Kol Korei Regarding the Elections for the WZO
Below is a Kol Korei from the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of America regarding the elections for the WZO. It does not mention Eretz Hakodesh by name but refers to it.
A recent policy change there are no individual signatures of moetzes members.
[Free Translation] The Zionist Movement was founded 125 years ago with the purpose of uprooting the foundations of Judaism and redefining the Jewish people from “a kingdom of servants of Hashem and a holy people” into a nation like all nations who are defined by a common language, culture and land. Since, in the words of Rav Saadiah Gaon, “our nation is a nation by virtue of its Torah,” the gedolim of that time did battle with this movement and ruled that anyone who considers himself a Jew may not support it in any manner whatsoever. It was for this reason that they founded Agudath Israel—to prevent those who keep Torah and mitzvos from joining the Zionist Movement.
Accordingly, the geonim the Chofetz Chaim, the Gerrer Rebbe, Rav Chaim of Brisk, the Chazon Ish, Rav Aharon Kotler, the Steipler, Rav Elazar Menachem Man Shach, and Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, zichronam livracha, forbade joining the World Zionist Organization (WZO). The Chofetz Chaim ruled that it is forbidden to join it even if this means a third of the yeshivos will have to close. Similarly, recently, a ruling forbidding this was issued by Maran Hagaon Rav Dov Landau shlit”a.
About five years ago, a party of Chareidim was formed with the declared intention of joining the WZO. It claimed that thereby they would rescue the holy sites of Israel from control by the Reform and that they would thereby direct monies of the WZO to the yeshivos. Now that at this time there are elections for the WZO, this party and others similar to it have embarked on a massive advertising campaign to convince those committed to Judaism to vote for them to become delegates to the WZO.
In order to vote, the voter must sign a declaration that he accepts upon himself the Zionist ideology, which does not recognize that the Jewish people is bound by the Torah. He also declares that he encourages participation in the IDF and that those who are exempt must serve in Sherut Leumi (national service for both yeshiva students and Chareidi girls). The elected delegates become full partners in the activities of the WZO, including those that negate the Torah. We therefore believe that it is forbidden to vote in these elections.
We do not intend to impugn the honor of those distinguished rabbis who ruled that it is permitted. However, our opinion is that there are many issurim (prohibitions) involved here, both for the voters and for the delegates. 1) There is a massive chillul Hashem in declaring acceptance of the heretical ideas of the WZO. 2) It is forbidden to agree to matters that the Torah leadership of Klal Yisroel says are forbidden. 3) For elected delegates, it is forbidden to join a group of sinners (hischabrus l’resha’im). 4) The voters are mesayei’a lidei aveirah (assisting in the commission of aveiros). It is obvious that the money hoped to be received from the WZO does not justify these serious issurim.
We have therefore agreed to publicize our opinion that it is forbidden to vote for any party in the election for the WZO. We firmly believe that Hashem has ways to preserve Torah amongst the Jewish people without resorting to violating these issurim. We wish a pleasant life replete with the blessings promised to those who sanctify the Name of Hashem and who abstain from joining with those who uproot Judaism. May Hashem grant that we merit speedily that the entire Jewish people return to their Father in Heaven and accept upon themselves the yoke of Torah. May all of us together become a kingdom of servants of Hashem and a holy people.
For this we have gathered and agreed upon on Thursday, the 20th of Adar, 5785. Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of America
The letzamin are already doing what they do best
ReplyDelete"There's no letterhead"
"Maybe it's from some guy in a basement"
"Maybe only some signed and not everyone agrees"
"No signatures"
But the same clown will say "many rabbonim behind eretz hakokosh" without being able to put up one credible name.
Any chance you can answer any of the above questions you just raised?
DeleteThe same clowns who had no problem ignoring Mo'etzes members when they said to vote for Avi Shnall have no right to claim superiority here.
DeleteBut so far, consistency hasn't been their strong point.
The motzes did not say to vote for schnall they only addressed the issue of him being a conflict of interest in keeping his job at agudah at the time and about dealing with democrat agendas They gave him a bracha but there was never a ruling to vote.
DeletePlease let's not mix Avi Schnall into this for now, but talking about consistency Rav Chaim said the internet is Yehoreg Val Yaavor di those pushing EH follow all Reb Chaims rulings?
DeleteVoting for schnall is a much bigger issur than voting for the who. Voting for schnall was a vote for ritzicha and arayus voting for wzo had gedolim who said yes (marcheshes) and gedolim who said no
DeleteRetroactive baloney.They DEMANDED everybody support him,even though they can't endorse officially
DeleteAnonymous 6:53 . Don't rewrite history. It is very easy to get the video online of Rav Yitzchak Sorotzkin saying that there was a 100% consensus on the Moetzes that Schnall should run for assembly. Without even one dissenter.
DeleteAlbeit after the event R'A F -indeed ,the very same- admitted to my colleague that he deferred to the others since he was out of the loop re: AS vote, & may have been based upon mistaken information he was given.
Delete
ReplyDeleteHOW COME THERE IS conveniently A CHAREIDI GOV'T MINISTER FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS?!
IT WAS considered ASSUR FOR CLOSE TO 70 YEARS! NOTHING supposedly CHANGED!
Wow you shtucht the olam with all caps
DeleteThe minister was from the Chasidishe faction of UTJ
If you can't give a decent response - admit you're empty
DeleteI am BH a very close talmid of reb avrohom gurwicz, I spoke to him last week, and as he said, the old prohibition against wzo definitely doesn’t apply any more, because times have changed, I’m not gonna explain in depth why it has changed, but we don’t need proofs to show that times change, ask reb aharon Feldman, yes everyone is quoting him, so ask him why he allows limudei chol in his yeshivah, when the netziv and all the earlier gedolim were fire against it, the netziv even closed his yeshiva to stop it, yes reb aharon will tell you that times have changed, period, same thing here, reb aharon tried to call up reb avrohom, and reb avrohom respectfully explained to him why he disagrees, I’m not telling anyone what to do, but listen to your godol, and reb avrohom is the unified godol of European jewry…
ReplyDeletei don't belive Rav A gurwicz שליט"א made the analogy to voloshin.
Deletejust for the record voloshin yeshiva was not closed due to the fact the gov required them to learn chol. for some years before it closed they had already been learning chol. it was closed when the gov decreed that they can only learn kodesh 3 hours a day! and that too not in the morning.
if you wish to bring a source against learning chol in a yeshiva you could have brought Rav Shamshon Refoel Hirsh זצ"ל who did not permit anything besides גמרא וכדומה in yeshiva. not דקדוק or תולדות ישראל, גבולות הארץ etc. in fact, that was his public feud against R' Hildeshiemier's rabbiner semminar, which was highly lauded by all the eastern european gedolim. Rav Hirsh compared it in his newspaper to Breslau ודלח"ב and blamed it for this that germany was no more the leading land for producing the greatest Gedolei Yisroel [up till that point practically all רבותינו were exclusively in/from the great Yeshivos of Askenaz. so much so that you'll be hard pressed finding any used Mechaber from the years of centuries of ש"מ - תר"כ לפ"ק not from greater germany. even the Gr"a spent 15 years learning in those yeshivos from age 20-35].
[yes i know he himself gave into the gov and had chol in his schools up till 9th grade. most Yehudim from Frankfurt never learnt chol past that age]
The previous has some correct facts but is essentially false from both ends
DeleteIs he giving over his yeshivos in England, as times have changed???
DeleteFalse
Wow 2:55!!
DeleteHow did you manage to fit so many bad interpretations of history into one paragraph. Are you from the camp of kannaim that preaches how the zionists supported Hitler because they needed an excuse for the medina? The people claiming that are very knowledgeable but very misguided at the same time.
History is very objective once you involve motive.
i'm 2:55 and i'm still waiting for any tochendika reply
Deletenot the usual prattle of the ignoramus who get offended when you reveal a bit of the truth which doesn't sit well with what they're familiar with
i really would like to argue it out if anyone has anything to add
it's fun to be right!
2:55
DeleteR'Chaim Berlin gave a very different record what happened.
In Germany,most people of all persuasions considered above junior high only for the select.Most of his own family & many adherents continued on to University
As for Heildersheimers,it had awful many critics that either you're unaware of you choose to ignore.& finally it was they blocked it from transferring to Palestine
Furtermore, R H was strong supporter of Austritt, contra liberal modox revisionists
DeleteNEW!!! NEW!!!
ReplyDeleteHERE IS A LINK TO JOIN THE HAREHBETZBA WHATSAPP GROUP WHERE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO HOLD WITH THE WAR AGAINST THE WORLD ZIONIST ORGANIZATION
https://chat.whatsapp.com/ICl2XJnGuYF9DRPs0O6W0Z
I cannot believe that the OU is sending out mass emails with a personal video from EVP Rabbi Moshe Hauer encouraging their email lists to vote for the Mizrachi group in WZO!!
ReplyDeleteHow can they fail to follow the ruling of our gedolei hador?!?!
What can be done to counter act it?
Let me guess, we should vote eretz hakodesh? No you silly little boy! Let the OU join the reform in hell, and we want nothing to do with wzo.
DeleteOU has always been in that camp.Wake up
DeleteThere hasn't been a sanhedrin, and certainly not one posek alone, who can isssue rulings binding on all of klal yisrael for a very long time. Others who are higiya lhoraah, are entitled to pasken for their own communities. This is how psak halacha has worked for thousands of years throughout our galus.
DeleteThe OU does not consider these people to be their manhigim and never has. You want to scream at the OU based on clear Gemorah and Rishonim go right ahead. Give us the maareh mokomos . If you want to scream "Gedoley Hador" why are they are under they any obligation to listen to people who they don't consider to be their manhighim and never asked them any shaalos?Not about this and not about anything else Give us the maareh mokomos that they have to first. Rav Herschel Schacter who is a lot bigger Talmid Chochom and lot more shkua in learning than anyone reading this, is running on the Mizhrachi slate
Delete8:00pm what exactly is your problem? Rav Shmuel Fuerst, Rav Gurowitz, R Yitzchok Berkowitz and others have said that one should vote
ReplyDeleteRabbi Berkowitz said his message was for aish alumni who'd be voting anyways, they should vote for the aish platform.
DeleteRabbi Furest retracted.
Retracted- only in public
DeleteLol "only in public"
DeleteThe OU is fighting daas Torah
ReplyDeleteDo you or anyone else here care about Daas torah saying in this letter that they don’t want to impugn the honor of the Rabbonim who hold voting is permissible? As someone who once faithfully believed in and obeyed Daas Torah, unfortunately life experience has taught me that the MO haskafa about it is correct .
DeleteMight agree with that too,if MO were coherent.They aren't.
DeleteThis should be very coherent https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecturedata/1090501/Daas-Torah-for-the-Modern-Orthodox-Community Get back to me after you listen to it
ReplyDeleteAI of America are using now a wedge issue to make themselves relevant
ReplyDelete