The primary in our city and the hishtadlus toward that goal is to expand and sustain our Torah life in the most effective way possible. To strengthen our living conditions, including the protection of our health, are all for the purpose of enabling the expansion of Torah, which is כי הם חיינו ואורך ימינו
It is inconceivable to lower the standard of Torah learning which will certainly detract from the goal, as a means of protecting and safeguarding from health related concerns, utilizing the goal as a vehicle to achieve the means. While there is no question that safeguarding ones health is an absolute obligation which may not be taken lightly, the responsibility of the hishtadlus is that the measures taken do not interfere or overstep the bounds of the Torah itself as defined by the earlier generations.
What exactly is this letter supposed to mean?
ReplyDeleteThat draconian and hysterical measures which gives away your bechira to other humans, in conjunction with certain humans using the current and previous health situation and crisis as a means to become powerful over you, is outright wrong and unhelpful to anyone.
DeleteInstead, be careful and vigilant about your health. But, do not hand over your bechira to others. Do not give others power over you. Make your own responsible decisions. You were commanded by the Ribono Shel Olam ובחרת בחיים! And that primarily means your spiritual life. An importantsecondary is your physical life. This is an important and timely reminder of our priorities.
Actually, it says nothing of the sort.
DeleteI don't know what it does say, but there is no hint of your diatribe
Diatribe is quite impressive as diatribes go.
DeleteVery nice letter not to close down the yeshivos hakedoshos
ReplyDeleteFinally the Rabbanim aren't letting themselves be bullied. Had we done this after pesach, we'd already be over it.
ReplyDeleteThe askanim were obsesed with Murphy and they shut down yeshivos in exchange to keep murph happy. The guy whose policies caused thousands of seniors to die and millions who lost jobs.
ReplyDeleteI am trying and trying to find some direction, but I have not found it. What exactly do these letters say? A medical opinion about covid19? A halachic opinion? There has not been one medical source quoted, or a halachic source.
ReplyDeleteWhen one person writes a clear Halachic opinion, one way or the other, it will be worth more than all of these גילוים put together. Save the paper and figure out the halacha, and tell us what it is.
Dont look too hard. Harav Eliyahu Levine shlita is a world class posek he feels he has a right to write this letter.
DeleteThe credibility of a Posek is his psak halacha. His feelings are not the issue. Here he did not write a psak, as all of his other letters. I am begging him, and anyon eelse, if you have a psak, let us see it. Until then, we do not have anything to rely on.
Deleteare you saying that unless its a halacha in shulchan aruch there is no such thing as asking a sheila. what if ts not a halachic ruling but something that gedolim give a psak on.
DeleteDo you rather a search in otzar hachochma that spits out mareh mekomos and than posted on websites as a halchic article is that what you are looking for?
No, I did not say that.
DeleteIf Rav Eliyahu Levin, or any Posek, wrote a letter stating that the halacha regarding the dangers of coronavirus is such and such, I would be satisfied. But he didn't, and neither did anyone else. They wax poetic about the importance of Torah, they claim that 'this town' has special rules, and tell us who may not decide the halacha about these things. But their signatures do not feature on a single psak halacha regarding this.
I ask again, what is the halacha about this issue?
It is difficult if not impossible at this time to issue a clear Halachok ruling that would address each and every behavior affected by Covid-19. The situation is so fluid, the science so unclear so that any ruling that would be appropriate to conditions prevailing today might be completely irrelevant or inapplicable tomorrow. The best that we can hope for is a broad proclamation by our Gedolim and Poskim of the values that should dictate our behavior in any circumstance. It is up to each individual to use, in consultation with their spiritual advisor, their own best judgement. It may be that your next door neighbor has come to a conclusion diametrically opposed to the one you reached, but this should not affect the way one Jew is supposed to behave toward another. Mutav she'yapil odom adzmoh betoich kivshan ho'aish, v'all yevayaish ess chaveiroh. It is better that one cast himself into a flaming furnace rather than cause consternation to a fellow Jew. It is our personal obligation to do our best to behave according to the dictates of the Torah. It is up to Hashem Yismoruch to either protect us or not, in accordance with His Devine Will. Iyoiv said ," lu yiktelaini, lo a'yacheil.". Although He might slay me, still I will place my hope in Him.
DeleteHallacha dictates that we take in consideration the advice of medical experts. all Rabbis have done that. They have taken into careful consideration what the scientific establishment has pronounced. However, they have not ceded their authority to the secular ruling powers to become the arbiters over our morality, because the judgement of the government is based on a system of priorities utterly incompatible with the Torah. The message delivered by the government is purely political cloaked (or "masked") by a thin veneer of scientific jargon. It is imperative that one wear a mask in any public assembly, unless one in engaged in violent protest over perceived societal inequities. Attendance at religious ceremonies must be strictly regulated, but gatherings in celebration of behaviors that the Torah considers repugnant are to be indiscriminately encouraged. In this environment it should come as no surprise that the ruling of our Rabbis are deliberately vague.
Further, it is the mainstream media whose agenda is overtly hostile to decency who determine which "scientific" viewpoints are promoted. The standard by which a person is considered a medical "expert" by the media is not necessarily one whoch would be Hallachically applicable. At what point is one considered a "roifeh" a doctor? Is it when one registers for pre-med courses? When one enters medical school? When one graduates? When one interns in a hospital? Establishes residency? When one becomes licensed by the State? Is anyone who dons a white coat automatically an authority?
When secular society is so clearly in disarray, no Rabbi can provide more than broad guidelines. To do otherwise would be inconsistent with the dictate that Chochimin be careful with their verbiage.
May Hashem have mercy on us all.
This is a public issue, it isn't and shouldn't be in the hands of each individual. What you do affects others more than yourself, you can't just decide on your own. The smartphone in someone's pocket is more his private business, yet we are inundated with 'clear' psakim what to do. And here? Nothing!
DeleteI don't know what the 'mainstream media' means, and how they come in over here. Did they issue a Psak? Who are they? How does a media become mainstream? ANd who cares?
Their Psak is very clear:
ReplyDeleteDo not shut down yeshivos and chadorim
The principle of bitulo zehu kiyumo when appropriately applied mandates us to "lower standards" for a period of time so that we can achieve kiyumo at a later time. This has universally guided "previous generations"- rishonim. It is well known the Chofetz Chaim followed medical advice and did not look in a sefer for a year so he could ultimately return to his regular limudim. There is no blanket rule not to "lower standards". Each situation must be evaluated by poskim gedolei Torah. We pray for their syata dshmaya
ReplyDeleteYou are misunderstanding the Psak. The point is that safeguarding and protective measures are meant to safeguard the primary goal, but deviating from the primary goal, even if safer, is not a legitimate safeguarding, and is actually counterproductive to the goal. The requirement of safeguarding is to remain focused on the goal while simultaneously protecting and safeguarding. Certainly, there are situations which may warrant a temporary abandonment of the goal, in order to enable long term fulfillment of the goal, and that is what is meant by bitulo zehu kiyumo, but that is not the subject of discussion. The discussion here is about safety measures, and shutting Torah is not one of them.
DeleteYou are misunderstanding the Psak. The point is that safeguarding and protective measures are meant to safeguard the primary goal, but deviating from the primary goal, even if safer, is not a legitimate safeguarding, and is actually counterproductive to the goal. The requirement of safeguarding is to remain focused on the goal while simultaneously protecting and safeguarding. Certainly, there are situations which may warrant a temporary abandonment of the goal, in order to enable long term fulfillment of the goal, and that is what is meant by bitulo zehu kiyumo, but that is not the subject of discussion. The discussion here is about safety measures, and shutting Torah is not one of them.
ReplyDeleteSo when hatzala or anyone is mechalel shabbes for hatzalas nefashos are they still within the guidelines?
ReplyDeleteThis is not a Halacha shaila.
ReplyDeleteYou are the one misunderstanding. The GOAL is v'chai bohem vlo sheyomus bohem. We have a tzivui to safegaurd our lives so that we can fulfill mitzvos. It is this goal that, at times requires us to change in the present so that we will have a future of Torah and mitzvos. Mutav sheyichalel shabbos achas so that one will have many shabbosos.
DeleteHuh? Not a halacha shaila? So what is it? Hashkafa? כל השקפה לרעה
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