There is an election coming up this Tuesday November 2, as usual the community is told who to vote for without much explanation, Local media have articles about the civic duty to vote and the importance of having a unified bloc vote for the unique needs of the community which is beneficial to all.
Besides for the governor candidates who actually came to campaign in Lakewood (one more than the other) The local incumbents for township committee and others candidates have been silent. They have not engaged or spoken to the local residents whose votes they seek. People have legitimate concerns about quality of life sitting in daily traffic frustrated for hours, high property taxes, affordable housing, zoning, Bussing, dangerous roadways with accidents and injuries, safe play areas for children, safety for pedestrians on township roads, transparency in the local govt with spending tax dollars, the list goes on. The Vaad ignored most of the pressing issues and mentioned pot holes and snow removal they take the olam for granted.
On to the governor's race again people's concerns were not addressed. People rightfully have worries of what the future may bring from mandates to vaccinations to liberal agendas and public safety. Seniors could be affected with new nursing home rules, children could be priced out from daycares if they are not eligible. Don't they have a right to have these concerns addressed?
Lakewood voted for overwhelmingly for Trump, to ask everyone to change on the whim for a liberal democrat should be done with more than just a robocall or flyer on the windshield..
The tzibur is treated as if they are owned, and talked down to like children without explanations or alleviating concerns.
They tell us to vote under the cloak of "Achdus" and koach hatzibur, but that is only if the needs of the community are taken care of by true representatives that were appointed by the kehilla to advocate for them and speak on their behalf.
The community does not know who the vaad is and the vaad does not know the community. To issue an endorsement of candidates without engaging the Lakewood taxpayers is insulting.
However, the current system has allowed self proclaimed spokespersons and askanim to present themselves to politicians as representatives of the community and thereby using the koach hatzibbur.
The tzibbur no longer has trust in an establishment that does not reach out to everyone. A self appointed Vaad telling you who to vote for is insulting and belittling to the entire tzibbur. To hold closed door meetings without public input and no transparency, just further creates mistrust and bad feelings.
Please show some respect and don't take anything for granted.
A letter written by rav uren reich has been disseminated on certain news sites urging everyone to vote for gov murphy as hakaras hatov below is a letter written which hasnt been posted as said site doesn't allow comments on rosh yeshivas letters
ReplyDeletethe other site removed the post completly
below is my letter written but not posted anywhere i hope respectfully as my intent is to clarify and understand the rosh yeshiva not to disagree or argue
I’m not coming to argue with Harav reich shlita who is a known talmid chochom of the highest caliber I have the utmost respect for him. I Just have a few questions id like clarified
How would Rav Avigdor Miller ztl have advised if asked his opinion ? Would he support someone who is pro toeava , pro abortion, pro "death with dignity"-aka pulling the plug, pro teaching about alternate life styles in kindergarten?
He stands for everything the torah is against. Do we look away and ignore and cover up everything for a few dollars?
and if the answer is yes , I can see your support of him if our taxes were lowered and route 9 was widened to ease the traffic and the tax formula negatively affecting our town was changed.
Non of these very important issues effecting the town of Lakewood, under the current administration were addressed perhaps even ignored. For the few “mosdos” that received “benefits” does that obligate the rest of the town to ignore all the issues that affect our lives on a daily basis? (perhaps hourly if you count the hours sitting in traffic on route 9 trying to get home or back to Yeshiva) Whether it be TAXES "most of us pay" (as we arent roshe yeshiva) which is thru the roof and admittedly the highest in the nation or not redoing the tax formula, or busing issues each year come begging, having to jump thru hoops to get the money to cover the busing.
Lest we forget when our neighborhood essential stores hardware stores ,clothing stores closed down right before pesach by NJ state troopers (yes, Murphy’s state troopers were here in town to enforce the lockdown handing out fines for being open Center of town, brooklyn southwest and many others.
Or our shuls shuttered and closed. How can we forget funerals people attending levayas r”l were ticketed. This enforcement was all based on NJ state mandated laws enacted and enforced under gov Murphy
I humbly ask the rosh yeshiva to explain and clarify for the tzibur What exactly do we owe him hakaras hatov for ? ive spoken to many lkwd residents who feel the same way if the rosh yeshiva can please clarify to the public
A Lakewood NJ resident of 35 years
Couldn't have said it better myself. If you add up all the money paid by people in this town due to the bad funding formula, if you add up all the hours waiting in traffic and multiply those hours by minimum wage(the township committees fault, but that hasn't stopped the state fixing other towns messes before) then add all the loans the town was forced to take, and will need to take perpetually. It dwarfs the amount that was received from the state in Covid relief
DeleteThe expense
He answered the questions in his letter. You'd know if you read it.
DeleteRav Avignon Miller was basically a daas yachid. Most other gedolim argued.
DeleteThe Roshe Yeshiva and roshei mosdos that are backing Murphy are whom you send your children to. Trust them a drop.
And btw Ciattarelli is also pro abortion pro toeiva etc he’s no Romney
And bottom line Murphy’s winning its simply dumb for this town to not vote for him.
And if you think Ciattarelli is winning go online and bet on him you’ll make a lot more money than Murphy’s tax hikes. Lol
Someone I know opened a business as a non profit, when I asked him why he didn't do it as a regular LLC, he told me because a non profit can make more money.
DeleteThis idea that somehow people should be mental themselves to the opinions of Roshei Mosdos is rediculous.
Some Roshei Mosdos are great people, but even then, their interests do not necessarily align with the interests of the community as a whole.
Even if they attempt to give their unbiased opinion, they are not capable of it. Hashoshad Yaaver Einei Chachomim, it doesn't say Einei Tipshim, because even the wisest people can be blinded when decisions effect them financially (gemarah sites examples of this).
The elections and politicians impact the finances of mosdos and yeshiva, and that being the case, anyone who is being honest and runs a mossad should recuse themselves from giving advice on the election.
Frankly, look at the outcome of following the advice of the same people regarding local elections. Runaway taxes, hours sitting in traffic, at least 2 accidents daily, the record speaks for itself
Why is Reb Shenky's name not on the VAAD paper? And what's with the Shopper being so anti-VAAD endorsements?
ReplyDeleteWhere is R yeruchem in all this?
ReplyDeleteR' Yeruchem heeds the Chazal, "Siyug Lichachmah, Shtika."
DeleteThose who talk, don't know; those who know, don't talk.
Aside for Ray Coles, all the other Township Committee members have essentially gone onto hibernation the last 5 years. they destroyed the town, they know it, and they know we know it
ReplyDeleteML and MM can laugh all the way to the bank with campaign funds. They dont have to lift a finger or say a word and they get reelected by 10,000 votes.
DeleteIs there a way to see how much money they raised for their re-election campaign
DeleteIf you think MM and ML care about campaign funds you really don't know what has been going on. Campaign funds aren't even a drop in the bucket
DeleteFor some reason, a town that was founded by Reb Aaron Kotler, and led by him and his son Reb Shneur for many years, is being asked "what would Reb Avigdor Miller hold?"
ReplyDeleteWhy?
Why should we be beholden to one man's opinion? He was not our Rebbe, and most of Klal Yisroel ignored his opinions in his lifetime.
How did one man become the מרא דשמעתתא?
Especially when we know that Reb Aaron was extremely vociferous about his opinion that we need to produce results. When people attacked him for joining the coalition in Israel, whose members were far far to the left of Bernie Sanders, he made the answer quite clear. Our job is to support Yeshivos and Torah, and we do what we can for that.
Essentially, the comment of 'generation going down' is a comment against Reb Aaron Kotler, against the Gedolim of Eretz Yisroel and against most Gedolei Yisroel of the ages.
Um...
DeleteThis post is pure baloney about the haskafa of Rav Ahron Kotler. He was niftar fourteen years before Aguda joined the coalition with BEGIN who was by no stretch of imagination to the left of Bernie Sanders.
The Agudah was never part of any government coalition during the lifetime of Rav Ahron Kotler during the lifetime of Rav Ahron Kotler the Yeshivos did not get one penny from the Israeli government.
When the Agudah did join with Begin in 1977 money was far from the only consideration.
ETC.
Anon 7:25 - your historical information is wrong. The Agudah was a part of the coalition in the very first government of Israel, in 1949. The Kano'im wrote Kuntreisim and made trouble at the time, and Reb Aaron gave a speech at the Agudah convention explaining why they had to join the coalition. Rabbi YM Levin wrote a Kuntress to explain the facts on the ground and how the Kano'im are totally off base.
DeleteAnd the PM at the time was Ben Gurion, who makes Sanders look like a Belzer yoshev.
You should brush up on your history.
And money was the main consideration on both occasions, and even now it is not the only consideration.
In 1949 Agudas Yisroel did not exist as an independent political party. They were a part of a united party called חֲזִית דָּתִית מְאוּחֶדֶת which consisted of Agudas Yisrael, Po’alei Agudas Mizraci, and Hapo’el Hamizrahi.
DeleteThe haskafa differences in those parties caused it to quickly fall apart. As above money was not a factor at all in why the Aguda was part of the coalition. The Yeshivos weren't getting a penny off the Israeli government . It was only to strengthen Torah to limit leftist secularism that they joined
And in the end they left over haskafa. (Rabbi YM Levin resigned as minister of social welfare over Shearis L'eumi)
Anon 7:18 - you are trying to spin over here. The Aguda existed in 1949, and their Mo'etzes made a decision to join the government. It makes no difference how they reached that decision or how it was implemented. The Mo'etzes, including Reb Aaron Kotler, the Tchebiner Rav and others, had no problem joining up with people whose Hashakafa was far removed from theirs, like Ben Gurion etc.
DeleteThey did not leave over 'hashakafa'. They left in order to precipitate a government crisis so that שירות לאומי should not be implemented. They left for a practical purpose, not to make a statement. And שירות לאומי was not a 'values' issue. They did not care if Chilonim had שירות לאומי, even though the hashkafa is the same. They were in the government to ensure that Charedim can live and flourish in the State, and that was their only yardstick regarding joining the government. Can we help our community with this or not? There was NEVER an issue about the hashkafos of the Prime Minister, or his personal religious feelings or actions. Only to help ourselves.
At the time, there were azei panim and kanoim (I repeated myself, I know) who darshened against Reb Aaron Kotler and other Gedolei Hador. Their spiritual inheritors are today's keyboard warriors who fight 'to'ieva' by making empty gestures that have not changed things an iota.
As the Chazon Ish wrote in his letter to Reb Elchonon: The Edah Charedis cannot be considered fighters against Zionism, because they haven't prevented them at all. A Rov in a community, under the Rabbanut's flag, has fought them much more, by opening a Cheder, a Mikva and a Shul.
And it was money that was the issue. Money for חינוך עצמאי. The largest practical benefit we had from politics in those years was חינוך עצמאי, which produced the whole generation of middle-aged Bnei Torah in Eretz Yisroel. Kano'im, who don't have to produce results or say the truth, tried to fight חינוך עצמאי. Boruch Hashem we were saved from them, and we hope that continues today.
DeleteHuh?
DeleteHow could funding for חינוך עצמאי have been in a factor in Agudah being part of a party that was in the government coalition in 1949 when chinuch Atzmai itself itself did not exist until 1953?
The breakup of Agudah with the חֲזִית דָּתִית מְאוּחֶדֶת and the resignation of Rav Yitzchok
Meir Levin from his cabinet position was in 1952.
False and a fraud from beginning to end .
DeleteInteresting,from
someone who claims to know a thing or two
1)They said they're forced to join just by being ipso facto part of the state
& ONLY if Capable of keeping the state a semblance of jewishness
otherwise as was stated in the famous speech they will have to
walk out of the whole State which was to be Jewish by the world !
2)" the empty the pot the more noise it makes
CARE to guess the one who declared that it's worse that
if Chilonim had שירות לאומי than our daughters שירות לאומי and that's what we're to be fighting ?
So much for"They did not care if Chilonim had שירות לאומי, even though the hashkafa is the same"
!
3)Countless offers and bags of gelt
over next 24 years to rejoin the government and they turned them all down
Several years later when PAI succumbed to your version of values and exorbitant offers from the government in the name of helping our own
Deletethey were denounced ! And cut off from the main leadership,
4)Always retain when we were a small beleaguered Community barely tottering,
decisions made in that reality even the shred which have pertinence to what you are claiming has been little if any relevance to presently. And they would decided differently and we know from their great Gedolim
peers who outlived them they would decide differently
once
exponentially Our
Community had expanded with influence and numbers
To sum up :who indoctrinated and washed you up?
Cohen – I suspect that the reason you don’t write in coherent sentences is because you don’t read or listen in full sentences. You have some half information and historical slogans, with no knowledge or understanding of the background of the situation.
Delete1. When the Knesset was formed, the Charedim needed to join the government, because otherwise they would have no influence. However, they made another decision at the time that the Kanoim fought against, and that was to join the COALITION. They were members of the coalition, holding up a government of evil leftists like Ben-Gurion and Mapai. Why? How could they voluntarily join up with people whose hashkafos were diametrically opposed to Torah? The Cohens of that generation were livid, yet Reb Aaron did not care and justified it.
Rabbi Levin wrote a pamphlet explaining himself, which I have somewhere on my computer. His point was simple – we need to produce results. We can give nice speeches from the opposition, but we cannot support our Mosdos from there. There was no question of what statement they were making by joining, only practically allowing the Torah community to flourish.
2. The government’s officials spoke terrible things. And they were protested against. But they did not leave the government, they stayed with the Resha’im in the Knesset. They only left when leaving would bring them a better practical solution than staying. The only guiding light was PRACTICALITY.
3. Sherut Le’umi was a major problem at the time, and it was stopped for Charedim and only Charedim. Why? Why was it never an issue since then? Sherut Le’umi is still the law of the land, why did Rav Shach and Rav Shteinman not refuse to join a coalition with Sherut Le’umi? The answer is simple and clear. Our Gedolim sent representatives to the Knesset for one purpose only – to assist and facilitate the possibility of a viable Torah community in Eretz Yisroel. As long as it is possible to live as a frumme Yid, their job is done. They did not need the PM to be religious, they were never worried about the personal beliefs of the Chiloni leaders.
4. Nobody offered them money to join the government until Begin. The Charedim were unwanted until then.
5. Begin was personally responsible for the Shmad of thousands of Bnei Torah, with his Etzel gang of thugs. Yet they were willing to sit in his Knesset. Murphy is no worse than him.
6. Chinuch Atzma’I was a product of four years of negotiation and compromise, that started in the first Knesset. If they would not have joined the first Knesset, it wouldn’t have happened. It did not happen overnight in 1953. But the reason they joined that Knesset was to ensure money for Chinuch Atzma’i. In 1953, when Chinuch Atzma’I opened up, suddenly Satmar decided to worry about those who might go there (they never cared about those who went to Mamlachti or Mamlachti Dati beforehand, some more sheker of the Kano’im), so they opened their own competing brand. Of course, they collapsed within a few short years, and the children all went to public school.
History has shown us again and again – Kano’us is sheker. Kano’im lie like they breathe and they are a public nuisance. In Lakewood, Kiryas Joel, Brooklyn, Yerushalayim, Bnei Berak and Chadera, Kano’im are a danger to everything they touch.
I'm no big fan of the Kanoim but the Kesef Yaaneh Es Hakol is no better.
DeleteNot in building Torah and not in saying Emes.
this thread started with Reb Aaron was extremely vociferous about his opinion that we need to produce results. When people attacked him for joining the coalition in Israel, whose members were far far to the left of Bernie Sanders, he made the answer quite clear. Our job is to support Yeshivos and Torah, and we do what we can for that.
Now it boils to claims of a pamphlet that Rabbi Levin wrote.
I wasn't around when what is being debated is discusses but one thing I can say with certainty: Yahadus Hatorah did not join Yitzchok Rabins's government for haskafa reasons despite his offers of millions of dollars to the Yeshivas if they would.
Rav Shomo Zalman Aurbach who was no kanoi and rarely said his opinions on political issues signed a kol koroh with vehement language against the frum parties that were in the government.
Rabbi Levin explained it clearly, Reb Aaron did not. Reb Aaron did not owe anybody an explanation, but he did speak about it at the Aguda convention.
DeleteGimmel did not join Rabin's government, because they were sure that SHas would join them, and they would not be able to form a government. It was PRACTICAL, not 'hashkafah'.
Anon 11:53 - I am sure you mean to write that Gimmel thought that Shas would join the boycott of the government, and it would fail. Which is true, as anyone who was around in those days can testify.
DeleteThere was no 'shita' that we cannot join a leftist government, it was a practical point. As you write so eloquently
DeleteThat is a hint where you got your propaganda from : Hamodia? If assuming you are ger or similar
That gives you the street cred to spew for this city? Seriously?
How about checking up what Golda Meir publicly stated in her poignant eulogy for IM Levin ?
He's going to be that he's going to be your proof? Really?
How often the haredi parties were offered to join in different groupings?
How about checking the annual record from the knesset? Yes Ionly glance at sampling. It's all the same regurgitated narcissistic agenda
To those people complaining about the lockdown. You seem to have forgotten what the story was.
ReplyDeleteA pandemic arrived, and nobody had a clue what to do. Nobody in Lakewood came up with another solution, nobody had any idea what the best idea was. The entire world decided that lockdowns are the way to go. Some whiners grumbled, but did not produce a better solution. Murphy didn't do anything every other governor wouldn't have done, and he was doing the right thing at the time, according to the best available information at the time.
Hindsight is 20/20, and now some people might disagree. But holding the lockdown against him, as though he was trying to hurt people, is just wrong.
When are we going to get an representative organization that will represent us the people the taxpayers. Yes schools, shuls are important but that is the not what is the priority for us with the government. We want our houses and income to be less taxed, we want our quality off life to be improved with less construction and traffic. Less "VARIANCES' and more conformity.
ReplyDeleteLess variances is for the local zoning board. Why are they still in place when the Tzibbur doesn't want them?
ReplyDeleteLess taxes will not happen in our lifetime. Forget about it. No Republican ever managed to do so, or even wanted to do so.
And what about shuls in WG? Is citarelli going to make sure we could build our shul?
ReplyDeleteIf Hakoras hatov is so important than the olam owes a big yasher koach to Rav Yisroel Knopfler of Lakewood for taking Murphy to task with a lawsuit which is the main reason why shuls and yeshivos were allowed to open in NJ.
ReplyDeleteInstead the askanim who say vote murphy because of hakoras hatov were kefuyay tova to R Knopfler and had him arrested.
We have the bloc vote! We're all voting for Ciatarelli!
ReplyDeleteWho's hanging anonymous support letter for Murphy based on the Polls by Monmouth? It's illegal because it doesn't end with Endorsed By or Approved By or Paid For by?
ReplyDeleteReb Uren Reich SHLIT"A, specifically says his letter is to his talmidim, and not the entire tzibur.
ReplyDeleteObviously his yeshiva must have gotten something from Murphy, that he is makir tova for, and his talmidim can read between the lines.
As far as I know hakoras hatov, is for a favor, I am not aware that you owe hakoras hatov, to someone who was bad to you (high taxes, toeva etc.) but not as bad as the other guy in NY.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe Ciattereli is a big tzadik, he is also a politician, but it is time to vote out the bums.
Could you believe that a Torah community, has found excuses to keep voting in, a Meshumad (someone who converted in Church & married a shiksa), something not found in todays society for 30 plus years.
VOTE OUT THE BUMS< ALL OF THEM< THIS SECURE REELECTION HAS TO STOP.
What about the local bums we keep voting in? They destroyed this town and we keep re-electing them!!
ReplyDeleteWe have a choice, unless Rabbi Reich wrote a letter to his students about them as well.... Are there local polls showing the incumbents ahead?
DeleteAnd these bums stopped a shul from being built! No jokes
ReplyDeleteDear Mr October 28, 2021 at 3:36 PM - it's very hard to imagine or conclude how R' Aaron would feel about the hayntiga dems based on his opinions expressed 60+ years ago.
ReplyDeletethere is daas torah for a reason and all your dumb opinions dont make a difference we listen to our gedolim
ReplyDeleteIm Ein
DeleteDaas Havdalah me'naim
uplifting beautiful sentiment
DeleteTo be determined how
? The size of the beard? Title or family one randomly was born into? Popularity contest how many followers he manages to pick up?
IF one is a full-fledged disciple of a noted mentor for everything ,he
should follow them when it comes to Politics If he believes that his noted Mentor/
Manhig
has connection a connection to the subject.
I was by in '96 a great RY
who didn't even know who the presidential candidates were
voting for the incumbent is simple game theory. Its the only choice that benefits either way.
ReplyDeleteI'm voting Murphy
In a Robin hood society the poor may owe Hakoras Hatov to the politicians who stole the rich's money & gave it to them.
ReplyDeleteIn a reverse RobinHood society, the Rich , Connected, & those with mosdos (who are not for all of our children, they select who gets in, based on..), owe Hakoras hatov to the politicians who gave them them a pittance of the spoil robbed from the middle class & poor.
The midddle class & poor who were robbed, owe no hakoras hatov for those that robbed them.
Do you need hakoras hatov, because they only robbed you not killed you?
Those promoting Hakoras Hatov, represent themselves only, they have no idea how the Hamon am has been ... by the incumbents.
If this goes on can you imagine, how many hours a kid will spend on a school bus until he /she gets to school. R"L how many more accidents , school bus accidents, and pedestrian accidents, could CH"V happen.
Think about it if CH"V someone gets killed, are those who put the people in office who caused it, not partly guilty of the crime?
ReplyDeleteHakaras
Hatov Due to a country or state, first and foremost,
would be not to support candidates whose raison d'etre is subverting what makes the country or State healthy and stable?
Hakaros hatov for stealing my money, & distributing it to their cronies, be it mosdos, who don't accept everyone's children, or breaks for builders, bus companies etc.
ReplyDeleteOf course those mosdos need to have hakoras hatov, but not olom golom, who is being robbed.
As for being allowed to stay in the country, all candidates allow that.
It was PRACTICAL, not 'hashkafah'?
ReplyDeleteSo ludicrous that you can expect people to fall for that?
hard to imagine
Allow us explain to the audience which planet these interlocuters arrived from: the one with a vocabulary that has no Term
ReplyDeleteideology or convoluted to mean bring on the pork /kishka .And which kanoi somehow inverted to mean one who shows worry for values and traditions of other Jews ”amcha”
The old rabbis of Mizrahi who claimed the same converted to being now kano'im!
For The crux:
Yad Eliyahu
ever happened?
Let's walk through together.
Mr. Peres was offering more bags of
g
elt
Than Shamir
ReplyDeleteWhat about warmth and Sensibility? Mr. Peres showed more sensibility to
charedim
than distant and aloof Yitzhak Shamir
what about internal politics and settlements ? degel Align notably better with labor And what the clear and equivocal instructions were
(By the way "raising rabbits on the
Kibbutzim" was only a metaphor as ended a couple decades previously)
Stay with likud
how come?
Since still they align somewhat with Jewish tradition and our obligations to
keep it that way!
And a similar thing happened 1996 to a lesser extent
1984 - 85 Peres during the deadlock offered the religious zionists and religious parties if they join government in which Labour had
45 seats he would agree that they have a religious Zionist prime minister
They their credit turned him down!