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Monday, March 17, 2025
Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva Speak Out Against Voting in WZO Elections
Rav Yeruchem Olshin, Rosh Yeshiva of BMG in Lakewood speaks out against Eretz Hakodesh/WZO: "A great rachmonos on anyone who helps them, this is helping reshoim gamurim" "This is Helping Amalek c"v!
Rav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler, Rosh Yeshiva of BMG in Lakewood, was asked about voting for Eretz Hakodesh in the World Zionist Organization (WZO) elections. "All the Gedolei Hador of the past, The Chofetz Chaim, Reb Elchonon, the zaidy Reb Aharon, The Chazon Ish, and in later generations Rav Elyashiv, all the Gedolei Hador and the Gedolei Hador of today all say that it's ossur Nothing got better, if anything it got worse." "You're signing to apikorsus"
Rav Yisroel Neuman shlita
so Rav Chaim Kanevsky, Rav Gershon Edelstein, and Rav Moshe hillel Hirsch aren't Gedolim? Rav Gurwitz? Rav Shmuel Fuerst? Rav Elya Brudny?? At what point do we say that the Rosh Yeshiva choose who is a Gadol based on their Hashkafa alognment and wont align themselves with daas torah! The Torah says to go with the Gadol of your dor, the Aharon, even thugh he says differently than the past. The Chofetz chaim and Rav Elyashib would frequently say differently than gedolim of the past. Otherwise we are like the chasidim of a dead rebbe
There was no letter with Reb Chaims signature in support of voting for Eretz HaKodesh. Rav Aaron Feldman verified with Reb Chaims family that what was claimed to be said in his name was not so,, and he conveyed the same with Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky. Therefore all those who support Eretz Hakodesh based on Reb Chaim have no teeth to stand on. Rav Elya Brudny Rav Moshe Hillel Rav Gershon Edelstein NEVER signed any current letters in support of voting. Rav Avrohom Gurwitz is in England not in the US. and Rav Dov Landau the leader pf Degel HATorah said its assur
1. Please don't include rabbi furest with the others. Let's cut out the lies. 2. Rav gershon was against. 3. Rav moshe hillel against. 4. Rav Shmuel, against, only said if Rav Chaim then I won't argue with him. 5. Rav Chaim being pro is a long discredited rumor.
All those gedolim mentioned that "went different than the past" understood and explained that it's not different. Going different is reform or the like. Let's agree to fight the reform where and when needed if and when permissible.
To see why it's so important, listen to the R"Y. Alternatively can send to ukfortorah@gmail.com or visit https://harehbetzba.com for more info and understanding.
Rabbi Jonathan Guttentag came to Rav Avrohom Gurwicz שליט״א.
As background, Rabbi Guttentag served as a Rav in Manchester for over three decades before being thrown out from his position after taking a firm stance against Bas Mitzvah celebrations on Shabbos and preventing girls from delivering their drashos in front of the Aron Kodesh. Given that the shul was part of the United Synagogue and had a predominantly non-religious membership, his position was particularly controversial.
Later, Rabbi Guttentag was hired by Pesach Lerner.... He approached Rav Avrohom Gurwicz to explain the structure of Eretz Hakodesh and sought his signature on a letter encouraging people to register. He assured Rav Avrohom that registration simply meant registering for Eretz Hakodesh, which would help them being eligible to get larger grants / bigger piece of the pie from the World Zionist Organization (WZO). So it was a win win, no lose situation. He emphasized that there was no voting involved in England—only a cost-free registration process. And he told him that Rav Chaim Kanievsky זצ״ל and Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky supported the initiative. Rav Gurwicz didn't even call / speak to Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky.
Note, that original letter in 5782, was written a few months after Rav Chaim zt'l was already niftar, and Eretz Hakodesh was very careful not to make this letter mefursom back then.
You have to מדייק everything Rav Avrohom Gurwicz writes, he is very מדייק and he just writes there that you should follow the gedolim. He didn't write voting. YWN put up a video of Rav Avrohom Gurwicz signing or writing - but he does not say anything in the video, and you cannot see what he is writing - but you can go visit him in his house any day, and find the same scenario, just go ask anybody that lives in Gateshead, they saw the same thing when they came to his house, and it can be any random thing. Like, I am an anti-vaxxer, and I can easily dig up all the pictures of myself visiting the gedolim, and also make a video of a gadol or Rosh Yeshiva writing. (Do you think a gadol would waste time, all they do is learn and write, they do NOT waste time)
- UK Government Company Information - Eretz Hakodesh UK https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13720964/persons-with-significant-control
Decades ago, one of the Gedolei HaDor told me, 'You can't trust anyone—not even me.' He emphasized that every matter should be documented properly with a shtar and eidim. To underscore this point, he shared a personal story about an experience he had with Rav Yisroel Eliyahu Weintraub זצ״ל, illustrating the importance of written records.
Yochan Kohen Gadol for against voting for 80 years, and at the end changed his mind. You see true Gadol can change his mind and go against accepted mesorah.
What do poskim say about when Beis Din make a gezara but a later Beis Din of smaller stature wants to be mevatel it because they feel that at the current time the gezara is making things WORSE not better? Hint, they don't say go with the mesora...
Pardon me I mean no disrespect but What these Rosh Yeshivas living in America don't understand is that sochnut money is not under govt control and can not be touched by Israeli liberal court system. Pesach Letner turned around the Young Israel movement in his tenure there.
Let’s cut the lies there were great rabbanim who supported this over century ago just like there were treat rabbanim who opposed. rav Shmuel Mohilever was part of the first Zionist congress and I doubt they that the current opponents or supporters of voting would be able to be a rav in Bialystok and have rav chaim brisker consider them worthy enough to be maspid. To say “ All the Gedolei Hador of the past” is a lie and I think the only one on the list who would be considered a gadol at the beginning of what became the wzo was the Chofitz chaim. Ps I’m personally not voting for other reasons that have nothing to do with Zionism.
If someone claims All the Gedolei Hador shavru" were on one side however one of at the time universally considered to be one of the gedolay hador was on the other side. there are 3 possible options either 1. the person is is ignorant of the facts 2. the person is lying 3. the person is rewriting history because of this incident and taking away the gadlus of someone who is infinitely greater then he is.
Unfortunately I think it is either option 2 or 3. If he said like rav Feldman said last time MOST of the gedolim assured it, I have no issue, it is probably true that most poskim who weighed in on this issues probably assured it but the fact is those poskim who matired it over the past 100+ years are much bigger than those assuring it this year. my issue is not WZO but turning sheker into emes, and turning emes into sheker and lying about our mesorah
A group is being formed to counter the media blitz being run by eretz hakodesh. We're fund raising for a massive media campaign. We're looking to form a budget on par with eretz hakodesh. Anybody know how much eretz hakodesh is spending on advertising and marketing? Tens of print pages weekly, ads littering the "frum" news media, social media, podcasts, payoffs to limit the anti coverage. We need a ballpark dollar amount so that we can we can spread our message equally.
The question remains, who is paying for the anti-eretz hakodesh blitz? Who paid for the printing of the pamphlets and their distribution? Who is paying for the website? Who gains from all of this? Hint - it rhymes with deform.
Every media outlet and watsapp status are bought off by the marketing of EK to fool klal yisroel The worst are the watsapp guys who try to make themselves look neutral without disclosing they are paid to market for Eretz Hakodesh to fool ppl by gaining their trust, that's what a snake does.
Do you think that those who ran around getting signatures against Eretz Hakodesh were asking the shaalo honestly? Do you think every Rav who spoke or signed against Eretz Hakodesh was clearly and fully informed of how much shmad the Reform movement is looking to cause by winning the elections and how much shmad can be prevented if Eretz Hakodesh wins?
Just comes to show how little Yiras Shmaoyim and l'shem shmoyim some of the opponents of Eretz Hakodosh are if they can brush away concerns about the Reform shmad attempts as "fear mongering"
No idea who the Chamonix Ish was but if you mean the Chazon Ish (1)The reform movement did not run in the WZO elections during his lifetime (2)the frum community in the US was anyway way too small to have effectively made a counter party during his lifetime . Among other differences between now and then.
Eretz Hakodesh facing serious competition from the Aish HaTorah slate you would think they would be happy that another frum slate is joining but it all comes down to gelt their true colors show this is all about the almighty dollar and they use the shmad reform catch phrase to full the diaspora Jews
Amalek, no more and no less.
ReplyDeleteGoing for broke are we?
Buddy, if you've got something intelligent to say, please do. The קרך בדרך attempt is indiciative who you're aiding.
DeleteMocking the Chofetz Chaim seems ok?
DeleteWhy is this thing so important there clearly are gedolim pro what’s burning them
ReplyDeletehttps://fixinglakewood.blogspot.com/2025/03/wzo.html
Save your neurons, blog is a complete senseless word salad
Deleteso Rav Chaim Kanevsky, Rav Gershon Edelstein, and Rav Moshe hillel Hirsch aren't Gedolim? Rav Gurwitz? Rav Shmuel Fuerst? Rav Elya Brudny?? At what point do we say that the Rosh Yeshiva choose who is a Gadol based on their Hashkafa alognment and wont align themselves with daas torah! The Torah says to go with the Gadol of your dor, the Aharon, even thugh he says differently than the past. The Chofetz chaim and Rav Elyashib would frequently say differently than gedolim of the past. Otherwise we are like the chasidim of a dead rebbe
ReplyDeleteThere was no letter with Reb Chaims signature in support of voting for Eretz HaKodesh. Rav Aaron Feldman verified with Reb Chaims family that what was claimed to be said in his name was not so,, and he conveyed the same with Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky.
DeleteTherefore all those who support Eretz Hakodesh based on Reb Chaim have no teeth to stand on.
Rav Elya Brudny Rav Moshe Hillel Rav Gershon Edelstein NEVER signed any current letters in support of voting.
Rav Avrohom Gurwitz is in England not in the US.
and Rav Dov Landau the leader pf Degel HATorah said its assur
1. Please don't include rabbi furest with the others.
DeleteLet's cut out the lies.
2. Rav gershon was against.
3. Rav moshe hillel against.
4. Rav Shmuel, against, only said if Rav Chaim then I won't argue with him.
5. Rav Chaim being pro is a long discredited rumor.
All those gedolim mentioned that "went different than the past" understood and explained that it's not different. Going different is reform or the like.
DeleteLet's agree to fight the reform where and when needed if and when permissible.
A gadol is not allowed to say like his rebbe?
DeleteTo see why it's so important, listen to the R"Y.
ReplyDeleteAlternatively can send to ukfortorah@gmail.com or visit https://harehbetzba.com for more info and understanding.
Rabbi Jonathan Guttentag came to Rav Avrohom Gurwicz שליט״א.
ReplyDeleteAs background, Rabbi Guttentag served as a Rav in Manchester for over three decades before being thrown out from his position after taking a firm stance against Bas Mitzvah celebrations on Shabbos and preventing girls from delivering their drashos in front of the Aron Kodesh. Given that the shul was part of the United Synagogue and had a predominantly non-religious membership, his position was particularly controversial.
Later, Rabbi Guttentag was hired by Pesach Lerner.... He approached Rav Avrohom Gurwicz to explain the structure of Eretz Hakodesh and sought his signature on a letter encouraging people to register. He assured Rav Avrohom that registration simply meant registering for Eretz Hakodesh, which would help them being eligible to get larger grants / bigger piece of the pie from the World Zionist Organization (WZO). So it was a win win, no lose situation. He emphasized that there was no voting involved in England—only a cost-free registration process. And he told him that Rav Chaim Kanievsky זצ״ל and Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky supported the initiative. Rav Gurwicz didn't even call / speak to Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky.
Note, that original letter in 5782, was written a few months after Rav Chaim zt'l was already niftar, and Eretz Hakodesh was very careful not to make this letter mefursom back then.
You have to מדייק everything Rav Avrohom Gurwicz writes, he is very מדייק and he just writes there that you should follow the gedolim. He didn't write voting. YWN put up a video of Rav Avrohom Gurwicz signing or writing - but he does not say anything in the video, and you cannot see what he is writing - but you can go visit him in his house any day, and find the same scenario, just go ask anybody that lives in Gateshead, they saw the same thing when they came to his house, and it can be any random thing. Like, I am an anti-vaxxer, and I can easily dig up all the pictures of myself visiting the gedolim, and also make a video of a gadol or Rosh Yeshiva writing. (Do you think a gadol would waste time, all they do is learn and write, they do NOT waste time)
- UK Government Company Information - Eretz Hakodesh UK https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13720964/persons-with-significant-control
Decades ago, one of the Gedolei HaDor told me, 'You can't trust anyone—not even me.' He emphasized that every matter should be documented properly with a shtar and eidim. To underscore this point, he shared a personal story about an experience he had with Rav Yisroel Eliyahu Weintraub זצ״ל, illustrating the importance of written records.
Yochan Kohen Gadol for against voting for 80 years, and at the end changed his mind. You see true Gadol can change his mind and go against accepted mesorah.
ReplyDeleteWhat do poskim say about when Beis Din make a gezara but a later Beis Din of smaller stature wants to be mevatel it because they feel that at the current time the gezara is making things WORSE not better? Hint, they don't say go with the mesora...
DeleteA dozen similar proofs the other way
DeletePardon me I mean no disrespect but What these Rosh Yeshivas living in America don't understand is that sochnut money is not under govt control and can not be touched by Israeli liberal court system. Pesach Letner turned around the Young Israel movement in his tenure there.
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly why I'll be listing to Rav dov landau and rav ahron feldman who lives in eretz yisroel most of his life.
DeleteHow much does fwd:nyc pay to post your silly comments?
Let’s cut the lies there were great rabbanim who supported this over century ago just like there were treat rabbanim who opposed. rav Shmuel Mohilever was part of the first Zionist congress and I doubt they that the current opponents or supporters of voting would be able to be a rav in Bialystok and have rav chaim brisker consider them worthy enough to be maspid.
ReplyDeleteTo say “ All the Gedolei Hador of the past” is a lie and I think the only one on the list who would be considered a gadol at the beginning of what became the wzo was the Chofitz chaim.
Ps I’m personally not voting for other reasons that have nothing to do with Zionism.
Lots of pious people who were too pious for the rough real world.Anybody can dig up names for almost anything.
DeleteIf someone claims All the Gedolei Hador shavru" were on one side however one of at the time universally considered to be one of the gedolay hador was on the other side.
Deletethere are 3 possible options either
1. the person is is ignorant of the facts
2. the person is lying
3. the person is rewriting history because of this incident and taking away the gadlus of someone who is infinitely greater then he is.
Unfortunately I think it is either option 2 or 3.
If he said like rav Feldman said last time MOST of the gedolim assured it, I have no issue, it is probably true that most poskim who weighed in on this issues probably assured it
but the fact is those poskim who matired it over the past 100+ years are much bigger than those assuring it this year.
my issue is not WZO but turning sheker into emes, and turning emes into sheker and lying about our mesorah
A group is being formed to counter the media blitz being run by eretz hakodesh. We're fund raising for a massive media campaign. We're looking to form a budget on par with eretz hakodesh.
ReplyDeleteAnybody know how much eretz hakodesh is spending on advertising and marketing? Tens of print pages weekly, ads littering the "frum" news media, social media, podcasts, payoffs to limit the anti coverage. We need a ballpark dollar amount so that we can we can spread our message equally.
I heard it's over $1 million!!! Good luck catching up.
DeleteThe question remains, who is paying for the anti-eretz hakodesh blitz? Who paid for the printing of the pamphlets and their distribution? Who is paying for the website? Who gains from all of this?
DeleteHint - it rhymes with deform.
Rather donate to yeshivos in Eretz Yisroel, as that will 100% increase torah learning.
DeleteEvery media outlet and watsapp status are bought off by the marketing of EK to fool klal yisroel
ReplyDeleteThe worst are the watsapp guys who try to make themselves look neutral without disclosing they are paid to market for Eretz Hakodesh to fool ppl by gaining their trust, that's what a snake does.
Do you think that those who ran around getting signatures against Eretz Hakodesh were asking the shaalo honestly? Do you think every Rav who spoke or signed against Eretz Hakodesh was clearly and fully informed of how much shmad the Reform movement is looking to cause by winning the elections and how much shmad can be prevented if Eretz Hakodesh wins?
DeleteRav Dov Landau still said you can't vote
DeleteStop with the Reform Shmad fear mongering
Are Fwd nyc trolls at least getting paid
DeleteJust comes to show how little Yiras Shmaoyim and l'shem shmoyim some of the opponents of Eretz Hakodosh are if they can brush away concerns about the Reform shmad attempts as "fear mongering"
DeleteChamonix Ish wasn't worried about the reform???
DeleteThere's torah halachah, and that should be followed not the reform.
No idea who the Chamonix Ish was but if you mean the Chazon Ish (1)The reform movement did not run in the WZO elections during his lifetime (2)the frum community in the US was anyway way too small to have effectively made a counter party during his lifetime . Among other differences between now and then.
DeleteEretz Hakodesh facing serious competition from the Aish HaTorah slate you would think they would be happy that another frum slate is joining but it all comes down to gelt their true colors show this is all about the almighty dollar and they use the shmad reform catch phrase to full the diaspora Jews
ReplyDeleteAish is a frum slate?!Since when?!
DeleteOh so now Rav Berkowitz dosent count because he's supporting Aish Haam over eretz hakodesh
DeleteThe colors are showing
Rav Berkowitz did not say to vote for the Aish slate. He said to vote for Eretz Hakodesh.
DeleteAlso, Rav Feurst said it's a chiyuv to vote.
Selective posting!
ReplyDeleteHefkervelt should post the Bardak video alongside these, so we can hear the full story.