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Saturday, March 16, 2024
Hashkafa Q&A
Hashkafa with Rav Gershon Ribner
The shidduch crisis
The man who holds the power to liberate all who suffer from the shidduch crisis
Bimechilas kevodo this makes no sense. His family who run BMG could do the same thing if they wanted to . They could not accept any boy coming back from EY who is older than 22 or 21 and a half. That would accomplish the exact same thing . Obviously they won't do this because they don't want to ,not because they can't. Do don't go blame anybody else.
The freezer is the last thing to blame for the so called shidduch crisis if you want to put blame. There are other factors and culprits way before the freezer and after the freezer
Who mentioned the freezer ? The previous comment had nothing to do with the freezer. It just said thst BMG if they wanted tob,could stop bochirim from going to EY after 20. Al they have to do is make a policy that no bochur over 21.5 years of age will get accepted to BMG . Obviously they don't want go do that but if they did they would stop the so called pilgrimage to Brisk or the pilgrimage would start at 19.5 or 20 years old.
The freezer is a problem not just a time delay,but allows a bochur to hear shidduchim Without having to commit to anything And the names pile up Without needing to give a yes or no. In order to make a "sale" you need to have a deadline Use it or lose it. When the freezer opens up he has a security of having 5 names in his pocket, Never under pressure to commt to anything.
Anon. 5:45 - you are 100% right. The freezer is very unhealthy for bochurim at that age. It doesn't contribute much to the crisis, but it causes other issues.
In a Yeshiva where the ratio between Rosh Yeshiva and talmid is acceptable, there would be no need for a freezer. A bochur would know that there is a RY waiting to speak to him in learning, he is respected for who he is, and his achievements make others better. In such a Yeshiva, a date doesn't disturb the whole day, and the Beis Hamedrash stays strong even when someone is busy with a tachlis.
what a load of silliness. Even if the age gap is Real it is only One of the factors causing the problem.... How petty and small minded.. What about the hundreds of boys in BMG over 26??. How do you explain that??
Hot head! Think! It might not be the whole problem but when you have hundreds of boys still available you need to explain why no one is pairing up with them. Can't really call a shortage when you have availability. The point is, there is more to it.
The olam will go to Eretz Yisrael regardless of Brisk there needs to be a buffer between bais medrash in US to getting married. The yeshivos are not preparing bochurim to get married after 3rd or 4th year they are in systems that are feeding off mesivtas and not mature enough. The EY stage gives them a chance to mature and cone back to the US and begin shidduchim
If anything it's the opposite Rav AY used to make bochurim wait a few years just to get into shiur, if a bochur going to brisk gets right into shiur they will get back earlier . Some bichurim stay another zman in the US just to be able to get into brisk for the next zman
Keep this going & ramp it up.(Some sly self-centered grubbe title manipulators will probably try to have this key part of the discussions shtilled,for the sake of whatever).Finally having this crucial aspect getting debated might be already a bit of progress
1. Reb AY Soloveichik is not someone whose mind cannot be changed. He is pretty predictable, and if you know where his buttons are, you can push them easily.
2. If Reb AYS stops accepting bochurim, he is risking his entire Yeshiva. Would the honored speaker be willing to give up his position and power and everything he stands for, for a problem that he did not cause.
3. The problem behind Brisk is not what he does. It is the very idea that everyone has to do the same thing at the same time. We are educating bots, 'normal people', who follow the herd, and there is no respect for those who have their own cheshbonos. If people got married when it was good for them and chose Yeshivos according to what is good for them, there would be no strong system to force problems to magnify themselves. Some would get married at 19, some at 20, others would even wait to 26. But that would not push the girls around, and would make the shiduchim business more real.
4. The chassidus of Reb AYS is out of place. There are other Roshei Yeshivos who can teach American bochurim in Eretz Yisroel, and they are no less choshuv, part of a Mesorah, or necessary for Klal Yisroel's future.
So there have been many meetings, and the Roshei Yeshiva are fed up with the fact that baalebatim are running the show. The solution: find someone 6,000 miles away to blame. Because we don't actually have to solve a problem, we merely need to find someone to blame for it.
If R'AY would only accept yungerleit he would end up being just another kollel in Eretz Yisroel (1) There are far fewer people who didn't learn there as a bochur who look to learn there as yungerliet (2)by bochurim there is usually a chevra who go together at a certain point to learn there. Being that people don't get married at the same time, such a thing would be impossible for yungerliet. (3)it is more difficult for a yungerman to work out learning there than for a bochur. If you believe (like I'm sure R'AY does) that it is important to spread Toras and haskafas Brisk this isn't something he can do
Bmchilas kvodo. He is just shifting blame to a person who as he said is untouchable. The blame lies right here in America on the Roshei Yeshiva and its sickening, sad and unfathomable that nothing is being done. I also think that making jokes when discussing this topic is being very callous
There are a few jihadi baleibatim who are pushing this campaign they are attacking the freezer because they are sonei Torah and they have the scoop doing the dirty work for them by putting out content constantly attacking the yeshivos. But an even bigger cowardice these balei batim are from the biggest contributors to the shidduch crisis as they only do high end uber rich shidduchim and will never take a good boy from a poor family. They are using Rav Chaim Kanievsky to justify their campaign while not living the life of Reb Chaim.
It definitely would help solve the crisis,people would see that you don't have to be picky or worry what people think it will make people get off their high horse and compromise.
And Rav Chaim Zecher Tzadik Livrocho NEVER said that the shidduch crisis is due to the freezer. It is disingenuous, A LIE to insinuate that he felt the freezer was “the cause” of the shidduch crisis. It is true that he felt that young men and woman should get Married at 18 but that was because of kedusha issues
This small group of Balei batim have caused sinas Hatorah they attacked our yeshivos and made hundreds of girls loose hope and become depressed Have they even redd a single shiddich??
Its pretty clear that its a small group of roshei yeshiva (not all, its a few who who are blocking change, their names are well known) who are causing sinas torah by ignoring the plight of our girls (their girls are fine because its CHOSHUV to marry the r"y daughter). Sad but true
The freezer is clearly a major major contributor to this disaster. It shuts down the avail supply of bochurim for many months of the year. If the boys coming back for pesach would start dating immediately and not wait till mid summer when there’s another thousand girls on the market there would be way less older single girls
The rich who pay off shadchanim to redd them the first picks are contributing big time to the crisis by grabbing the boys before they hit the market They are tying up the shadchanim for themselves and average or poor boys and girls are not looked at by the shadchanim.
You are fetishizing the rich, falling into the poor man's trap of thinking that money can buy you everything. Lots of rich people have daughters that are getting old, and lots of these 'first picks' end up going nowhere.
The rich have an easier time paying their bills, driving nice cars, having huge houses, and eating expensive cuts of meat. In shiduchim, they are the same as the rest of us.
The crisis is caused by NUMBERS, not rich people. It is true there are shadchanim like R. and L. that deal exclusively matching up rich to rich, it is distasteful, but it isn't causing the crisis. Let's try to stay focused.
There are wealthy people that don't look at themselves different or better then others, they simply were blessed with wealth from shmayim. These people are healthy and are not particular about marrying only wealthy people as they don't view themselves superior to anyone else. The many (many!) rich people that will only marry equally wealthy people, and only use those shadchanim that circulate abd produce names of that crowd, they view themselves as smarter, better, and in a different class and segment of society. They view others as a step down the social rung and somehow inferior. This is distasteful, and yes indeed, it is better they marry into each other and leave the rest of society unsullied. These type of people have always existed, and probably always will. The shadchonim that exclusively deal with that crowd, are usually wannabees, that are enamored by the wealthy, and are distasteful people as well. But, again, this has nothing to do with the shidduch crises, as there is still a crises of NUMBERS, there are too many girls vs boys.
So the yungerleit who will go back to 'RAY Brisk' married will need serious support from hundreds of shvers, many who cant afford this as the wife doesn't make real income in Israel. Until there is a reasonable solution nothing will change.
The reason so many single bochurim in BMG are they are waiting for a shver to support them. Bochurim ( and the parents of them) need to take some achrayis and not expect $$$ doled out to them. Have some emunah and bitachon get SOME support from a shver (Dont cause him a heart attack) wife works and yes a husband can get income from many sources in BMG, Kollel check, dirshu bechinas, shmiras hasdorim, work study and many other sources. Time for some old fashoined emunah and bitachon and many bochrum will get married to wonderful girls. Nisht alts is gelt.
You obviously do not realize. There are lists of boys giving out to the shadchanim, compilated by the BMG office. There are hundreds of boys over the age of 26. And those are only the boys who are actually enrolled in BMG there are hundreds running around town and rented apartments who are not affiliated with any institution.
The alteh bochurim are waiting for the gvir to support so he can go learn in R AY Brisk The support situation is out of control , that is why so many bochrim in BMG. Take some achrayos and get married.
Rav Gershon obviously really wanted to say that Brisk should not except a boy after age 19 not after marriage (but couldn’t say it for obvious reasons.) Otherwise nothing makes sense.
Bimechilas kevodo this makes no sense. His family who run BMG could do the same thing if they wanted to . They could not accept any boy coming back from EY who is older than 22 or 21 and a half. That would accomplish the exact same thing . Obviously they won't do this because they don't want to ,not because they can't. Do don't go blame anybody else.
ReplyDeleteThe freezer is the last thing to blame for the so called shidduch crisis if you want to put blame. There are other factors and culprits way before the freezer and after the freezer
DeleteWho mentioned the freezer ? The previous comment had nothing to do with the freezer. It just said thst BMG if they wanted tob,could stop bochirim from going to EY after 20. Al they have to do is make a policy that no bochur over 21.5 years of age will get accepted to BMG . Obviously they don't want go do that but if they did they would stop the so called pilgrimage to Brisk or the pilgrimage would start at 19.5 or 20 years old.
DeleteThe freezer is a problem not just a time delay,but allows a bochur to hear shidduchim Without having to commit to anything And the names pile up Without needing to give a yes or no. In order to make a "sale" you need to have a deadline Use it or lose it. When the freezer opens up he has a security of having 5 names in his pocket, Never under pressure to commt to anything.
DeleteAnon. 5:45 - you are 100% right. The freezer is very unhealthy for bochurim at that age. It doesn't contribute much to the crisis, but it causes other issues.
DeleteIn a Yeshiva where the ratio between Rosh Yeshiva and talmid is acceptable, there would be no need for a freezer. A bochur would know that there is a RY waiting to speak to him in learning, he is respected for who he is, and his achievements make others better. In such a Yeshiva, a date doesn't disturb the whole day, and the Beis Hamedrash stays strong even when someone is busy with a tachlis.
what a load of silliness. Even if the age gap is Real it is only One of the factors causing the problem.... How petty and small minded.. What about the hundreds of boys in BMG over 26??. How do you explain that??
ReplyDeletegenuis! Hundreds of boys cant marry THOUSANDS of girls!!
DeleteHot head! Think! It might not be the whole problem but when you have hundreds of boys still available you need to explain why no one is pairing up with them. Can't really call a shortage when you have availability. The point is, there is more to it.
DeleteThere are always exceptions to the system, for whatever reason.
DeleteWhen society becomes so big, the exceptions will look like a great number. But with the girls the number is too large to be considered exceptions.
The olam will go to Eretz Yisrael regardless of Brisk there needs to be a buffer between bais medrash in US to getting married. The yeshivos are not preparing bochurim to get married after 3rd or 4th year they are in systems that are feeding off mesivtas and not mature enough. The EY stage gives them a chance to mature and cone back to the US and begin shidduchim
ReplyDeleteIf anything it's the opposite Rav AY used to make bochurim wait a few years just to get into shiur, if a bochur going to brisk gets right into shiur they will get back earlier . Some bichurim stay another zman in the US just to be able to get into brisk for the next zman
ReplyDeleteWhy won't American RY stop sending their bochurim?
ReplyDeleteKeep this going & ramp it up.(Some sly self-centered grubbe title manipulators will probably try to have this key part of the discussions shtilled,for the sake of whatever).Finally having this crucial aspect getting debated might be already a bit of progress
ReplyDelete1. Reb AY Soloveichik is not someone whose mind cannot be changed. He is pretty predictable, and if you know where his buttons are, you can push them easily.
ReplyDelete2. If Reb AYS stops accepting bochurim, he is risking his entire Yeshiva. Would the honored speaker be willing to give up his position and power and everything he stands for, for a problem that he did not cause.
3. The problem behind Brisk is not what he does. It is the very idea that everyone has to do the same thing at the same time. We are educating bots, 'normal people', who follow the herd, and there is no respect for those who have their own cheshbonos. If people got married when it was good for them and chose Yeshivos according to what is good for them, there would be no strong system to force problems to magnify themselves. Some would get married at 19, some at 20, others would even wait to 26. But that would not push the girls around, and would make the shiduchim business more real.
4. The chassidus of Reb AYS is out of place. There are other Roshei Yeshivos who can teach American bochurim in Eretz Yisroel, and they are no less choshuv, part of a Mesorah, or necessary for Klal Yisroel's future.
So there have been many meetings, and the Roshei Yeshiva are fed up with the fact that baalebatim are running the show.
ReplyDeleteThe solution: find someone 6,000 miles away to blame. Because we don't actually have to solve a problem, we merely need to find someone to blame for it.
Because whether or not we like it that's were the crucial key is
ReplyDeleteIf R'AY would only accept yungerleit he would end up being just another kollel in Eretz Yisroel (1) There are far fewer people who didn't learn there as a bochur who look to learn there as yungerliet (2)by bochurim there is usually a chevra who go together at a certain point to learn there. Being that people don't get married at the same time, such a thing would be impossible for yungerliet. (3)it is more difficult for a yungerman to work out learning there than for a bochur. If you believe (like I'm sure R'AY does) that it is important to spread Toras and haskafas Brisk this isn't something he can do
ReplyDeleteBmchilas kvodo. He is just shifting blame to a person who as he said is untouchable. The blame lies right here in America on the Roshei Yeshiva and its sickening, sad and unfathomable that nothing is being done. I also think that making jokes when discussing this topic is being very callous
ReplyDeleteThere are a few jihadi baleibatim who are pushing this campaign they are attacking the freezer because they are sonei Torah and they have the scoop doing the dirty work for them by putting out content constantly attacking the yeshivos.
ReplyDeleteBut an even bigger cowardice these balei batim are from the biggest contributors to the shidduch crisis as they only do high end uber rich shidduchim and will never take a good boy from a poor family. They are using Rav Chaim Kanievsky to justify their campaign while not living the life of Reb Chaim.
Your attacks are as tasteless as they are untrue.
DeleteIf rich people took sons in law from poor families, it would not solve the crisis one whit.
It definitely would help solve the crisis,people would see that you don't have to be picky or worry what people think it will make people get off their high horse and compromise.
DeleteSo it's the high horse that's the problem, not the numbers discrepancy.
DeleteAnother gravity denier.
And Rav Chaim Zecher Tzadik Livrocho NEVER said that the shidduch crisis is due to the freezer. It is disingenuous, A LIE to insinuate that he felt the freezer was “the cause” of the shidduch crisis. It is true that he felt that young men and woman should get Married at 18 but that was because of kedusha issues
ReplyDeleteThis small group of Balei batim have caused sinas Hatorah they attacked our yeshivos and made hundreds of girls loose hope and become depressed
DeleteHave they even redd a single shiddich??
Its pretty clear that its a small group of roshei yeshiva (not all, its a few who who are blocking change, their names are well known) who are causing sinas torah by ignoring the plight of our girls (their girls are fine because its CHOSHUV to marry the r"y daughter). Sad but true
DeleteDo these balei batim hiding behind Rav Chaim Kanievsky grow a beard and not wear a watch... it dont seem so
DeleteWho is the "Rebbe R. Yaakov" he's referring to?
ReplyDeleteDrillman
ReplyDeleteThe freezer is clearly a major major contributor to this disaster. It shuts down the avail supply of bochurim for many months of the year. If the boys coming back for pesach would start dating immediately and not wait till mid summer when there’s another thousand girls on the market there would be way less older single girls
ReplyDeleteThe rich who pay off shadchanim to redd them the first picks are contributing big time to the crisis by grabbing the boys before they hit the market
ReplyDeleteThey are tying up the shadchanim for themselves and average or poor boys and girls are not looked at by the shadchanim.
You are fetishizing the rich, falling into the poor man's trap of thinking that money can buy you everything.
DeleteLots of rich people have daughters that are getting old, and lots of these 'first picks' end up going nowhere.
The rich have an easier time paying their bills, driving nice cars, having huge houses, and eating expensive cuts of meat. In shiduchim, they are the same as the rest of us.
...they would jump off a roof & push you off the roof if you try to take that entitlement from them..Duhhhh
DeleteThe crisis is caused by NUMBERS, not rich people.
DeleteIt is true there are shadchanim like R. and L. that deal exclusively matching up rich to rich, it is distasteful, but it isn't causing the crisis.
Let's try to stay focused.
Why is it distasteful that the rich should marry each other?
DeleteI wouldn't want my family lineage sullied by those people, it is best for all of us.
Rich is a lifestyle, it is foolish nowadays for people to change lifestyles for a few luxuries. Stay in place, it is much better.
They snatch the shtellers
DeleteThat's the least
There are wealthy people that don't look at themselves different or better then others, they simply were blessed with wealth from shmayim. These people are healthy and are not particular about marrying only wealthy people as they don't view themselves superior to anyone else.
DeleteThe many (many!) rich people that will only marry equally wealthy people, and only use those shadchanim that circulate abd produce names of that crowd, they view themselves as smarter, better, and in a different class and segment of society. They view others as a step down the social rung and somehow inferior. This is distasteful, and yes indeed, it is better they marry into each other and leave the rest of society unsullied. These type of people have always existed, and probably always will.
The shadchonim that exclusively deal with that crowd, are usually wannabees, that are enamored by the wealthy, and are distasteful people as well.
But, again, this has nothing to do with the shidduch crises, as there is still a crises of NUMBERS, there are too many girls vs boys.
So the yungerleit who will go back to 'RAY Brisk' married will need serious support from hundreds of shvers, many who cant afford this as the wife doesn't make real income in Israel. Until there is a reasonable solution nothing will change.
ReplyDeleteThe reason so many single bochurim in BMG are they are waiting for a shver to support them. Bochurim ( and the parents of them) need to take some achrayis and not expect $$$ doled out to them. Have some emunah and bitachon get SOME support from a shver (Dont cause him a heart attack) wife works and yes a husband can get income from many sources in BMG, Kollel check, dirshu bechinas, shmiras hasdorim, work study and many other sources. Time for some old fashoined emunah and bitachon and many bochrum will get married to wonderful girls.
Nisht alts is gelt.
Big mistake! There aren’t so many single bochurim in bmg - almost all of them are married within a few months of the freezer opening
DeleteYou obviously do not realize. There are lists of boys giving out to the shadchanim, compilated by the BMG office. There are hundreds of boys over the age of 26. And those are only the boys who are actually enrolled in BMG there are hundreds running around town and rented apartments who are not affiliated with any institution.
DeleteThe wealthy can afford to be picky and have dates, others are lucky if they go out once a year
ReplyDeleteYes.Instead of a gender shidduch crisis,now there's a caste shidduch crisis.Back to the old garbage.
DeleteThe alteh bochurim are waiting for the gvir to support so he can go learn in R AY Brisk
ReplyDeleteThe support situation is out of control , that is why so many bochrim in BMG. Take some achrayos and get married.
Rav Gershon obviously really wanted to say that Brisk should not except a boy after age 19 not after marriage (but couldn’t say it for obvious reasons.) Otherwise nothing makes sense.
ReplyDeleteGo to brisk not after age 19
ReplyDelete