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Tuesday, August 2, 2022
Siyum Maseches During the 9 Days? Think Again!
Rabbi Nissan Hakakian Rosh Hayeshiva of Yeshivat Tiferet Torah & The Rav of Kehilat HaSepharadim of Monsey Siyum Masechet During the 9 Days? Think Again!
Wrong all of the gedolei haposkim of our dor in america agreed to this minhag of making a siyum in the camps and no one felt it was such a terrible sin that they need to be moche! Don't need to be a hedyot kofeitz berosh
It's not true that the Gedolei Haposkim agreed. All we know is that they didn't publicly protest. The idea that their lack of protest is a Halachic source is dangerous and wrong. Additionally, many of the camps 60 years ago and earlier, were kiruv camps. Many children were being introduced to Yiddishkeit and learning Torah through these camps. Some were frum, but they had never experienced learning properly. If the camps did not provide an experience for them, they may have been lost. We cannot learn from their kulos which were necessary at the time.
Rav Moshe made a public siyum for a camp (or hotel), for everyone to eat.
The Kiruv arguments doesn't fly. Many chasuve people's children went to camp (my father's counselor was Rav Belsky). No one was under any impression that they were sending their kid to a Conservative camp, chas veshalom.
Your first contention does have does have some Merit if he did it more than once during the 9 days. He probably was finishing anyway something..
You second is palpably very poor Kiruv was all over, taken for granted, and was what it was mostly about during those [summer] days, though using often other awesome names
I don't think he is right. The reason we don't eat meat or drink wine from Rosh Chodesh is not because meat brings simcha. It is mourning for the Beis Hamikdash where we brought animals and wine.
What an important and timely message! Even for those not looking to make a Siyum davka in the Nine Days, it's so vital to remember WHY we observe the halachos and minhagim of the Three Weeks and the NineDays. Passionate delivery. Truly inspiring. Thank you!
Rav shmuel kamenetsky in hilchos bein hamitzrim Writes as follows 1)anyone who normally eats with the msayim in the camp /yeshivah dining room are considered his relatives in this regard . The same from Rav Moshe ztl in shmaatsa dmoshe 551:30 same from Rav shlomo zslnan ztl in shalmay moed page 486 2) Rav shmuel shlita agrees that it is difficult to find a leniency for this to be done in girls camp /hotels ,however he is quoted as saying that once this became widespread in all places in yisroel there is no need to Be exacting on them etc .. However he did not say this in regards to restaraunts 3)the aruch hashulchan 28 writes it is disgusting thing to leave the siyum for these days to enable filling his desires with meat which is forbidden during these times However although it is not right Rav shmuel shlita said post facto it allows those eating with him to partake in the siyum
By Chasidim it’s a special intangible do make Siyumim. The Chidushei Harim said that it’s a way to be marbeh ahavas chinum in the nine days. All camps and chasidisher Yeshiva’s make siyumim.
The Aruch Hashulchan ends off, since pushing off a siyum for the 9 days will increase learning, it is worthwhile just for that incentive to learn more. A svora fitting for him.
Wrong all of the gedolei haposkim of our dor in america agreed to this minhag of making a siyum in the camps and no one felt it was such a terrible sin that they need to be moche! Don't need to be a hedyot kofeitz berosh
ReplyDeleteIt's not true that the Gedolei Haposkim agreed. All we know is that they didn't publicly protest. The idea that their lack of protest is a Halachic source is dangerous and wrong.
DeleteAdditionally, many of the camps 60 years ago and earlier, were kiruv camps. Many children were being introduced to Yiddishkeit and learning Torah through these camps. Some were frum, but they had never experienced learning properly. If the camps did not provide an experience for them, they may have been lost. We cannot learn from their kulos which were necessary at the time.
Rav Moshe made a public siyum for a camp (or hotel), for everyone to eat.
DeleteThe Kiruv arguments doesn't fly. Many chasuve people's children went to camp (my father's counselor was Rav Belsky). No one was under any impression that they were sending their kid to a Conservative camp, chas veshalom.
Your first contention does have does have some Merit if he did it more than once during the 9 days. He probably was finishing anyway something..
DeleteYou second is palpably very poor
Kiruv was all over, taken for granted, and was what it was mostly about during those [summer] days, though using often other awesome names
ironic coming from sefardi who never has 9 days anyway
ReplyDeleteTo clarify, sefardim do not eat meat during the 9 days. (Except on Rosh Chodesh, which is permitted).
DeleteI don't think he is right. The reason we don't eat meat or drink wine from Rosh Chodesh is not because meat brings simcha. It is mourning for the Beis Hamikdash where we brought animals and wine.
ReplyDeleteWhat an important and timely message! Even for those not looking to make a Siyum davka in the Nine Days, it's so vital to remember WHY we observe the halachos and minhagim of the Three Weeks and the NineDays. Passionate delivery. Truly inspiring. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteIf "herheishim" decide halacha let's go back 2 weeks when it was mentioned not to take a haircut lkovod the 3 weeks ..
DeleteRav shmuel kamenetsky in hilchos bein hamitzrim
DeleteWrites as follows
1)anyone who normally eats with the msayim in the camp /yeshivah dining room are considered his relatives in this regard . The same from Rav Moshe ztl in shmaatsa dmoshe 551:30 same from Rav shlomo zslnan ztl in shalmay moed page 486
2) Rav shmuel shlita agrees that it is difficult to find a leniency for this to be done in girls camp /hotels ,however he is quoted as saying that once this became widespread in all places in yisroel there is no need to Be exacting on them etc ..
However he did not say this in regards to restaraunts
3)the aruch hashulchan 28 writes it is disgusting thing to leave the siyum for these days to enable filling his desires with meat which is forbidden during these times
However although it is not right Rav shmuel shlita said post facto it allows those eating with him to partake in the siyum
Reb Shmuel didn't write a thing.
DeleteBy Chasidim it’s a special intangible do make Siyumim. The Chidushei Harim said that it’s a way to be marbeh ahavas chinum in the nine days. All camps and chasidisher Yeshiva’s make siyumim.
ReplyDeleteThe same logic goes for most eiruvin in this country.
DeleteBig deal. Others use similar logic.
DeleteEarlier Zionists as well as openConservodox
The Aruch Hashulchan ends off, since pushing off a siyum for the 9 days will increase learning, it is worthwhile just for that incentive to learn more. A svora fitting for him.
ReplyDeletePretty ironic for a sefaradi to give a yid mussar.
ReplyDeleteCan I take a shower if I make a siyum?
ReplyDelete