Hashkafa Q&A with Rav Gershon Ribner Shlita Rebgershonribner.com
Creating a schism in the broader torah community in America
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The comments about Rav Soloveitchik are silly beyond description. I suggest Rabbi Ribner listen to an actual shiur Rav Soloveitchik readily available online, for anybody interested in the truth.
ReplyDeleteAs some more egregious aspects eg public coed lectures ;refusal to sign against giyus banos were avoided instead focused on the the man as a person it is far from silly
DeleteA lot can be redeemed by the fact that he to his credit revised virtually everything he constructed and taught starting the early mid 70s
- when he came to realize belatedly that others out there built a Judaism in America with a different more altruistic
value system better than he was capable of.
Naturally that hasn't sit well with the left of center crowd who prefer to claim that his disciples were revisionists rather than it was the relatively distinguished man himself. By and large they themselves are shifting subtly away from is teachings as the years go on as he became somewhat inconvenient for them to use
Second, much of the distortion that went on further at the university he might sincerely attempt to absolve himself
DeleteI'm not disagreeing with anything Rabbi Ribner is saying about YU but I will say that I have a son in YU. I asked a shaalo by a very close and very respected talmid of Rav Ahron Kotler who told me that if he really, really wants to go there I shouldn't give him a hard time as long as he keeps to certain gedorim (my son who is in YU wouldn't disagree with anything Rabbi Ribner said either with the possible exception of the SCA question)
ReplyDeleteOf note there are plenty of Rabbi Ribners (Gemorah not haskafa) shiurim on YU Torah. I wouldn't be surprised if even this one gets there
what would that prove?Likely JTS has some of this sort of stuff also
DeleteGranted,
hairs need to be split
between REITS and rest of the university which has endless distortions eg the newspaper is a piece of anti Orthodox trash
His facts about college in yeshivos are incorrect. Reb Yaakov didn't 'allow' college in TV. He didn't have a say in the matter. He was a hired man.
ReplyDeleteThere are other mistakes. Reb Shimon Schwab did not depart from RSRH's opinion
What is this nonsense about a bunch of camel jockeys changing America? The least empowered people in this nation are the little men that wear rags on their heads. Jewish people have been here since the 1650s and you say that we only started wearing yarmulkas in the office because of some middle-easterner that our armed forces kill with immunity. It reminds me of those New Yorkers that think African-Americans are so prefered when the reality is the society keeps them down. As if you were white you would fear to beaten during a traffic stop.
ReplyDeleteThe true cause is our FIrst Amendment Right, which by the way, no one want to expand further because of the middle-easterners. No one wants to give them more rights than we and other religions have already claimed in this country. Sure you can bring a case about housing because no middle-easterner is claiming it, but try to expand your rights to take days off or to dress a certain way. No court will allow it because of the most recent foreign element.
There is a written letter by r' Elchanan it's printed in the kovetz mamarim, where he discouraged escaping Europe to go to America if he would go to YU, in his words why run from a gashmiyus danger to a ruchniyus danger.
ReplyDeleteR' Ahron also had some choice words for Rabbi Soloveitzik, he told it to Rabbi hershman rosh kollel in Toronto.
Thirty years ago when I was learning in Brisk I was saying the same things about YU and worse . And I still think that most (not all) ta'anos on YU are true at least to some degree.
ReplyDeleteEven so Boz L'Dovor Yi'Chavel Lo.
Now that the unthinkable happened and I have a son in YU myself (as opposed to a lot of a lot worse options) I appreciate the fact YU exists and realize that in some ways and for some people the frum world is a lot better off with it than without it.
to bring rav hirsh into this question is typical utter ignorance of the most basic שיטות of rav hirsh. just for the record, rav hirsh was so apposed to anything mixed with learning in a ישיבה, or even during time when one should be learning in ישיבה, that he equated attending college during the formational years of learning (before eg 22yo) to conservatism! so much so that that public article he published in the newspaper on the occasion of the esablishment of the berlin rabbiner seminary in 1870 where he asked in what way they are diffrant to frankle (of vilno printing infamy) cause the great schism between the more eastern european oriented berlin and the more yekkish frankfurt. this is so basic that i truly think he deserves an apology, so as not to be נשכל and have worms come out of anyone's ears.
ReplyDeleteas an aside; the first thing the immigrant KAJ kehillo did when they came to washington heights was to get the city to move the subway sign for YU moved to a different station, so that those YU folks won't get off at the same station as the yekkes!
ps if anything i wrote here sounds new to you, then you have obviously NEVER heard abbout rav hirsh, which maybe ok but pls don't bother commenting before you get the basics
Huh? RSRH was so opposed to secular studies in yeshivos that he had secular studies in his own Frankfurt school (and the kids wouldn't be wearing yarmulkes)?
DeleteEven though we appreciate the sentiment, more than a couple facts are mistaken
Deletec'mon what are you talking about??? a kids school is a ישיבה???!!!
Deleteand even the the chol in kids schools was forced upon them by the government, and his entire life he spent successfully fighting to lessen the amount of hours in which chol was taught. (and btw the yeshivo of volozin in it's later days officially had far more chol the the kids had in frankfurt. it only closed after they were banned from learning torah more then 3h a day. grated, i know, that too was forced by the gov and not taken seriously)
as i said pls go get the basics if you can and then come back
I would gladly bet you $100 that you can't substantiate your patronizing comment for all the money in the world:)
DeleteTo quibble: the German community came to Washington Heights largely
Deletei e. The 4th Reich
before KAJ started in someone's apartment in 1940 – 41
A kids school isn't a yeshiva? What would you call it? Public school?
Deletethere was a great ת"ח וירא"מ in בית התלמוד called הגה"צ מוה"ר peretz posen זצ"ל. he never even had a collage education, but he was professor of physics at YU collage and at sterns for many decades. when they asked him to give a שיעור or to become a ראש ישיבה there, he replied "i can't teach תורה in the bathroom".
ReplyDeletehe was a פה שני to Rav Hirsch
He, himself attended,and encouraged others to become
ReplyDeleterabbinic personalities and study in
universities in parallel as well if done with the proper guidance.
Second it was impossible for him to have ever compared as per the claim to conservative Judaism since
1. Conservative Judaism only began in early 20th century
2. Conservative Judaism was an American invention
To be fair & balanced,
everything stated previously can be negated by the fact it
was a different era and context.
He likely would operate differently in the present world.
classic example :He gave a referenced
well appreciated oration on Schiller,the German poet.
He however refused to give a similar oration for the more acclaimed Goethe as he considered him to be a menuval stating if he's pushed to do so he would leave town
Chiller he object Lira few objective refused to give one on go go to stating that if he asked he would leave town because that is because he considered go to in Monroeville because he considered him a noble he said and he said that leave town
Listen here and form your own opinion.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxCr2U7DzJ8
again you seem to have missed a very basic point of rav hirsch's שיטה. the fact he attended universty for a short while (he never did get any degree) was only after he already was a great תלמיד חכם and ready to take a position. legally one could not be a rov in germany without a degree (as he himself did not have a degree, he was not recognized by the authorities as a rabbiner). just as an example, rabbi j brauer only ever stepped foot in university 4 times to get his degree, and even that while he was rosh yeshivoh in strassburg. his opposition was to doing the two concurrently which is impossible to succeed in becoming a godol b'torah. that was his very vocal טענה on the hildeshimer rabbiner seminar. although even there the university degree was usually something to do with torah.
ReplyDeleteyour 2nd mistake you make, namely that conservatism only started later, i'm sorry to say exhibits a lack of knowledge of anything rav hirsch. he (together with theנחל אשכול and also rav gottieb fischer etc.) were the main men who stood up and fought against greatz, frankle שר"י and the 'chossid' rappoport of Prague oUNbm. they in thier breslau theological ס"מ were the רשעים who founded conservatism.
your point of when the מנין started is proves the point i made in my earlier post, that moving the sign came first to everything else
again pls first get the facts and then twist them as you wish
While we do surely appreciate the sentiment ,again, you are incorrect factually.
ReplyDelete1. Fraenkel was not conservative Judaism. It was historical Judaism.
Conservative Judaism chose later to trace their movement retroactively to him and his.
2. he went to attend University BEFORE he became even near great
but that of course begs the question: which came first?
3. Re secular studies in his school system which though admittedly he wasn't too happy about it was Most of the classes.
With all that said he would have considered this whole debate and discussion a superfluous distraction
What was Paramount was our place role as descendants of Avraham and Mission through time For the world. With it the corollary of Austritt to bring it to fruition and everything else was relatively minor
point 1; have it your way if it'll help you understand that my statment was correct, that rav hirsch openly equated berlin to breslau, and he certainly held breslau to the source of deviation from יהדות
ReplyDeletepoint 2; i don't understand how you could say such a thing
point 3; by the time of his petiroh already the kodesh had become royv
very important though to point out that the opposition of the yekka’s to YU was not this point of rav Hirsch, but rather a far more fundamental point, that of austrit. It was for that, that they held YU to be a bastion of כפירה ואפיקורסות. if one doesn't get that, then he should find a genuine בקי of rav hirsch to explain it. And it was for that reason that although YU is in the same neighborhood, never will it be mentioned, ever, from the pulpit of KAJ!
I believe R Hershel Schachter was hired as the rav of a short lived Breuers Satellite at one point, but regardless, he definitely often filled in for the Noviminsker, R perlow, many times giving various shiurim.
DeleteSo much for Austritt from YU
REITS
Deletemight on it's own been different
-though subject now to change unless appealed
stay tuned
Hatzola of Washington Heights is the only joint venture between KAJ & YU in the neighborhood but most of the Rebbeim in YU send their children to Bruers for school.
ReplyDeleteWorse? Different? Better?:
ReplyDeleteWhat would R’ Posen and Rav Breuer [ who reportedly when offered a position in YC turned it abjectly down saying he would rather "if need be rather clean the streets " – though remarkably allowed questionable material taught in his own High School ] have said nowadays when so many use their smartphone, and consider it a ma’alah, to learn Torah?
Of lesser importance: While we commend you for your hashkafa and for the most part probably support much of what you contend , still unless you are better grounded in the facts you'll be doing us a disservice in your attempts eg if only #3 was correct,but it wasn't ..Or that Rabbiner wasn't an accredited government recognized rabbi in Oldenburg, emden, and Moravia
ReplyDelete