Saturday, December 17, 2022

Hamodia: Rav Brudny Responds to Rav Twerski on No Chasidishe Representatives on Agudah Moetzes

 "However, the reality is that today in America, the Rebbes of the larger Chassidishe kehillos have not joined the Moetzes. We therefore have to find a different way to create a partnership".

In an interview with the Hamodia newspaper with the Mir Rosh yeshiva Harav Elya Brudny shlita was asked anong other subjects about Rabbi Twerski's comments at the agudah convention that there is no chasiddishe representation on the moetzes. 

Hamodia: full interview Royalty of Torah

Question: In the lifetime of Rav Aharon, along with the Litvisshe Gedolim in the leadership of Agudas Yisrael were also Chassidishe Rebbes, including the Novominsker Rebbe [Harav Nochum Mordechai], the Bluzhever Rebbe, the Boyaner Rebbe, and the Kopyczynitzer Rebbe.

At the recent Agudah convention, Rabbi Aaron Twerski bemoaned the fact that currently, there is no representation of the Chassidishe kehillos in the Moetzes.

Rabbi Twerski is a tayere Yid whom I personally value.

We happen to have more than one family connection.

Rabbi Twerski, zol zein gezunt, had an older brother, Reb Mottel, z”l, who was my father’s accountant. Reb Mottel told a cousin of his who was a close friend of mine how Harav Shmuel Brudny would go through the tax return with him and ask him, “Dos iz glatt kosher?”

“I never saw such a Yid before. I have to convince him that it is perfectly legal…”

Rabbi Twerski’s twin brother, Harav Michel, the Hornisteipler Rebbe in Milwaukee, is a mechutan of our family. His illustrious eidem HaravLeizer Geldzahler, zt”l, was my first cousin.

Reb Aaron Twerski is an ish yadua u’mefursam. He has all the credentials to say his opinion.

The Eibershter was mezakeh me to be in a position of influence in Agudas Yisrael, and it is from that viewpoint that I would like to reply to what he said.

There is nothing that, at any level of Agudas Yisrael leadership, whether Rabbinic or lay, is wanted more than to have as partners the Chassidishe leadership of Klal Yisrael, and overtures have been made to try to achieve this goal.

The Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah is intended to represent the leadership of Klal Yisrael that is aligned with the Agudah. Just like Roshei Yeshivah represent the Litvishe olam haTorah, the Admorim represent the Chassidishe olam haTorah. That is how the Moetzes of Agudas Yisrael in Eretz Yisrael works, and that’s how it worked in the first generation in America.

However, the reality is that today in America, the Rebbes of the larger Chassidishe kehillos have not joined the Moetzes.

We therefore have to find a different way to create a partnership.

A few years ago, a forum was established in which Rabbanim and Dayanim representing some of the Chassidishe kehillos, along with Litvishe Rabbanim at the helm of the Agudas Yisrael, held several meetings. During COVID, a key member of this forum, Harav Dovid Olewski, zt”l, Rosh Yeshivah of Ger, was niftar, and the meetings did not continue.

Ideas have been floated trying to come up with creative solutions for this issue.

If there is a creative way to establish leadership forums where the two kochos could be united, then members of the Moetzes of Agudah would be glad to be mishtatef.

In an informal way, there already is tremendous collaboration with the Chassidishe velt, particularly regarding the threat to chinuch in New York state. I have been by the Satmar Rebbe Harav Zalman Leib Teitelbaum, shlita, on at least two occasions at meetings in Wiliamsburg, and have worked closely with his son, Harav Yaakov Ber, the Sigeter Rav of Boro Park.

I have also visited the Satmar Rebbe Harav Aharon Teitelbaum, shlita, and the Vizhnitzer Rebbe, shlita, in Monsey about this issue. On the level of askanim, I consider myself very close to Reb Moshe Dovid Neiderman, Reb Yossie Grunwald of Pupa, among others. Anashim achim anachnu.

I grew up in Williamsburg. I never felt like an outsider in the Chassidishe world. When I learned in Lakewood 50 years ago, Litvishe and Chassidishe learned b’chavrusa, and we were and have remained yedidim ne’emanim — closest friends. We never felt any level of estrangement with Chassidim; kulanu b’nei ish echad anachnu [we’re all children of the same father]. One Ribbono Shel Olam, one Torah, and one Yiddishkeit. So it’s all di zelbe zach.

Can the Rosh Yeshivah please give us a brachah?

May we be zocheh to be mamlich each other’s malchus shel Torah, and we should all become an agudah achas b’malchus Shakkai. May it be b’karov, b’karov, b’karov. Like we say in Maoz Tzur — d’chei admon b’tzel tzalmon, hakeim lanu ro’eh shivah. Hamodia



29 comments:

  1. Which credentials does he have exactly? Just because R Brudny shares a family connection with Twerski then he can say what he wants? Sorry doesn’t work that way. And how about the part when he said he “no longer feels comfortable at the convention” how is that ok to say? Interesting how it’s always the Litvaks having to apologize and explain to Chassidim, not the other way around, וד״ל

    ReplyDelete
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    1. It seems this comment comes from קנאה!

      Delete
    2. @anonymous 3:09

      This is precisely where it's said כל הפוסל, פסול. And that is ממומו. No where in the original comment does one see envy. There's clearly disagreement, but not envy.

      Delete
  2. What is one supposed to take out of this?
    That the organizational leader leadership already are selling out or that he is savvy what to say to a Chassidish predominated magazine?

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    1. Keep your nasty deragatory comments in your belly.
      Are you even a contemporary of Rabbi Brudny?
      If you have something nice to say ONLY then should you say it.
      Otherwise close the zipper, like we used to say XYZ!

      Delete
    2. @anonymous 3:12

      Practice what you preach. קשור לעצמך!

      Delete

  3. Predictable
    Agudah is supposed to run after them to gain adherents? How is that going to work?

    Aguda used to be about collective achdus, which would mean each grouping supposedly are to give up a little to be part of the umbrella
    Chassidim ran away davka from all that .
    They still got to come sit on the dais for national events and set part of the agenda despite that
    So now you are prepared to go to run after them, like some abused women will run back to their abuser

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  4. Non chassidim should totally walk off once and for all. Let Agudah and rabbis be dealing with that instead

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  5. The Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah is intended to represent the leadership of Klal Yisrael that is aligned with the Agudah.

    Reb Elchonon Wasserman hy"d was quite clearly against this. There is only one Torah, not the 'Torah of those that are aligned with the Agudah' and the Torah of those that are not.

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  6. 1 that Rav Brudny felt comfortable in Williamsburg does not answer that Rav Twerski does not feel comfortable at Agudah There is a cetain varmkeit to chassidus and elitism among the litvishe

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    1. For all the so called Chassidishe varmkeit, I see hundreds of Chassidishe families from Boro Park and Williamsburg moving into Lakewood, I never once saw a litvish family move to BP or Williamsburg, והמבין יבין

      And btw when R Elya Brudny was growing up in 1950s Williamsburg it was 80% Litvish/non-Chassidish. Satmar had a maybe 100 families. Get your facts straight and stop with this anti-litvish (pro Chassidish) propaganda.

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  7. Yedidim Nemanim in the days of R Aharon why don't you ask the Vyelioler and the Bostoner about being rodeph for thei chassidishe levush in the days of R Aharon

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  8. Novaminsj, Blushov, Boyan, Kapushnitz, each back then maybe had a minyan if Chassidim! No big USA Chassidus was ever a part of the Aggudah here. So luz up

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    1. Most of their present chevra once were more less or less AgudiStS Or young Israel people. But they left the hard legwork of the intervening decades to others and ran away to prance in Levush and demean the simpletons who stayed on

      There are thousands of stragglers and floater chassidim alienated from the chassidish establishment and organizational corruption who would benefit from being a part of agudah.
      How would getting chassidish establishment figures, as being discussed as expected, cause those families to come on board??
      Recruit them as individuals and family members, not as cogs of some group.

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    2. In those the whole aguda was a few dozen minyanim big.

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  9. how many talmidim chassidim or mispallelim you have is not the measure of a gadol. were all ziknei gedolei yisroel in our youth oriented society you don't understand that ziknei gedolei yisroel are a generation closer to har sinai

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  10. how are the members of moetzei chosen? How come none of the Roshei Yeshiva of Torah Vodaath the mother of American Yeshivas is not represented

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    1. Torah Vodaas had Rav Yaakov Kamenetsky and then Rav Pam on the Moetzes. Rav Gedelia Schorr was on the nesius and a frequent keynote speaker at the conventions. If Rav Yisroel Reisman wanted to be on the Moetzes he probably could be but despite being such a public figure and thought of as such an askan he actually does not involve himself in any type of askunus on issues that have no affect on either Torah Vodaas or his shul.

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    2. And ehat would have they produced in the past generation? bobkes

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    3. Rav Yerucham Olshin, Rav Elya Ber and Rav Elya Brudny etc. are people you consider to be bubkas? Who and what are you?

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  11. Ask the current members of Moetzei each individually to list the ten biggest Talmidei Chachomim in America better yet if they have a shaila who will they go to? Nothing to do with Chassidish the members of Moetzei are speakers, pedagogues who go to conventions. I am not saying they are not talmidei chachomim but my father used to say to become a talmid .you need to kvetch the benk. R Chaim and R Elyashiv did not go to every convention R Shmuel at the siyum haShas said that originally the hadran was given to R Dovid but he did not want to miss his seder. That was a gadol

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  12. Ask any Ben Torah who are the ten biggest Talmidei Chachamim in America are. Will a single one of them be a Mo'etzes member?
    Since Reb Moshe passed away, they did not have the biggest any more. The opinion of Reb Meir Stern is קובע in Lakewood more than anyone else's, even though he is not on the Mo'etzes. Most Yeshivos were כופף themselves to Reb Zelig more than any Mo'etzes members, especially non-Harry Yeshivos.

    Among those who learn and know Torah, Mo'etzes membership is totally meaningless. In Lakewood, nobody who wants to know the Torah, a new Shaalah leHalacha or to talk in learning on a Sugya that isn't obvious, goes to any Mizrach Vant Yid. Reb Moshe Shimon, Reb Eliyahu, Reb Yehuda etc. are way more respected in learning.

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    1. There is serious zilzul or even mevazeh Talmidey Chachomim in this post. If people like Rav Yeruchem Olshin or Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin aren't Yeshivish enough or big enough Talmidey Chachomim for you then the chisorin is in you not the Moetzes. Were the Yeshivas led by Rav Moshe and Rav Yaakov not yeshivas that you so snobbily describe as "harry yeshivas" ?

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  13. So people like Rav Ruderman were not the biggest? And as a former Passiac talmid I don't see why Rav Meir Stern who has no involvement in klal inyonim should the the kovea of haskafa in that area. And since when he is a kovea in Lakewood at all? How many people do you know don't apply for government programs due to his opposition to doing so?

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  14. The fact is that’s the 10 litvasha Rosh Hayeshiva that have over a hundred talkmidim at any given time are not on the moetzes 1 - Reb elya Ber 2 - - Reb mayer stern 3- reb shlomo Feivel 4- reb elya chaim 5 - reb Mutty Dick 6- reb elya Kanarak 7- Ausband 8- reb u m kanarak 9 - reb shalom Zimmerman 10- reb mendel Slomowitz so most yeshivleit have no reps

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    1. With the limited exception of Rav Elya Ber none of those Roshey Yeshiva have any involvement in Klal work. I don't see them being candidate for the Moetzes. No one ever thought of Rav Shmeul Berenbaum or Rav Paler as candidates for the Moetzes for the same reason. Rav Yeruchem Olshin and Rav Malkiel Kotler have a lot more talmidim than them as well. I'll stop here not to engage in Rosh Yeshiva comparison talk.

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    2. So what? By that criteria Rav Elyah Chazan and Rav Shmuel Brudny were far more worthy of being on the Moetzes than Rav Moshe or Rav Yaakov. They were giving the biggest most popular Shiurim in the late 70s and early 80s. Way bigger than Rav Moshe. And Rav Yaakov wasn't giving shiur or even involved with any specific Yeshiva at all.

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    3. Reb Mendel Slomowitz says a ninth grade Shiur. I don't think he is part of this list.

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  15. Chassidim care primarily about "how many brigades do he have?"

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