Update: Rav Gershon Eidelstein on the terror attack - why did this suddenly happen? maybe because Reb Chaim was niftar and we have lost our zechusim the tzadik is gone. We have to be mechazek in Torah add yiras Shamayim (video below)
- Five people were killed in a shooting in Bnei Brak on Tuesday evening in at least two different places. Another person is in serious condition. Residents are told to stay indoors untill the area is safe. Jpost reports The shooter was reportedly driving a motorcycle, and his body was found on Jabotinsky Street after he was shot by security forces.. Police say the terrorist is a 26 year old Palestinian from the west bank. 2 other accomplices were arrested.
Israel Prime Minister Naftali Bennett will hold a security consultation on tonight’s attack with security officials at 10 p.m.
-One of the victims an avreich that was shot near his wife who was pushing their baby in a carriage. R’ Avishai Yechezkel Hy”d, 29, was an alumnus of Yeshiva Mishkenos Hatorah and a rebbi at Talmud Torah Ohr Dovid. He is survived by his wife and one child.
Israeli sources The terrorists previously worked in the area
Rav Chaim is not here to protect us where the words uttered by everyone as this new wave of terror continues in EY. Yesterday as he was giving a hesped Rav Meir Tzvi Bergman echoed this and said who is mot scared now that Reb Chaim is not here to protect us in general and particularly in Bnei Brak.
The third victim, R’ Avishai Yechezkel Hy”d, 29, was an alumnus of Yeshiva Mishkenos Hatorah and a rebbi at Talmud Torah Ohr Dovid. He is survived by his wife and one child.
Agudah statement
Agudath Israel is devastated by the news of yet another terror attack, this one in Bnei Brak, Israel. The attacker(s) opened fire on innocent civilians, killing five. This is the third deadly terrorist attack in Israel in the past week and a total of eleven people have been murdered.
Our brothers and sisters in Israel are reeling from more deaths in terror attacks in their country in the last week than in the last two years. We share in their pain.
We join all people of good faith in mourning the innocent victims of these murders and we wish their families comfort among the mourners of Zion and Jerusalem. May Hashem, the Guardian of Israel, protect His people.
If we want Rav Chaim's zechusim, we need to follow his words.
ReplyDeleteA note was in my shul which showed clearly that Rav Chaim held very strongly that bochurim must get married at 18. Why don't we follow him? Do we hold of Rav Chaim or do we not hold of Rav Chaim?
Why about tikun chatzos? Yom kippur koton?
DeleteIs this all about a one-trick-poni nasi show?
Sad to say this but the world ( more yeshivish/ litvish )listens to "gedolim" when it is good for them
DeleteTikkun Chatzos and Yom Kippur katan aren't mentioned in the Shulchan Aruch. They are hiddurim. No on is claiming that you have to follow every shita of Rav Chaim. There are other Poskim.
DeleteBut getting married at 18 is mentioned in the Shulchan Aruch; it is a chiyuv d'oraissa. The argument is "our mesorah is not to keep this halacha of getting married at 18," similar to Lubavitchers who have a mesorah not to sleep in the succah, or the Moroccan mesorah of women not listening to Megillas Esther. OK, fine.
But if the Gadol Hador is telling you that no such mesorah exists or that the mesorah is wrong, and we still ignore him, how are we different from Conservative Jews?
Why are we not like conservative Jews? Is this serious? Because our rabeim and our rabbeims rabbeim didn’t hold to get married at 18. Including R Ahron, the Brisker Rav, R Shach, all the Alter Mirrer Roshei Yeshiva etc etc everyone held to get married later. Even today with the recognition of the Shidduch Crisis it will be hard to find a major RY advocating marriage at 18. Maybe 20 21.
DeleteYes R Chaim held that but he was a Daas Yachid in that regard non withstanding his status as Gadol HaDor. We don’t have a pope we all have Rabbeim. Please
Perhaps this is less pertinent than it may have ones been. Still More than one distinguished T"Ç from the previous generation stated : for us it's common longer
DeleteShemonei Esreis
@Anon 4:18
Delete1) Did any of the Roshei Yeshiva you mentioned write a) that the halacha mentioned in the Shulchan Aruch no longer applies and b) give written guidelines regarding when the halacha applies and when it does not apply?
2) Rav Chaim is certainly not a Daas Yochid. The Chofetz Chaim, Aruch Hashulchan, Chazon Ish, Rav Moshe, Steipler, Rav Ovadiah Yosef, Rav Shmuel Vosner, Rav Moshe Shternbuch all WROTE that one is REQUIRED to get married at 18. These were/are all the greatest POSKIM of their generation. None of the Roshei Yeshiva you mentioned were POSKIM.
3) As a general rule, you can't rely on a Psak from someone who has a negius. The source for this is a Gemara, which refers to an Amorah who wasn't relied on because he had a negius to a particular halacha.
If I would own a Yeshiva I would have a negius that bochurim shouldn't get married young. The reason is simple. Sefarim say that Moshiach will come earlier if bochurim get married at 18. If I would have a Yeshiva, I would be worried that if Moshiach comes the Yeshiva will close down etc. I don't mean to blame anyone. The point is that according to halacha, you can't rely on someone who has a negius.
Tikkun Chatzos and Yom Kippur katan aren't mentioned in the Shulchan Aruch
DeletePlease open your Mishnah Berurah to the first Siman, second sief. Thank you.
Also realize that in addition to 10 dafim of shulchan oruch, Reb Chaim had an additional amount of Mishnah Berurah that he learned every day.
Yes, Tikkun Chatzos and Yom Kippur Katan is in the Mishnah Berura (I knew that). But it isn't in the SHULCHAN ARUCH. It isn't a chiyuv imposed on us by CHAZAL. You can argue or have a minhag against the Mishnah Berura. You can't, however, have a minhag against Chazal, especially if the Gadol Hador is EMPHATIC that the chiyuv d'oraissa still applies.
DeleteAnd even the Mishnah Berura never claims that tikkun chatzos or yom kippur katan is a chiyuv. He says that the Mekubalim say that it is a very holy thing to say Tikkun Chatzos and that it is a minhag tov to do Yom Kippur Katan. How can you compare that with a chiyuv d'oraissa of getting married before twenty? According to you, anything goes. We can't criticize Stalin, because, hey, we don't say Tikkun Chatzos. Give me a break.
Virtually none of the distinguished names who approved of getting married early mentioned above were Klal
DeleteMechanchim
For several generations already they weren't the ones deciding questions like these-for the individual
Would be fair to respond with the challenge though: who of those around nowadays making decisions such as these deserve to be considered worthy of a leading klal
Mechanech
Literally every one of them besides for one were Klal Mechanchim
DeleteFor Shalom Bayis, it would certainly be better for bochurim to get married younger. The younger a couple gets married the stronger the bond.
ReplyDeleteThat's a popular
Deleteassertion with little proof,
experience more often shows otherwise
How many couples have you researched to draw that conclusion?
DeleteChassidim have a lower divorce rate, and they get married younger.
DeleteRegarding non-Jews, teenage couples have a higher divorce rate. HOWEVER, studies have shown that the causal link is the reverse: people who, by nature, are likely to divorce recklessly also get married early.
DeleteIn fact, studies show that couples who were INCENTIVIZED to get married young (in order to avoid the Vietnam War draft, so there's no sign of anyone being reckless), show that those who got married young - at age 19 - had a lower divorce rate than those who got married later.
There's no question that a lot of divorces in our community would be avoided if bochurim would get married at 18 (the age gap also causes an increases the rate in divorce).
Virtually none of the distinguished names who approved of getting married early mentioned above were Klal
DeleteMechanchim
For several generations already they weren't the ones deciding questions like these-for the individual
Would be fair to respond with the challenge though: who of those around nowadays making decisions such as these deserve to be considered worthy of a leading klal
Mechanech
Hi Mr. Goldberg!
DeleteAre you related to Mr. Cohen by any chance?
Presumably Goldberg wasn't plagiarizing with ill intent other than attempting the quote to show appreciation or to question
DeleteWell the content of the actual comment is actually the exact opposite of the facts, unless one does not know much about the luminaries mentioned above who were Rabanim and Roshei Yeshiva in their own personal life and were asked for and heeded of their advice in Chinuch throughout the world.
DeleteCorrespondence with a psychologist in Monsey?
DeleteRunning a half day school in Cairo?
I assumed everyone was aware.
I guess those who know-know
Especially with regards to North America
Far from any slight to righteous and great men Ch"V
DeleteThis solely to straighten the record for societal
chinuch
It seems I don't know which comment you were referring to.
DeleteI was referring to the one mentioning the Steipler Rav Vosner etc. I did mention that one was not though.
This isn't a question of Chinuch. It is a question of halacha.
DeleteFurthermore,of those mentioned several were careful not to declare their decisions,when an issue was familial or educational, for the Western hemisphere
DeleteOf these gedolim - Chofetz Chaim, Aruch Hashulchan, Chazon Ish, Rav Moshe, Steipler, Rav Ovadiah Yosef, Rav Shmuel Vosner, Rav Moshe Shternbuch, Rav Chaim Kanievsky - can you cite me some sources that point to the notion that their rulings were limited to the Eastern Hemisphere?
DeleteThe litvakes are all messed up
ReplyDeleteThe Litvaks aren't messed up. Hashem was very kind to us. He gave us Rav Chaim to guide us back to the proper path. Many Litvak's children are in shidduchim at age 18. True, it is a recent phenomenon, but it is picking up steam.
Delete