The silent pandemic
When people all around us are falling ill, being hospitalized and dying in droves, it is not very difficult to recognize that we are in the midst of a pandemic. Sometimes however the ravages of a pandemic are not so easy to discern. No one is on a respirator. No one is dying in the hospital. But behind closed doors, hearts are breaking, and families are being destroyed, often they are beyond repair.
Pandemics are devastating affliction that strike far and wide, affliction for whose causes there are no ready defenses and for whose effects there are no ready remedies. During the recent corona pandemic, microorganisms caused horrendous physical damage without any means of treatment.
During the silent epidemic that has been ravaging our community for many years, the damaging effects are social and emotional. Families and relationships are being shattered by estrangement and alienation more than ever before in our history. Parents and children are becoming estranged and young children are being alienated from their parents and grandparents with increasing frequency.
There is no doubt that this is a pandemic, but it is a silent epidemic. The victims are too afraid and too ashamed to make a public outcry. They are afraid that if they speak out, they will further reduce their already slim chances of reconciliation. They are also reluctant to reveal their humiliating situations because they may have to pay a high social price when it comes to schools and to shidduchim.
There's little mystery about the causes of this silent epidemic and the identity of the microorganisms. Our media has shown a bright light and this epidemic over the last several years. Numerous articles and letters to the editor have identified the cause as the explosion of psychotherapy. Everyone is blaming the therapists.
Based on everything I've seen and heard, I believe that this is indeed the case, but it is not my purpose in this article to rail against the therapists. On the contrary, I think therapy is a wonderful thing. I myself have availed myself of its services in times of grief and extreme stress, and I've benefited greatly. But I do agree that some therapists albeit well-intentioned, can cause more harm than good, and I would like to describe a path going forward that can enhance the benefit of therapy and eliminate the harm.
As faithful jews, we believe that true happiness and fulfillment can only be found by adhering to the guidelines of the Torah. Violations of those guidelines may sometimes result in momentary physical emotional gratifications, but the spiritual damage that results will ultimately erode any short-lived benefits. Unfortunately, the psychotherapy community uses guidelines that are often in conflict with the Torah’s guidelines and will often result in יעצנו רע .
For instance, a religious woman tells a therapist that her mother is constantly giving her unsolicited advice about how to bring up her children and that she is also having an as negative impact on these children. The therapist and the client discussed the situation at length, and in the end, the therapist advises the client that if her mother is toxic, she should break off relations with her. This is the course of actions psychotherapy mandates. “you go where the client is.” and disregards the effects on the mother and it also disregards the ultimate damage to the client, who in effect no longer has a mother. It is only concerned with the immediate relief for the client.
From a Torah perspective, However, there are important other considerations, such as obligations that come under the heading of honoring parents and the unilateral denial of the grandmother's right to have a relationship with her grandchildren.
Sometimes, the client also seeks daas Torah by consulting a specious rabbi who endorses the therapist advice without ever hearing from the mother, something absolutely forbidden by halacha. The rabbi would say, “I didn't issue a psak. I just said that if what you say is true then you should break with your mother.” A rabbi that makes such a statement is not legitimate; His views are not daas Torah. he's being disingenuous and knows perfectly well that the client will take his response as psak and go no further. If such an argument were valid, the law forbidding a rabbi from hearing one side without the other present would become meaningless.
I believe there is only one solution. The therapudic services provided to our communities must be brought into compliance with the requirements of the Torah. This can be accomplished/ I know a number of excellent therapists, men and women, who have introduced a synthesis of Torah values and psychology to their practices with great success. It can and should be done.
Here is what I would suggest as a community-wide program.
A) A manual of instructions for frum therapist should be produced. Each therapist should be required to study and learn the manual.
B) One designated Beis Din in every major population center should test the therapist on their understanding of their obligations and restrictions according to the Torah. The therapist would then be issued certificates of approval, a kind of semicha for therapists, which they would be required to display on their walls. It would be assur gamur for anyone to engage a therapist who does not display such a certificate.
C) Before advising a client to estrange or alienate, the therapist will be required to present the case to the original beis din, who would invite all affected parties to be present, as the halacha requires.
D) The names of people who estrange and alienate without the permission of bais din will be posted publicly in community publications. They would not be given aliyas in shul, and other such honors would be withheld. Furthermore, they would be socially shunned and would find it difficult to get shidduchim. The pandemic feeds on silence.
This is just a rough outline of what needs to be done. I am sure that if major organizations such as Agudas Israel Nefesh and others got involved they can develop a very effective program.
I was once invited to a meeting of Broken ties an association of alienated parents and grandparents. It was an eerie experience. Pain blanketed that room from wall to wall. It was palpable in the very air. Speaking to people afterwards, I discovered that in almost all the cases, therapist had sanctioned the rifts.
If the therapist had followed these guidelines, good results with solutions could have been found and so much unnecessary pain could have been avoided. Moreover, the clients themselves would have benefited from a genuine Torah based therapy and the spiritual and emotional rewards of compliance with the mitzvah of the Torah.
Rabbi Yaakov Yosef Reinman
Lakewood, NJ
(Submitted following recent meetings for estranged parents and grandparents)
What jewish law says a rabbi cannot pasken issur vegetarian whithout hearing the other side. This is not chosen mishpat. You cannot write off these rabbis as not keeping halachah without telling us more about this halachah. I never heard of it.
ReplyDeleteYour ignorance speaks for itself.
DeleteOf course the parent is going to downplay their actions. I’ve had a pretty traumatic childhood (physical, emotional and verbal abuse) and there is still some pretty crazy things that go on when I get involved with them although I have not cut them off at all but parents like these never see that they’re the problem. They blame everyone else. When you go to a night out and hear all their sob stories I can guarantee you that it’s not an accurate representation of what’s going on.
ReplyDeleteKudos to the victims for standing up for themselves and not taking the abuse anymore.
". They blame everyone else. When you go to a night out and hear all their sob stories I can guarantee you that it’s not an accurate representation of what’s going on."
DeleteAnd who guarantees that your observation is accurate.
Who guarantees that you don't have your own issues and that is what's driving you crazy but your therapists analyzed your relationship with your parent's and blamed them for conceiving you.
You’re probably right that I have issues from being beaten up when I was 21 and engaged. I have issues from having silent treatment for weeks from my mother. I have issues from being told I was fat and not to eat when I weighed 120 lbs. I have many many issues.
Delete" it is not very difficult to recognize that we are in the midst of a pandemic."
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone even know what Hashems Shocking message is for klal yisroel for this horrific Coronavirus pandemic Mageifa?
THE SHOCKING MESSAGE:
Every tragedy has a wake up call message directly from Hashem that your not going to find in any sefer in the world or read in any newspaper from a Gadol Hador or speaker saying about the tragedy. What is the shocking message of the Coronavirus Epidemic-that shut down the entire world starting January 2020-that has already killed millions of innocent lives of all ages? what does Coronavirus mean? Kara-Na-Aveiros,, call out to your aveiros-my loving children klal yisroel-to wake up & do teshuva. But the message from Hashem doesn't end there, whats the other name for Coronavirus that everyone calls it? i forgot, Covid, what does that mean? what does Covid/Honor do to a person? what does it say in Pirkei Avos? it removes a person from the world, & thats exactly what Covid is doing right now, its removing millions of people from the world as we are still in the midst of this terrible mageifa effecting the ENTIRE world. Let us all ask ourselves who made it be called these crazy names? where does it come from? the dictionary? is this just coincidence or is it a straight sign & direct message from Hashem that its time for all of klal yisroel to wake up & do teshuva? you think about this.
May we all wake up together as one loving nation and do serious Teshuva and Achdus together ASAP so Hashem can send Mashiach already bkarov
every abusive parent will say its all the therapist's fault, and its the therapist who destroyed their family. but as far as i know it's usually the children who want to cut off or cant function in life. and many times each child of the same family can have a different therapist, and the majority of the kids in the family cut off, each on their own.
ReplyDeletejust until now there was more stigma attached to this situation, and it reflected badly on the child, or at least the child thought so, so he/she didn't break off. the cards were stacked against the kids in many ways. now that the tables have turned, the parents want to reassert control (although there are still many reasons in frum society making it very difficult for children to break off even if they want to - financial, marriage, family pressure etc) but you cant control your kids as these parents found out the hard way. kibud ov vaim is a mitzvah bein adam lamakom, and therefore the parents should not mention it. and btw not suprisingly abusive parents always talk about kibud av voaim!
It wont help to lay on the guilt that the child is going against the torah, its not really the parents' business.. Instead they should focus only on fixing the relationship!
Actually, Kibud Av Va'em is a Mitzva bein adam lachaveiro and bein adam lamakom.
DeleteAnd just because abusive parents talk about it doesn't make it untrue.
The parents DO have a right to demand that the children respect them and treat them with honor, and the Torah is quite clear about it.
Nebach a troll trying to twist the Torah to justify the rishus of modern secular psychotherapy. Look at what the gemara says about the kibud av of Rav Tarfon
DeleteActually if the parent is being abusive the gemara says the eitza is to run away
DeleteRabi Tarfon was an adult and he knew that he can take it. Very different than a child.
Deleteeven if parents have a right to demand honor and respect, demanding it will usually backfire on them.
Deleteand it's important to know that the shulchan aruch says parents are not allowed to make it difficult for their children to respect them and honor them,אסור לאדם להכביד עולו על בניו . ולדקדק בכבודו עמהם שלא יביאם לידי מכשול אלא ימחול ויעלים עיניו מהם. and the criteria of this varies according to the tolerance level of the generation.
Anon 3:27 - you are missing the point. A child must still honor his parents, and any therapist/rabbi who tells him not to, is telling him to do an aveira. Yes, there are individual people doing stupid things. But that is not the issue here. The issue here is the wholesale aveiros done through people who claim to know what they are talking about.
DeleteAnonymous 3:27 PM.
DeleteYou write "and the criteria of this varies according to the tolerance level of the generation" You sound like you are a reform Rabbi. You are heading to that direction. You are using sources from the Talmud and your are interpreting them according to the generation. Keep on going in the footsteps of Rabbi Abraham Geiger, Rabbi Isaac Meyer Wise, Shmuel Holdheim, Israel Jacobson and Leopold Zunz. they were also frum yeshivish jews like you and they couldn't deal with the Torah and Mesorah so they made slight changes "according to the tolerance level of the generation". And like you they had sources and lomdus for what ever they did without feeling guilty about it. But their children didn't feel guilty in the first place so they were able to have the cake and eat it..... Where are they today?
You better ask yourself.
So far all the comments here are from people who have no clue what they are talking about. This is NOT an issue of abusive parents but of unstable kids/Spouses who turn to rabbis and therapists who advise them to cut themselves off from their parents. This is a phenomenon happening in the wider world and had nothing to do with abuse whatsoever. The only “victims” are the parents and family who are suffering terribly for years because of ignorant and haughty rabbis, and therapists who have no clue what they are doing.
ReplyDeleteHe/She/They. There can be elements of both. And EVERYONE if given the chance convince themselves and claim abuse
DeleteWhat an unbelievably bad set of ideas. I'm speechless that a person of Rabbi Reinman's caliber would suggest them.
ReplyDeleteThere is no question that there are some very unqualified therapists out there. There is also no question that there are some highly qualified and exceptional therapists out there. But even the less-qualified understand the dangers inherent in suggesting alienation and generally would not encourage unless there was a strong reason to do so.
Moreover, people are not lambs and don't do as they're instructed, especially when it comes to something as harsh as alienating from family. That's a difficult and very painful for anyone to take and very few people would do so easily or without tremendous forethought. I know a few people who've had to take this step and it was gut-wrenching in every case.
I've spoken to parents who've been alienated from their children and while every story is unique, there are many similarities. They were not always innocent and many times, they were downright abusive and harmful.
Additionally, the idea that a therapist will submit to some random beis din is a flight of fancy. There are professional standards that can be insisted upon and this is not one of them. Try shaming the ones who didn't and get ready for a defamation lawsuit that you'll never recover from.
These are not just bad ideas - they're downright ridiculous.
If you’re shocked to hear rabbi Reinman’s proposals, just wait to hear all the names of well respected Rabbis who advised young couples to go against the Torah and turn against their parents. You’ll be truly shocked! You obviously do not understand the severity of the issue. Nuff said.
DeleteFor beginners we need to separate two topics here. 1) A family unit (married) where one of the children/parents are experiencing alienation. 2) PAS Parental alienation syndrome – which is generally in instances of divorce. Their a far cry from the same topic, although there may be elements that cross over. I don’t begin to understand why these two issues are being packaged and addressed together? Mixing together these issues causes confusion and makes it impossible to identify and address the source.
ReplyDeleteAs far as #2 it is patently false to claim this is a silent pandemic! This is a pandemic that has been screaming from the rooftops for years to no avail! The alienation of children in divorce many times starts from one of the parents (https://drcraigchildressblog.com/), and therapists exacerbate it. The fact is the best parent is both parents – period (excluding severe instances of necessary amputation). As torah jews there are three mandatory partners in a person and amputating any partner is serial murder (See ramba”n Mishpatim 21;15, and R Chaim Shmulevitz explains that Shlomo Hamelech was confident that a women willing to kidnap – remove a parent would also physically kill the child).
R Reiman if you are attempting to address #2 your suggestions are not even a good joke, no Beis din, no Aguda and no nefesh has been willing to lift a pinky to attempt the slightest change – with all due respect, the Rav is or extremely uninformed, or intentionally trying to make believe this will just go away.
Something is corrupted in the elementary outlook of the three partners, distancing one is not viewed as an amputation that requires a professional – as a physical amputation would require, until this is recognized and internalized properly all the solutions presented are meaningless.
Assuming The Rav is only addressing #1 – the above point would also apply. Any form of alienation from a parent is an amputation that would need extensive professionals and then “Das Torah” that is equipped to pasken literally the pros and cons of amputations.
Nobody is pro these therapists – and most of these therapists are not equipped to decide on amputations even if they were not corrupted. The shopping list the Rav is presenting would not change anything at all.
Once again – the fact that #2 is obvious to all – makes one ponder why would anybody in their right mind try to paint this as a “silent pandemic” as if the public, Rabbanim etc. knew they would be turning over the world over child alienation יסכר פי דוברי שקר!
The blood of alienated children screaming should at the very least drive one not to minimize, cover up and make believe there’s an isolated issue with therapists.
אמת מארץ תצמח
listen to this rabbi biala hes a holy person
DeleteMany people manage to muddy the waters of this sugya by bringing in extraneous nonsense, irrelevant points.
ReplyDelete1. A child must honor and respect his parents, as the Torah commands.
2. Even a parent who is mentally ill, abusive, (perhaps) non-frum, is included in this obligation, just like all other obligations בין אדם לחבירו. A person has to pay back a loan to a mean, abusive person, so too must he honor a mean, abusive parent.
3. This Halacha is governed by the Torah, not feelings. Even if keeping this Halacha makes a person feel bad, pained, uncomfortable, or anything else, they must keep it.
4. Some might say that a person does not have to keep a Mitzvas Aseh if it costs him more than 1/5th of his possessions. Unlikely this applies to an obligation to another person (are you exempt from paying back a loan if it is worth more than your possessions?), but even if it did, someone has to assess the level of pain caused to a child through a 'toxic' parent, is it worth 1/5th of his possessions?
5. This is a decision of בין אדם לחבירו, and there is no logic that could allow a posek to pasken without hearing both sides. If a child does not act appropriately and the parent returns with 'toxic' behavior, the child can change their behavior instead of cutting ties. The child may be exaggerating, he/she may be lying, there may be extra details. Only by hearing both sides can a decision be made.
6. If a 'Rav' (usually a person with a tie, ninth grade second seder shoel umeishiv) ignores both sides, even with a caveat of 'if what you're saying is true', he is irresponsible and is an illegitimate advisor.
7. Therapists may be great and wonderful, but human nature is human nature, and the power that they wield will go to their heads. Not all will fall for it, some have a conscience, some see the opening of Geihenom in front of them, some see the responsibility of their actions. But there are some unscrupulous people out there, and a person who wants a Heter will find them.
8. Therapists and mainly 'Rabbanim' whose names are on a shame list will quickly see the price of their actions. They may sue, they may claim they were right, they may say 'if you knew what I knew', but deep down they will know that it is a power trip and nothing else.
9. Sadly, in this town filed with Torah, we find that the Talmid Chacham and his Torah is the last person whose opinion is cared for. 30 year old women who took a course and heard some stories have their opinions cared for more than experienced elderly Talmidei Chachamim. People respect power instead of Torah. Sad.
UNLESS that Bais Din you are proposing can beat up a parent who is beating up their kids or putting into jail the parent that raped a kid, that Bais Din wont help much. A lot of the problem is the expectation of families to stay united..in old times many a child never saw their parents again after leaving to Yeshiva or to marriage so you didnt have support groups of "aliemated" grandparents etc. Curious: would your proposed Bais Din allow Hyrcanus to run away from home? Let sons of Korach leave their fathers advice? Tell Achans kids they did right by covering up for him?
ReplyDeleteI took a runaway to Rav Sheinberg ZTL who told her to stay away and told her thst he himself had to run away as a youth.
Yes, there are unwarranted rifts in families. But there are far more times when we close our eyes to abuse that is horrific.
The sheer chutzpah of these abusive defective parents ranting and raving against Rabonim and claiming the Rabonim are "going against Torah" is literally unbelievable.
ReplyDeleteThis whole movement is cheaper traif and shouldn't have a platform. Feh!
Wow, take a chill. I suspect you are an individual who has alienated themselves from their parents. You are getting super nervous from people expressing the truth!
DeleteHow ironic.
Deletewe are learn to honor talmidei chachomim from the extra ES which is stated twice in the verse Honor your father and mother, First and foremost you most honor your parents and in addition you should honor the Rabbis if he is a true talmid chochom. But for a lowlife rabbi (who's entire criteria is that he TLs the establishment) to come along and advise people to discontinue having a relationship with their parents? How ironic . Just because we are in Ikvese Demeshicha that doesn't give rabonim a right to enforce the Chutzpa Yasgay.
The sheer chutzpa of these therapists and their proxies the rabonim are going against the Torah and are in the category of Masit umediach. You are %100 correct the entire Ir Hanidachas "shouldn't have a platform" and should be burnt and totally consumed.
It’s amazing how ignorant people are. Do any of you realize how in many cases (not all) it is the parents fault? Telling them the Torah says you have to honor your parents regardless will make no difference and won’t help the situation. If you are trying to help the situation you have to handle it responsibly, yelling kibud av veeim will not improve a single relationship or bring a child back to his/her parents.
ReplyDeleteWhen hashem's children go off the derech R"L you will probably be מטיח דברים כלפי מעלה to justify these lost souls . Keep it up.
DeleteThe issue is not the child, the issue is the person supporting his aveira and advising him to do it.
DeleteAlienating an abusive parent is not a lack of respect. The abused child will now not yell, curse and embarrass their parent anymore. Alienating is a self imposed galus. When gedolim of yesteryear whom we idolize went into galis for years and did not speak to or see their parents, were they reshaim?! No! They were tzaddikim!
ReplyDeleteIf an adult child needs to distance themselves from a parent in order to heal emotionally it is a self imposed galus. Stop judging. You yes you have plenty of areas that need serious improvement. Dont judge a yid in pain. Ever.
What a krumme sevara! I hope you don't dance at Adirei Hatorah with such kinds of sevaros.
DeleteA person who pushes 'ignore' on his phone when a parent calls, is doing an avera. What does that have to do with galus?
And this 'don't judge a Yid in pain' is just woke nonsense. The Torah tells us what to do. The therapist in pain because they cannot go on power trips convincing kids to cut off ties with their parents can and should be judged.
I'm glad you are famliar with adirei haTorah. Didn't see you there either. Since you are so Torahdik and glatt I am sure you went and yelled at the rebbes (pick your choice) who fought with their siblings after their father died, ripping thousands of chasidishe families apart and went to arkaos!! That does not bother you. You know why? Because you are a small little person who makes up aveiros - pushing ignore is an aveira. Haha! You don't understand or relate to thinking people. Drivel on.
Deleteראה נתתי לפניך היום וכו' את הטוב ואת הרע ובחרת בחיים
DeleteEvery yid has bechira no matter if he is in pain or not. No one is judging anyone here. Everyone is Judging all the therapists and rabonim who act as detachment brokers to help children violate their natural instinct which happens to be a torah obligation as well. It is these רשעים that assist sons and daughters lose their sanity and cut themselves off from one of their most precious assets.
This pandemic is silent indeed.
ReplyDeleteInstead of addressing it commenters will fall so low by covering it up to justify their actions. They silence it by saying how wicked their parents are. When in essence these children are turning sidrei bereshis around.
Rabosei, this is the battle we are in . Let's not lose focus of where we are and what we are facing.
We need rachmei shomayim. Stop pouring cold water and make all parents into criminals. We are all children of someone and we all hope to be parents. If this doesn't stop this trend all of us will et hit by this plague in one way or another.
Rabbi Reinman describes a case in one of his books.
ReplyDeleteA parent remarried and a child does not like it. Is that abusive?! Is that toxic?! Is that an excuse not be mechabed a parent or step-parent?!
Read his novels and weep.
Since everyone is so concerned about the children being oiver aveiros, maybe we should make an organization to prevent parents from abusing children and being oiver lifnei iver. We can call it Broken Blocks.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why you won’t post my posts. Why is it fine for people to publish lies - that someone is commanded to respect someone who abuses them. This is a lie and dangerous. The same amud of Gemara people are quoting with rav tarfon says that rav assi left him mom because she was saying inappropriate things to him.
ReplyDeleteReally not a great look when a group of people are shouting at another that they better get some unearned respect because “it’s a mitzva”
ReplyDeleteanon 7:20 Well put !!! 🤣🤣
DeleteIt sounds like you are influenced by the Democrats and media.
Deleteאנו כחמורים
ReplyDeleteWhatever people feel about the above debate it is still important for therapists and rabbonim to constantly understand their position of power and never abuse or exploit it. I sure most of the times it is not a conscious effort to exploit their power but ultimately it is upon them to constantly check themselves and make sure whatever they do is not for themselves and not let their position get to their head. I think this is the underlying frustration that many people are feeling and it is coming out in many forms.
ReplyDeleteJust wondering, when one parent used a young child as a pawn in a divorce, and then when the child gets older and realized what happened and how they were used, are they still "mechuyav" to maintain a relationship with the controlling parent?
ReplyDeleteWhere will you search for the answer to this question? Yoreh Deah Siman 240 should be the first step. This exemption is not mentioned at all.
DeleteWhen would someone receive Malkus or Missa interestingly.
ReplyDeleteWhen there are witnesses and also
Hasra'ah
And the person declares he doesn't care (leaving out rare exceptions)
Which person would foolishly do that?
Only someone who is in pain.
Isn't it interesting?
Whoever talks this way is שוטה רשע וגס רוח. Are you suggesting that based on one Gemara which relates something about an אמורא which we have zero השגה in, then that gives children the right to violate basic fundamentals of Yiddishkeit? Do yourself a favor, go learn the Sugyos in Kiddushin about kibbud av and stop selecting one piece like an עם הארץ גמור
ReplyDeleteFunny! You are the one selecting one piece. The people love to say that based on rav tarfon you must be mekayeim kibud av. But then you skip the next few lines of gemara which clearly show that not in every case that be done and that there are cases where running away is necessary and therefore rav assi ran away. As to your calling me an am haaretz - you are acting like a baby -calling names.
DeleteSince when do fun unzere people care to be called שוטה וגס רוח. So far fun unzere people got away with murder. Untill w
ReplyDeleteThere is no stop to this pandemic fun unzere will keep on destroying families, guide children to divorce themselves from parents RL. These fun unzere remain the same shaina yid and are accepted in the community with royalty.
They don't care to be called a שוטה.
They forgot that they will need to face a din vecheshbon.
We must act now in a language that talks to them.
TOTally
DeleteAmazing but not surprising to see all those advocating for parents and their suffering here do so with common sense and in a respectful moral manner. For some reason though those who are pro alienation start ranting and raving, and start saying krumeh svaros. Should tell you all you need to know. The pro-alienators are afraid of the truth. This entire epidemic is a violation of basic moral principles and anyone who says otherwise is a fool and dangerous. Again, this is not an issue of child abuse/ abusive parents! It’s about bad people in control who cannot help themselves but to ruin families and relationships.
ReplyDeleteMy wife had a skin condition. After medication didn't help we went to some lady that helps thru energy. And she advised that all her issues are from her mother.
ReplyDelete