Tuesday, May 26, 2020

Psak about Mesira


18 comments:

  1. Question
    say You are in a MVA- can you tell police what happened??

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  2. Interesting! Does this psak also go for calling DYFS on parents that have been estranged by our specialty Lakewood “therapists”?

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  3. Vyter someone who doesn’t know how to learn
    This is so no shaychis to our matzav
    If you see a group of “Frum” people who Are driving crazy in the streets no stoping at stop signs a speeding at an alarming rate and you don’t call the
    cops You as a bystander are a shofech damim if some feels that this is the same it’s not mesira
    I know you have been away from the Beis Medrash for a while but you should not be promoting flagrant violators of distancing

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    1. Speeding causes deaths, every person knows that. Social distancing is an abstract theory of stopping a virus. Even if it is a legitimate scientific theory (it is not) , merely not complying, and thus slowing the grand scheme of slowing the virus is not putting anyone particular in danger (if it would then you have no heter to go to the grocery store)!!
      Furthermore, for the theory to work you need most (let's say %90) people to be doing social distancing , which there is anyway. So someone who does not social distance is not even "ruining" the Grand Plan. , Not distancing is simply non compliance with a government mandate. Therefore it is mesirah.

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    2. Social distancing has been practiced for generations as a response to mageifaj it’s just because this is our generations first exposure to this that we all become arm chair experts in the human respiratory system and scholars in infectious disease
      I have no doubt that Rav Chaim Brisker would scoff at the notion that a novice With only the background of the hamodia voice Yated aNd the zeman While although very informative is in any way equal to an expert in medicine
      When schools mandate vaccinations it can be argued and has been argued by Many that this is just following the herd of doctors But we follow it because the experts rightfully should call the shots
      Unless you’re an anti vaxxer this is no different

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  4. Interesting, but as Abe said, this psak is about a non harmful case in which there is time and the possibility of going to beis din. In our case I don’t think this psak would apply. Why doesn’t someone ask r' Chaim Kanievsky about it? “Oh wait, they did way back when the lockdowns first started and he said it’s not a problem. Never mind then, let's not ask him, he gives the wrong answers, we’re not going to ask him again!”

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  5. Please show us where Rav Chaim Gave the psak and btw he also had a minyan in his house straight thru the mageifa do you think he would have let some call the police on him.
    Rav Eliyohu Levin paskened in this specific case of Corona that anyone who is moser on a shul it is regular mesira and you are like a goy. Rav Elya Ber was also very clear about Mesira

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    1. Nice but irrelevant.
      When shuls needed to be closed, we were permitted and obligated to do what is necessary to close them. This has nothing to do with a fight between two people, that should be handled in BD.

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    2. 1) Who decided that Shuls needed to be closed?

      2) Rav Chaim Kanievsky NEVER said or implied that you may do mesira on a Shul that is open. Never! (He only said something in regard to someone who is positive for the plague and was going around irresponsibly and potentially infecting others.)

      3) If you feel that a Shul should be closed down R"L, then the only place to settle your dispute is at a bonafide Beis Din.

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    3. Please have Rav Elya Ber and Rav Eliyahu Levin tell us how this is different than a reckless driver

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    4. They are in the Bais Medrash you can find them there

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    5. I am not CV trying to make these gaonim they know much more than I will ever and are super smart
      However If you want me to buy into the notion that they are able to make a distinction between a reckless minyan and a reckless
      driver I am open to listening
      Just make sure that it’s not a because they said argument make sure it’s really something of substance otherwise the tzibur is incarcerated by vigilantes

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  6. And those rabbanim who didn't go to minyan paskened otherwise. Talking about the fox watching the henhouse.This is the biggest gelechter

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  7. did I miss techiyas hamasim that R Nissim was talking about now?

    in order to abide by this psak which beis din has the authority to enforce social distancing today?

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  8. Some one once described The Ocean County Family court during the reign of Bais Din Vaad Hadayonim as looking Like First Seder in BMG

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    1. Unfortunately that’s the result of “therapists” who don’t know what they’re doing

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  9. The letter is pointing out that mesira exists across the board even simply o an issue of building with local zoning rules. Its not a tzushtell to mesir by corona which the gedolei hposkim said that if you maser you are not counted in a minyan

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  10. its about fighting against shuls at the zoning or planning board instead of going to bais din

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