously boring for the bachurim who typically don't daven as slow as the Rosh Yeshiva. We need to cut out waiting for the RY to finish every piece. Let him shtell tzu to the pace of the bachrim. Only then will my son run to make the 6:30 bus.
ReplyDeleteThat's on you, genius. You sent him to a place that wasn't right for him and probably forced him in even though they knew that he's not the right type because your uncle once donated a bathroom there. Don't blame the R"Y, his style was established long before your little pisher showed up with his ADHD.
DeleteA huge number of people who went through the Yeshiva system have a problem with Tefilla. Forcing bochurim to sit through long davening without teaching them what they are supposed to be doing breeds resentment. Often, even those who do daven slowly as adults, do it as a 'frumkeit', not as part of Halacha or respect for Tefilla, or kavanna for Tefilla.
DeleteWalk into any shitebel on a weekday shacharis and you will find those people davening quickly with no ta'am.
Either teach them how to daven, or don't torture them for no reason.
Davening is beautiful, each word is precious, and with a little focus, people can find themselves in every tefilla, and uplift their lives. Using it as a torture method is taking a precious diamond to crack nuts.
Days like Behab are very long davening
DeleteOh dear. The madhouse is looking for you everywhere. How'd you get out again?
DeleteThat's true, U would t want my kids with nice Yiddishe long payos to be called Yoelies by the Cheder kids that go with tiny Lubavitcher type payos, or even todays style with not only no payos at all, but with the sides of their heads shaved & big chups, they look like the nazi hitler youth R"L!
ReplyDeleteNever stop taking those meds.
DeleteAvi Schnall was not elected when all this was put in place. Should we give him a chance?
ReplyDeleteIf in general we can put multiple yeshivos on one bus, perhaps we can also combine yeshivos. = there's a reason for individual yeshiva, it's probably better to keep the bussing/transportation that way too.
If we would combine yeshivas' transportation the ones funding might to all across the board including bais yaakovs.
There can be many other solutions that can help out even if not 100%. If there's a true will there's a way.
It's not about a waste of tax dollars. It needs nanagement and accountability.
(Howabout biking again?)
For those suggesting shachris later maybe also suggest a seder limud beforehand.
Nowadays most mesivta boys are home way before 11pm.
By the way many yeshivos have it worked great.
Avi schnall was involved with LSTA from the get go and didn't do anything to address all the problems. He defended it and has major negius. As a matter of fact he should not be allowed to get involved with it now that he was placed in office
DeleteAre we allowed to talk about the insanity of girl schools ending at 11 on fridays?
ReplyDeleteThis morning i counted over 18 boys hitching in the cold holding seforim and tefillin. Why are they schlepping seforim everyday back and forth and why don't they leave their tefilln in yeshiva
ReplyDelete