Recently more and more weddings are taking place during the 2nd half of sefira it was not so long ago ago that weddings did not take place between Lag Baomer and Shavuos. It was always more common to make weddings from after Pesach up to Rosh Chodesh Iyar. The trend has changed and currently wedding halls have been busy during the second half of sefira after lag Baomer. The main factor is the lack of availability to book a hall and set a wedding date during the busy chasuna season after shavuos. A long engagement is standard by chasidim but not in the yeshiva circles. (Chasidim have an option to plan a wedding and book a hall a 9 months to (or a year) in advance). A 4 months engagement is now common for a chosson kallah that get engaged in February/March (after The freezer opens) and are first getting married after shavuos.
Years ago in Baltimore there was a lack of Chasuma halls and it was hard to find a wedding date. Rav Moshe Heineman shlita ruled that you can make weddings during sefira after Lag baomer, something that was not done prior to that. Some Roshei yeshiva will not be mesader kiddushin though, during sefira.
Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igros 159) He explains that the prohibition of getting married during Sefira belongs only to the chosson and kallah and when they are permitted to marry, others are permitted to
attend. Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt”l would go to weddings after Lag B’Omer, even though he was still keeping Sefira, yet he avoided from being mesader kiddushin. The Minchas Yitzchok held one may not attend a wedding during their Sefira, even if the chosson and kallah are not keeping Sefira (OU)
Times have changed same with listening to music lag bomer at night in Lakewood is now acceptable
ReplyDeleteTimes have changed....a way of life invented by the maskilim... now gone mainstream.... SAD!
DeleteWe are choshes lehirhur chosson. This is not negeya to chassidim at all. Vdal.
ReplyDeleteHahahaha!
Deletehttps://www.kikar.co.il/318401.html
ReplyDeleteתלמיד ישיבת 'בית מדרש עליון', שנחשב היה מטובי הלומדים, קבע תאריך לחתונתו בין ל"ג בעומר לשבועות - בניגוד לנהוג בישיבה, ובעקבות כך הושעה מהישיבה. אמש הוא התחתן (חרדים, ארץ)
שאול כהנא | כ"ג באייר תשע"ט 28.05.19 13:31
הבחור י', תושב אלעד, תלמיד ישיבת 'בית מדרש עליון', נחשב היה מטובי הלומדים בישיבה, אלא שתאריך חתונתו אמש (שני) הביא לסילוקו מהישיבה.
בישיבת 'בית מדרש עליון' לא נהוג להינשא בין ל"ג בעומר לחג השבועות, אך החתן קבע את יום חתונתו לתאריך כ"ב באייר. לאחר חג הפסח, כאשר נודע לראשי הישיבה תאריך החתונה, הם השעו את החתן מהישיבה.
מי שכובד בסידור חופה וקידושין היה הגאון רבי נפתלי קופשיץ, בניגוד לנהוג שראש הישיבה הגאון רבי ירחמיאל אונגרישר, מסדר חופה וקידושין.
חבריו של החתן השתתפו בשמחה "בין הסדרים" בשעות הערב המאוחרות.
My Friends Rosh refused to be mesader kiddushin last week for a talmid he said men macht nit a chasuna in mitten sefira
ReplyDeleteIf you tell me that a accepted ROV/Posek did not do a Siddur Kedushin during Sefira it would mean something from a Halachic view. But a Rosh HaYeshiva has other Cheshbonos besides Halacha, thus, it just means that in his Yeshivah its not acceptable but thus not reflect the general Halacha.
ReplyDeleteWhy the need for four months. My child getting married soon - 3 months engagement. Just pefect
ReplyDeleteThe Ta'z says clearly that the minhag is not to make weddings during the entire Sefirah, with the exception of Lag BaOmer. He says that even if you hold the "first half" you can take haircuts after Lag BaOmer, but the minhag is still not to make weddings because of the Crusades. I don't know why this is not well known, but it is clear that the minhag indeed always was not to have weddings at all after Lag BaOmer, according to all minhagim.
ReplyDeleteR’ Aharon refused to go to Chasunahs during this period. R’ Aharon was maikel between Pesach and Rosh Chodesh, but after Lag he held was assur. R’ Aharon held that the second minhag of Sefirah is the ikkar. (This was told to me by a Choshuvah Talmid of R’ Aharon Shlit”a and I verified it by phone before posting.)
ReplyDeleteALL THIS IS QUITE RIGHT.
DeleteTHE YEKKE'S אומרים זולות בברכת אמת ויציב שנתיסדו לומר על הCRUSADE'S. שנתחברו ע"י הראב"ן והראבי"ה ורבינו משולם ועוד גדולי ראשונים וגאונים (אין זה טעות) ע"ש
וזה היה המנהג הישן בכל מקומות הגולה שלשון אשכנז מגיע שם עד שנתבטלו אמירת הפיוטים ע"י הרפורם (כן היה תחלת ביטולו, ואכמ"ל ללמד טועים בינה). שבת שלפני שבועות הוא השבת שבו אומרים אב הרחמים אפילו אם הוא ערב שבועות או ר"ח סיון. ומה שאומרים אותו בכל שבת הוא רק לנוסח פולין שחידשו כן לאומרו בכל
שבת אחר גזירות ת"ח ות"ט - ואכמ"ל
אחד מזקניי רבי משה בן ליווא הי"ד נהרג בפפד"מ בשבועות שנת ק"ט בסוף גזירות )may 24 1349)
גזירות אשכנז הוא הטעם שאין רוקדים ומחנגים ושאין שומעים למיוסי"ק וכל זה המנהג נהגו ברוב המקומות רק בחלק שני של הספירה כי אז היו הגזירות ברוב עיירות וגם אין מברכין שהחיינו והמנהג הישן היה שלא לחתוך ציפורנים וכל
Deleteזה רק מא' אייר עד ערב שבועות גם נהגו לומר מזמור למנצח בנגינות אחר ספירת העומר מה"ט עי' בס' חורב להש"ר הירש זצ"ל והוא פשוט, ומה"ט הספרדים אין להם כל המנהגים האלו
It is so sad that people nowadays are "mazikil" on everything, for convenience sake. So what if you can find a "heter". If there are many who hold that it is forbidden why cannot people wait just a few weeks to get married after Shavuos? This is the attitude of this generation. If you can find a Rabbi to approve anything than anything goes without regard to sensitivity.
ReplyDeleteJust last Tishaa B"Av a concert by Heimishe groups was held in the afternoon via Zoom. I met one of the singers afterwards and asked him how he could do such a thing. He replied that he sang without music and that he only sang sad songs. He further told me that Rabbi Hillel David, recently appointed to the Moetzes Gedolei Torah sanctioned the event. Now, who am I to argue with a Godol Hador.
If you want to know if I tried to get in touch with Rabbi David, the answer is no. I feared that I might talk disrespectfully to the Rabbi and I believe that one must respect a Talmid Chochom, even if he is wrong. Besides, it may very well be that one can find a "heter", I would look like a fool challenging an expert in Hallacha. And to what end? The question isn't if one may sing on Tisiha B'av; the question is how CAN anyone sing on Tisha B'Av, sad song or otherwise.
I guess next Tisha B'Av people will be listening to recordings of Shlomo Carlbach singing Kum Baya, after all it's a sad song, no? And maybe watch a Holocaust movie like Schindler's List. Why not? It's a sad movie.
Hashem Yishmeraynu.
Love the attitude that Rav David is (probably wrong).
DeleteDid it ever occurred to you that maybe your wrong? Especially if you’ll eventually find out some more details that you are aware of now?
It is sad that there are people who deal with issues as a "gotchya" moment. How did you read in my words that "Rav David is (probably wrong)". Ii is quite clear from my words that even in the rare event that a Talmid Chochim is wrong one must respect him. I clearly stated that I would be a fool to challenge an expert in Hallacha. Does that sound that I feel that Rav David is "probably wrong"?
DeleteI should not be surprised to find people who are illiterate. Most people are. After all, aren't most Americans Democrats?
You have not addressed the fact that people are making light of a thousand year old minhag of sefira in a way they would have not done 50 years ago. True they may have a "heter", but that is not the same as a mandate. According to some you MAY make a wedding during the second half of sefira: no one says you MUST make a wedding at that time. Unless the is a compelling reason to do so why would a "yray shomayim" not be "machmir" out of respect for those who forbid it and in view of the fact that this was not done in the past? My wife's cousin made a wedding during the second half of sefira, in violation of our established minhag. When I enquired as to why, all I received in response was a confused look. Sad.
The instructions in the siddur suggest that on this Shabbos one recites "Av Harachamim" in spite of it being Shabbos Mevorchim Rosh Chodesh Sivan. The Aveilus of Sefira supersedes the joy of the coming Rosh Chodesh. Isn't it incongruous to celebrate an aufruf just moments before we lament those who died al Kiddush Hashem?
It is likewise lamentable that many people do not go to shul on Tisha B'av to say Kinos the way they used to 50 years ago. Instead, they Zoom in to concerts and listen to "sad" songs, because they have a "heter".
To be clear: I am NOT suggesting that the ruling of the Rabbis who permit this is WRONG. I am expressing my disappointment that there are those who avail themselves of the "heter".
your mostly right but the instructions in your siddur are inaccurate. the minhug should be to say av harachamim the shabbos before shivoous even if it's shabbos mevorchim. actually it's said on this shabbos even if it's erev shivoous as it'll be next year, but it's usually not said on shabbos mevorchim sivon i.e. this year. [could be minhug poland in this changed after ת"ח ות"ט and i'm not up to date on that, but i doubt it]
Deletei'm sorry for saying the multitude don't know this, but that's how it is due to the minhugim going lost in eastern europe and the USA [of course currant day Israel never did have minhugim in the first place, and only an ignorant fool will use tikochinsky's 'luach eretz yisroel' for anything other than the date]. there are reliable authentic sifray minhugim from kehillos that kept their minhugim from time immortal one just needs to seek them out
Can you suggest any reliable sefer of minhagim that is available for purchase?
DeleteA bit of history which unfortunately is not taught in yeshivot
DeleteAv Harachaman was instituted in memory of kedoshim of AShpira and Vermayza (Spires and Worms) cities in NW German.whom the crusaders murdered.
As the kinna on 9Av says, this occured during this time of year, so though we avoid Av Harachaman on Shabbat Mevorchim, an exception is made during sfirah, since this is the time of year when they were murdered.
Their pinkhas hakahal (essentially minhag bichs) are available online for free.
If we can find a heter, whats wrong with that. Getting married is a mitzva doraysa, pru Urvu, simchas chosson vkalla, giving parnassa to halls and caterers etc There werent 10 engagements a day in R Aahrons times, halls are booked up months in advance, if you frumaks dont want to go in sefira to a wedding then stay home.
ReplyDeleteRav Dovid Feinstein held The View the first days for Aveilus were mistaken
ReplyDeletethe second days of
Sefira were the correct ones .
he didn't broadcast that but if you asked him that's what he would say
Why is everyone blaming the Chson? As if he controls when to get married. It’s the Kallahs side who pays the bulk of the bill and as the saying goes “ vehr es hut deh mayya hut deh days”. Which all Rosh hayeshivahs pretty much adhere to ( unless they’ll make more mayyas by turning down the first dayya)
DeleteI asked R' Dovid Feinstein Zatzal about this and he was adamant that you are not allowed to make weddings second half of Sefira.
DeleteHard to imagine that R' Dovid ZL held the first days were "mistaken", in light of the fact that his father held explicitly otherwise. R' Moshe ZL held - and wrote - that the minhag is to keep 33 days of aveilus, and anyone can decide whichever they want, and switch back and forth from year to year without being matir neder.
DeleteHe stated that outright. Sorry, take it or leave it
DeleteWhy would anyone "take it," against R Moshe?
DeleteLook in Tur 493 if someone makes a chasuna in sefira we don't knas him . We don't advise him to make chasuna then . I think friends or R"Y not going to chasuna is a knas and assume screaming at a person is also a knas , so we don't scream at him . But maybe someone argues on Tur , kindly advise ...
ReplyDeleteAlthough I personally would not make a Chasuna during the second days of Segura besides for Lag Bomer and Shloshes Yemei Hagbala, if one asked his/her Rav and was told it is OK, why the hate? It seems like the lesson of Segura did not penetrate for some.
ReplyDeleteAnd if he would ask his rav and was told NOT to do it, would you expect his rav to come to the wedding???? Has nothing to do with hate! There’s no reason they should keep him in yeshiva if he goes against the ruling of the Rosh Hayeshiva. .
DeleteBecause braking minhsgim is breaking all yisroel.
ReplyDeleteAh but dancing around a fire on lag baomer that is not our minhag, that’s ok to do in all the chadarim. Go figure
ReplyDelete