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Monday, February 15, 2021
קול קורא Purim Recommendations from ועד לעניני קורונה
So this is from all four Roshei Yeshiva, all Four poskim, Rav Mendel Slomowitz, Rav Shlomo Feivel Schustal, Rav Avremel Bromberg and Rav Uren Reich (The senior ROshei Yeshiva with Yeshivas in Lakewood) and the Vaad of Corona. Who else would you want ot be included in a Kol Korei for it to be meaningful for you? Please update the headline to reflect that.
Signatures mean nothing unless those who sign practice what they preach. During the porch minyan fiasco the signees ignored what they signed. Dont excpect the sheep to follow blindly this time.
instead of answering your claims, i will say suppose even your claims are correct, doesn't it say in the Torah that someone who is Muchzak to be an Ehriche Yid and Kal vechomer a tremdous talmid chacham, one is OBLIGATED to be be dan lekaf zchus, how can someone be mezalzel in talmidei chachamim so easily
We're sick and tired of hearing proclamations from "tremendous talmidei chachomim" who are coerced into signing things by the "askonim" who threaten to abuse their power such as threatening not to allow hatzola to respond if their demands are not complied....
This is boring. You want to find out if that happened, call any of these Rabbanim and ask them. They will either confirm or deny that they mean what this says. If one of them says they don't mean it, come back here and tell us who it was, and what their name is. Otherwise stop being Mevazeh Talmidei Chachomim.
Amazing how everyone resorts to name calling, and hiding behind the tora without addressing the facts. The fact is that many of the Rabbanim that signed against minyanim davened with minyanim. Until you address that hypocrisy, these letters are meaningless.
WARNING!!!!! BLOOGER 9:36 AM YOU ARE TREADING ON TREACHEROUS WATER!! Rav Elyashiv Zt"l famously remarked that the reason why we have a Machla that has no cure is because of זילזול ת"ח, He qouted the Gemora in Shabbos (127) כל המזלזל בתלמיד חכם אין לו רפואה למכתו. (I would assume that the same applies for the Mageifa wer'e going through now). IT IS BEYOND ME WHY FOR SOME INSANE DESIRE TO BLOG AND LET THIS OFF YOUR HEART YOU ARE WILLING TO BE MEKABEL SUCH A KLALA FROM CHAZAL HAKEDOSHIM. MAYBE IT IS BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT WEV'E BEEN SO LONG IN THIS SITUATIAN, AND BEING HELD BACH FROM THE BRACHA RAV UREN SHLIT'A MENTIONED.
The english and hebrew do not match up. The english says "going from home to home.... should be **avoided**" The Hebrew says "Lma'et Bsivuv Pishchei Batim". Lma'et does not mean to avoid, but to do less.
And herein lies the problem. Why can they speak clear and straight. Either say "its ok to collect door to door", or say "we don't allow it". Lma'et door to door has no clear definition, what and how much is considered a mi'ut? And L'heemona m'seudos Gedolos. Whats called a big seuda? 10? 20? 50? 100? Again, without clear definitive recommendations and guidelines, this is totally meaningless and worthless and this will just make a mockery of them as no one will listen because nothing here is clear
The people who are looking to undermine this seem to be the only people in Lakewood who are unable to use their Sechel. Everyone else can figure out what to do with broad guidelines.
Nobody has to go to dance by a chadunah if they don't want to. I go say Mazel tov if its a relative and leave . But if dozens of groups show up at my house, it puts me in a not nice position to ask them to stay outside and not dance and give them a check through the door. So there is a big difference.
Have no idea what your hocking about, nobody has to open their doors to purim groups, and any group with the slightest bit of decency will understand if you are hesitant to allow them in. Last year I had several meshulachim coming into my home and when they indicated that they would prefer not to shake/hold hands, it was mutually understood, in goodwill and respect
Anyone can walk into a hospital and see for themselves. BH our community has lower numbers than the rest of the county, but that's not a reason to do something irresponsible. This letter has a cross section of Rabbonim who have every sort of approach to how the public should be responding to COVID and that makes me confident we should do what they say.
Besides that they are all Gedolei Olam, and the idea that anonymous internet commenters should be in the same conversation is a Bizayon.
Alot what the Rabbonim are saying should not be taking place on a regular year to .the Rabbonim are simply saying try to tone it down this year to what a normal Purim should look like
The fact is there are still people getting sick, people dying, miscarriages etc. You have be under a rock to realize that we are not back to normal. Use you saichel- be careful. Nowhere in the megillah does it say you have to collect, that you need a putin mesibah. You can do everything at home. Do you want to be the one who causes shuls and schools to close? The rabbinim who signed the letter did so wisely- not that they need by haskama. As an official policy, these parties are off limits. Spend time this year on purim with your wife, parents and kids. Enjoy their presence. No need to run away from them.
There is absolutely no reason to make these parties off limits. Every day there are chasunos, bar mitzvos, brissim, packed kideishim shabbos morning etc etc and yet there is no public crisis whatsoever. This is pure fear mongering and attempting to control the tzibbur and we will not have it
With all due respect. Why did you care? If you think it's is fear mongering, then just ignore the letter on a personal level. Why do you have to be the nachshan to argue with yeh gedolim and doctors?? If you cared for others you would open up your pockets and hearts for those that were effected (or maybe you did). Are you patronizing the frum stores who were effected?? Helping with suppers for the families whose mother's are in the hospital or are an emotional wreck after losing their baby during this virus? Are you saying tehilim every day and crying out your heart that this "fair mongering" stop... Not to accuse you but I highly doubt it.
Indeed. I intend on keeping my doors open like every year. I'm just bothered by the apparent hypocrisy. This past Shabbos there was a double simcha in my shul, many guests and many elderly grandparents and relatives attended, it was packed to say the least. I'm sure this goes on every shabbos in many shuls, and many nights in many simcha halls. I haven't seen any Kol Koreis about any of this. Why?
Because there is no crisis in Lakewood. Yes, here and there there are some serious cases, but miuta d'miuta. Not a "pandemic" or anything close to it.
So why a kol Korei now? Why are they letting it out on Bochrim who spent the last four months shteiging and need their outlet?
Yes, you definitely "care" about the Bochurim who "need their outlet" more than the Roshei Yeshiva who spend day in and day out raising them. You're just a grubbeh baal taaveh who doesn't like to listen.
Essentially, you're Korach. He also had a good Cheshbon for not listening to Moshe:
Basically they are saying stick to your own neighborhood your own synagogue your own circle of friends try not to have different groups in different areas mingle with each other
Fact people went to Florida over the summer and sukkos and brought the virus back infecting and spreading it around not a word from the corona vaad. Midwinter vacation again thousands traveled to Orlando, Miami not a word from anyone about it but Purim is different please explain why?
Actually the Roshei Yeshiva only formed the Corona Vaad around Rosh Hashana time so the summer is not a Tayna and they actually did put out letters about it on Sukkos and Chanukah so stop lying.
Out of towners are making chasunas in lkwd halls are booked up through the summer, kids from canada that are stuck are learning in the schools no worries
Many gedolim see this as one of the reasons for the חרון אף that we find ourselves in now. Among other השחתה that is done בריש גלי in our מחנה fun unzere ר"ל
Group of 5 drunk bochurim with coordinating farmer costumes suddenly burst into creating a whatapp group and add a gvir to the group. There are 2 other groups that just added the same gvir so they wait their turn while sitting in their classroom munching on franks in blanks and mini egg rolls.
Finally it's their turn. They start a whatapp video call, a portable speaker is whipped out playing Mi Shenichnas Adar and remote dancing ensues. An emotional plea discussing the lack of covid supplies in yeshiva and the tasteless meals and a charidy.com link is send off to the gvir while the drunkest of the group keeps the chatter going.
As the bochurim exit the chat they peek wistfully as their charidy page and break out in cautious smiles as they refresh the screen and create a new whatapp group with the next gvir.
So this is from all four Roshei Yeshiva, all Four poskim, Rav Mendel Slomowitz, Rav Shlomo Feivel Schustal, Rav Avremel Bromberg and Rav Uren Reich (The senior ROshei Yeshiva with Yeshivas in Lakewood) and the Vaad of Corona. Who else would you want ot be included in a Kol Korei for it to be meaningful for you? Please update the headline to reflect that.
ReplyDeleteThis should be in place even without Corona.
ReplyDeleteWhy kill precious Torah time on a holy day like Purim???
Signatures mean nothing unless those who sign practice what they preach. During the porch minyan fiasco the signees ignored what they signed. Dont excpect the sheep to follow blindly this time.
ReplyDeleteYou're a weirdo who only has one thing to say. "baaaaaa, porch minyanim, baaaaaaa, porch Minyanim."
Deleteinstead of answering your claims, i will say suppose even your claims are correct, doesn't it say in the Torah that someone who is Muchzak to be an Ehriche Yid and Kal vechomer a tremdous talmid chacham, one is OBLIGATED to be be dan lekaf zchus, how can someone be mezalzel in talmidei chachamim so easily
DeleteCareful, son. You’re talking about tremendous Talmidei Chachomim here. Some respect, please.
Delete10:09
DeleteWe're sick and tired of hearing proclamations from "tremendous talmidei chachomim" who are coerced into signing things by the "askonim" who threaten to abuse their power such as threatening not to allow hatzola to respond if their demands are not complied....
This is boring. You want to find out if that happened, call any of these Rabbanim and ask them. They will either confirm or deny that they mean what this says. If one of them says they don't mean it, come back here and tell us who it was, and what their name is. Otherwise stop being Mevazeh Talmidei Chachomim.
DeleteAmazing how everyone resorts to name calling, and hiding behind the tora without addressing the facts. The fact is that many of the Rabbanim that signed against minyanim davened with minyanim. Until you address that hypocrisy, these letters are meaningless.
DeleteWARNING!!!!! BLOOGER 9:36 AM YOU ARE TREADING ON TREACHEROUS WATER!! Rav Elyashiv Zt"l famously remarked that the reason why we have a Machla that has no cure is because of זילזול ת"ח, He qouted the Gemora in Shabbos (127) כל המזלזל בתלמיד חכם אין לו רפואה למכתו. (I would assume that the same applies for the Mageifa wer'e going through now). IT IS BEYOND ME WHY FOR SOME INSANE DESIRE TO BLOG AND LET THIS OFF YOUR HEART YOU ARE WILLING TO BE MEKABEL SUCH A KLALA FROM CHAZAL HAKEDOSHIM. MAYBE IT IS BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT WEV'E BEEN SO LONG IN THIS SITUATIAN, AND BEING HELD BACH FROM THE BRACHA RAV UREN SHLIT'A MENTIONED.
DeleteYOU SHOULD DO WHAT 9:53 AM DID (DELEATE YOUR COMMENT)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe english and hebrew do not match up. The english says "going from home to home.... should be **avoided**" The Hebrew says "Lma'et Bsivuv Pishchei Batim". Lma'et does not mean to avoid, but to do less.
ReplyDeleteAnd herein lies the problem. Why can they speak clear and straight. Either say "its ok to collect door to door", or say "we don't allow it". Lma'et door to door has no clear definition, what and how much is considered a mi'ut? And L'heemona m'seudos Gedolos. Whats called a big seuda? 10? 20? 50? 100? Again, without clear definitive recommendations and guidelines, this is totally meaningless and worthless and this will just make a mockery of them as no one will listen because nothing here is clear
The people who are looking to undermine this seem to be the only people in Lakewood who are unable to use their Sechel. Everyone else can figure out what to do with broad guidelines.
DeleteSomeone doesn't know what "free translation" means.
Delete11:26
DeleteI sure do know, what free translation does not mean. It does not mean you can twist the words of a Gadol into something he did not mean and say.
Nothing in the translation is not reflective of the Hebrew.
DeleteHundreds dancing at weddings every night...........No problem
ReplyDeleteBochrim collecting door to door........Major problem
I beg you, please, someone, explain
Nobody said "no problem." Nobody thinks weddings are a good idea.
DeleteNobody has to go to dance by a chadunah if they don't want to. I go say Mazel tov if its a relative and leave . But if dozens of groups show up at my house, it puts me in a not nice position to ask them to stay outside and not dance and give them a check through the door. So there is a big difference.
Delete2:44
DeleteHave no idea what your hocking about, nobody has to open their doors to purim groups, and any group with the slightest bit of decency will understand if you are hesitant to allow them in. Last year I had several meshulachim coming into my home and when they indicated that they would prefer not to shake/hold hands, it was mutually understood, in goodwill and respect
The hospitals are full. They can't be inundated with shikkur bochurim. Have rachmonus!
ReplyDeleteThis is a very good point. please keep this in mind!
DeletePlease have a clue before you talk. Hospitals are not full. In fact, the numbers are very small and manageable. This whole thing is a lie.
DeleteThen how come the kol korei doesn't mention anything about drinking
DeleteAnyone can walk into a hospital and see for themselves. BH our community has lower numbers than the rest of the county, but that's not a reason to do something irresponsible. This letter has a cross section of Rabbonim who have every sort of approach to how the public should be responding to COVID and that makes me confident we should do what they say.
DeleteBesides that they are all Gedolei Olam, and the idea that anonymous internet commenters should be in the same conversation is a Bizayon.
Alot what the Rabbonim are saying should not be taking place on a regular year to
ReplyDelete.the Rabbonim are simply saying try to tone it down this year to what a normal Purim should look like
The fact is there are still people getting sick, people dying, miscarriages etc. You have be under a rock to realize that we are not back to normal.
ReplyDeleteUse you saichel- be careful. Nowhere in the megillah does it say you have to collect, that you need a putin mesibah. You can do everything at home. Do you want to be the one who causes shuls and schools to close?
The rabbinim who signed the letter did so wisely- not that they need by haskama. As an official policy, these parties are off limits.
Spend time this year on purim with your wife, parents and kids. Enjoy their presence. No need to run away from them.
There is absolutely no reason to make these parties off limits. Every day there are chasunos, bar mitzvos, brissim, packed kideishim shabbos morning etc etc and yet there is no public crisis whatsoever. This is pure fear mongering and attempting to control the tzibbur and we will not have it
DeleteWith all due respect. Why did you care? If you think it's is fear mongering, then just ignore the letter on a personal level. Why do you have to be the nachshan to argue with yeh gedolim and doctors??
DeleteIf you cared for others you would open up your pockets and hearts for those that were effected (or maybe you did). Are you patronizing the frum stores who were effected?? Helping with suppers for the families whose mother's are in the hospital or are an emotional wreck after losing their baby during this virus?
Are you saying tehilim every day and crying out your heart that this "fair mongering" stop... Not to accuse you but I highly doubt it.
3:55
DeleteIndeed. I intend on keeping my doors open like every year. I'm just bothered by the apparent hypocrisy. This past Shabbos there was a double simcha in my shul, many guests and many elderly grandparents and relatives attended, it was packed to say the least. I'm sure this goes on every shabbos in many shuls, and many nights in many simcha halls. I haven't seen any Kol Koreis about any of this.
Why?
Because there is no crisis in Lakewood. Yes, here and there there are some serious cases, but miuta d'miuta. Not a "pandemic" or anything close to it.
So why a kol Korei now? Why are they letting it out on Bochrim who spent the last four months shteiging and need their outlet?
Yes, you definitely "care" about the Bochurim who "need their outlet" more than the Roshei Yeshiva who spend day in and day out raising them. You're just a grubbeh baal taaveh who doesn't like to listen.
DeleteEssentially, you're Korach. He also had a good Cheshbon for not listening to Moshe:
4:35 Do you call your wife Zeresh every time she disagrees with you? Grow up kiddo
Delete7:47 AM. You are what we call a sophisticated Baal Habas. Sho wthat the other guy is stuck behind in times... Yes you are Korach.
DeleteThe schools are in their own bubble and now they are going to the masses.. That is the problem.
ReplyDeleteK bochurim don’t drink.
ReplyDelete1:31
DeleteI have hundreds of bochrim in my home every year. Many dont drink. Many do
Basically they are saying stick to your own neighborhood your own synagogue your own circle of friends try not to have different groups in different areas mingle with each other
ReplyDeleteTry not to travel to different cities let Lakewood stay in Lakewood Monsey in Monsey and Brooklyn in Brooklyn
ReplyDeleteFact people went to Florida over the summer and sukkos and brought the virus back infecting and spreading it around not a word from the corona vaad. Midwinter vacation again thousands traveled to Orlando, Miami not a word from anyone about it but Purim is different please explain why?
ReplyDeleteThis is laughable
DeleteActually the Roshei Yeshiva only formed the Corona Vaad around Rosh Hashana time so the summer is not a Tayna and they actually did put out letters about it on Sukkos and Chanukah so stop lying.
DeleteOut of towners are making chasunas in lkwd halls are booked up through the summer, kids from canada that are stuck are learning in the schools no worries
ReplyDeleteWhat about the fact that in WG they don’t let you build a shul?
ReplyDeleteMany gedolim see this as one of the reasons for the חרון אף that we find ourselves in now. Among other השחתה that is done בריש גלי in our מחנה fun unzere ר"ל
DeleteName one
ReplyDeleteMany gedolim? You mean to say you and some other farbissen people do. Ok that’s fine.
ReplyDeleteScene on Purim 2021.
ReplyDeleteGroup of 5 drunk bochurim with coordinating farmer costumes suddenly burst into creating a whatapp group and add a gvir to the group. There are 2 other groups that just added the same gvir so they wait their turn while sitting in their classroom munching on franks in blanks and mini egg rolls.
Finally it's their turn. They start a whatapp video call, a portable speaker is whipped out playing Mi Shenichnas Adar and remote dancing ensues. An emotional plea discussing the lack of covid supplies in yeshiva and the tasteless meals and a charidy.com link is send off to the gvir while the drunkest of the group keeps the chatter going.
As the bochurim exit the chat they peek wistfully as their charidy page and break out in cautious smiles as they refresh the screen and create a new whatapp group with the next gvir.
I doubt too many are going to listen to this anyway
ReplyDelete