Video below The Q&A panel at the Agudah convention featured questions on timely issues addressed by Rav Aaron Lopiansky R"Y of Yeshiva of Greater Washington and Rav Yosef Elefant R"M in Mir Yerushalayim moderated by R' Sruly Besser
- 4:00 minute mark: Conservative values became a mitzva is there a inyan to be invested in US politics
- 15:00 Should spouses go on vacation separately
- 21:30 Abuse, innocent rebbeim are victims and suspect- how do we stop it from being a one way street
- 36:25 1. People have too much money is that a problem? 2. why is everybody looking at what rich people do?
- 56:50 bochurim that are not productive in yeshiva should they leave yeshiva earlier
-1:09:40 should younger people make their own shul and leave a older communal shul
-1:19:00 The plight of older single girls how can we reeducate people on how to perceive them
These Rabbis are entitled to their opinion. But if all Agudah can come up with against Rabbi Miller are these two, they’ve lost. No one in their right minds thinks these people are comparable to Rabbi Miller, the Kasho Rov, and the Skulener Rebbe who all believed in voting based on. Social issues.
ReplyDeleteDear Esq. You profess to be an intellectual. As such, I’m sure that you are astutely aware that Rabbi Avigdor Miller ZT”L hashkafah and mehalech was divergent from what many other gedolim espoused. Namely the Gedolim affiliated with the Agudas Israel. These panelists are presenting at the Agudas Israel annual convention clearly are students of the other gedolim who treated a path different from Rabbi Avigdor Miller ZT”L.
DeleteI spoke to one of the close Chassidim of the Kasho Rov who told me that the Kasho Rov had no understanding of politics, and had no real opinions about it. People stretch statements of his to suit their agendas.
DeleteWhen Koch was running, there was a meeting of the Moetzes in America. Someone who was there told me that Reb Moshe held that social issues are not our business. None of the people you quote are worthy of shining Reb Moshe's shoes.
AnonymousNovember 29, 2021 at 5:38 AM
DeleteBaloney!
WHO that was there told you that Reb Moshe held that social issues are not our business? Why are only you privy to such knowledge and no one else?
Anyone familiar with the Jewish Observers of that period can attest how strongly Agudas Yisroel fought about such issues based on the guidance of the Moetzes
The Agudah did express their opinions and pushed for certain laws. But Reb Moshe saw no problem voting for Koch, even when he supported such laws. The Moetzes did not choose candidates based on how we identify with them, or their moral stances.
DeleteDear anonymous,
DeleteI don’t respond to people who don’t have the guts to post their names.
Neither did Rav Shach in EY.
Delete
DeleteFraudulent as typical. He wrote a public letter demanding that we should publicly oppose Koch's activities
that is though he kept pretty much away from political involvement
R Schwab was explicit and emphatic about Our obligation to the outside world when it came to elections
The same annoying commentors trying to veer our communities off the proper path.
first of all I happen to be a member of some organizations which Rabbi Lopiansky is also a member of
He certainly is not of the view that one should not vote for the right. He surely holds one should
Which means all he's attempting to do is
a. to be wary to go too far from the present baal habatish leadership.
B . he's warning the younger generation even when we are on the right as the only place for us, we ought still to be wary of
mimicking too much even subtle Christian influences
As Bnei Torah who are we supposed to take more seriously? Two Roshei Yeshiva or a guy who is so Mushrash in the Olam HaTumah that he identifies himself with a secular title as though that makes him a better person, an "Esq"?
Delete
DeleteThese comments would prefer if we would to remain in golus Forever. They want us to refrain from from what to get us out
R Yaakov Kamenetsky
Was emphatic when asked if we should support the candidate who has
Immoral values but is "friendly" to our communities or support the other candidate who has stood for strong moral values but was perceived as unfriendly
He declared “nein”
Even were the other candidate to be anti-semitic we should be supporting him flat-out
be supporting him
Mr/Mrs Cohen is back. With truncated sentences and mysterious hard Enters in the middle of an inspiring thought.
DeleteOf course, actual substance is pretty sparse.
Reb Moshe opposed immoral laws, yet had no problem voting for people who pushed immoral laws. Why? I don't know, but I do know that he is smarter than us and the keyboard warriors on this blog, and the Tzibbur of gung-ho Republicans in Lakewood.
DeleteWho told you he had no problem ,when presented with the evidence
where'd you get that notion from?
your belly ?
Republican
?
Who told you we identify with a party? Independent but we're a little fixing up the world that you pref guys rather mess up
secondly it's it's mister or Rabbi or even on or even more Superior title to you but yes when it when you're when you're when you're dictating to a lousy computer on the Run between dictating to last computer it does come out unfortunately left the night less than soup less than that and then you and then you forward it before you check then and it wasn't comes out as as it has been
Allot of boys are not meant for a rigorous full day learning and we are completely neglecting these boys.
ReplyDeleteBemchilas kavodom there are bigger rabbonim who disagreed and strongly opposed voting for leftist liberals who promote hashchasa. This panel is more like a mishpacha magazine infomercial pushing their leftist hashkafa and disdain for the right ignoring the tens of thousands of frum Jews who hold otherwise and are very aware of what the liberal left of today is doing to the country and the world. They are protecting themselves and their children from Sodom and Amorah is that something that comes from christianity??
ReplyDeleteRight I was thinking that based on the logic of "conservtive values" are really Xtian values they should really support a guy like Trump. No one can accuse him of being religious and following Xtain values and unlike the liberal politicians he can be trusted not to start up with religion so he should be the absolute ideal candidate.
DeleteAs an aside some of these Xtian values are in fact based on what is written in the Torah. Not our understanding of Torah of course but we should not mach avek a goy whose moral principles are based on he believes the Torah to be saying
They shouldn't support anyone. They should make a pragmatic choice, according to the information available. Maybe Trump, if he runs, maybe someone else. But the idea that we are partial to a candidate because he represents us or speaks our language or shares certain ideals should be foreign to us.
DeleteHe is the same Goy as the rest of them.
AnonymousNovember 29, 2021 at 6:56 AM
DeleteThis comment is just semantics. Once you decide to vote for someone according to the information available you are ipso facto supporting
Why, when all the askanim were pushing Murphy, was there no issue of “identifying” with Murphy?
ReplyDeleteBecause they 'pushed' Murphy because of what he did and will do. Not because we identify with him. Whereas our conservatives vote Republican because they identify with them.
DeleteAnd that is what these Gedolim are saying. Identifying with Goyim and their ideals is anti-Torah. Whether they are Christian or secular.
DeleteThat's an illiterate ridiculous presumption
Mr y cohen.
DeleteI second.
So let’s get this straight: One side wants to kill babies, force you to participate in gay weddings, and teach your children things we don’t believe in, and the other side opposes this but it has overtones of Christianity so we go with the baby killers?
ReplyDeleteNobody wants us to teach our children about things we don't believe in. They want the public schools to teach them. Not our schools. Nobody is being forced to attend a wedding, gay or straight.
DeleteIf you live so much amongst the Goyim that you see their issues as your issues, you have a problem. Leave them, and keep away from them, stop following their ideals, stop trying to be friendly with them. We have our own Torah, our own society, and our own beliefs.
Nobody wants us to teach our children about things we don't believe in.
DeleteIf you truly believe this then you are not familiar enough with leftist politicians ot have an opinion on this issue
I was disappointed with this panel. The answer to the first question sounded more like an op-ed of a Mispacha magazine.
DeleteHow are people chosen to be on this panel? Are they vetted to make sure they will say what Aguda baal habatim wants them to first? Why isn't someone like Rav Yisroel Reisman who unlike the panelists here is actually a Rav of large Aguda shul and straddles the world being both a Rav and Rosh Yeshiva at the same time asked to be on this panel? Plus the first question and the way it was phrased really stacked the deck in favor of the answer being given.
I strongly agree with what the panelist said that we should not inherently identify with either party. But I don't see how strongly feeling we are better off if one party wins
as identifying with a party any more than a guy saying "I'm an accountant" means he identifies more with the principles of accounting than Torah
Curious...since when is is it not a kosher concept to try stopping the world from descending into moral decay?
DeleteZaidy G - the concept is not kosher or non-kosher. It is a distraction. If both candidates were equally good/bad for our own prosperity and growth, we can deal with the minor issue of the world's moral decay. But if one seems better for our own benefit than the other, we don't care about the world's moral decay. Our impact is too small on that to give up the benefits, and the Torah did not make those matters our job. We have to keep Torah, not help the world.
DeleteInteresting that Agudah had a panel about the “Murder of Alta Fixler, could it happen here?” It happened in England because England is a thoroughly secular country. Avi Yankelewitz Esq.
ReplyDeleteThey said we here to take care of our selves! Not change the world!?
ReplyDeleteYes yes yes
They meant it's all about the money! And only money.
What about stoping abortion assisted suicide etc. This affects us. We can not turn the other way for money
That is also taking care of our selves
Not everything is 💰
Being able to live like a Jew without worrying about the hospital killing us. like in covid is a very direct concern for every Jew
Not just 💰💰💰💰
So yes let's not get emotional. Let's vote sechel
Murphy is a rotzayach in many ways affecting us jews
How did any Jew vote for him???
Perhaps were they emotionally involved with him? Or did 💰 answer everything?
I would think that a decision who is best for the Tzibur should be made by people who are involved in these issues, whose minds are taken up by the complexity of politics and compromise.
DeletePeople who read some news articles and jump to a decision are doing themselves a disservice.
If you want to decide on Murphy's record, figure out what his choices were, why he did what he did, what the legislature would have allowed, and what the other guy will realistically be able to do. Then figure out what we need, and decide according to that.
'Murphy is a rotzeach' is not a basis on which to base a political decision.
You guys totally missed the boat. These gedolim answered every question with such wisdom but they don’t need my haskama. Who are we to argue with them?
ReplyDeleteleftists within the Agudah have attacked Trump throughout his presidency while ki$$ing up to andrew Cuomo and his ilk in NYS government because they brought home the bacon. Yet it was Cuomo who shut down the schools and shuls who turned against them and they even gloated about it at the convention.
ReplyDeleteSame thing with Phil Murphy who legalized Marijuana that is a dangerous threat to everyone but the Agudah supported him cuz it all cones down to the Benjamin's and the churban that legalizing weed could have is not a factor.
The Aguda has never taken a leftist stance. They have been willing to support leftists when it is advantageous for them and their constituency, but I have never seen a 'leftist' stance from the Agudah.
Deletehmm
Deletethe old saying goes "tell me who your friends are and we will tell you who you are"
The Aguda is no longer representing right wing yiddishkeit. There is a new yiddishkeit that involves the very active pursuit of money and luxury, while checking off the daily boxes of "did the daf", "put on tefillin", "Did" shacharis. The rest of the day they live without doing aveiros, but with no shayches to anything that is in pursuit of God's intentions. And these become the "leaders" of our shuls, schools, and communities.
ReplyDeleteThe Aguda is no longer representing right wing yiddishkeit.
DeleteI can't think of a better way of illustrating the point that the two Rabbonim were making than this comment. What in the world is "right wing yiddishkeit"? There is Torah yiddishkeit and there is everything else. Keep "right wing" for talk radio and coffee room hock. The Torah that I was taught doesn't require a political label.
Another thread full of bizu talmdeai chachomim. People who have spent many decades being osek in limud and harbotzas hatorah day and night, men whos lives are the very definition of being marbeh kvod shomayim, get bashed by people who have clearly nothing better to do with their time and don't have the mental capacity to understand a nuanced view (Shockingly, the Torah might not fit perfectly into one of the predefined US political parties), for aveira chamura of not waving a GOP flag with enough hislahavus. Disgusting.
ReplyDeleteIn real life did you ever actually meet someone who thinks the Republican party is the party of Torah as the panelists were implying? Or do the people who so strongly support the Republican feel that if we want to continue following the Torah we need the Republican in charge?
DeleteWhen the Supreme court ruled that Cuomo's red zones were unconstitutional I asked one those big "Torah not party" activist and writers how he can still oppose people voting for Trump when the universal consensus was that had it been Democratic appointed judges making the decision the results would be different. And it was straight Democrat politicians and judges who supported Cuomo until that point. The guys ridiculous answer was "I never fought against Trump supreme court appointees" which was pure nonsense because if you fought against Trump getting elected then you fought his judge being appointed and by extension for things like the "red zones" and you literally fought for the Democratic party over Torah
To answer your first question, absolutely.
DeleteBut I think you might be missing the bigger point. I think the response was regarding the hashkafa, not the l'maisa. L'maisa, if we are to vote based on what has a practical nafka mina to our families, more often than not we may end up voting for the conservative candidate (or maybe not). But the idea is not to marry ourselves to a goyishe ideology, and while it may surprise some people, all US political parties represent goyishe ideologies.
Just look at the threads on this site. Many people were of the belief that voting Republican is itself the goal, even if a Democrat were to represent his interests. They railed against those who used their interests to decide, instead of pushing for the Republican position.
DeleteIndeed, there is a simple test for these things.
Besides opinions, there are political spins and lies. There is nothing ideological about the efficacy of the covid vaccine. Yet the stance of the opposers almost always comes together with a right wing slan. Why? If they were truly relying on the evidence, why rely on that evidence over the other? There are conflicting studies about which is better, natural immunity or vaccine immunity. Yet political stances make the decision for many in our community. Why?
People identify with the party, and rail against others who don’t. It isn’t pragmatic, practical or issues based.
The Torah never said that red zones were or weren't constitutional.
DeleteThe Torah did not gain from the Trump appointees.
This has nothing to do with Torah.
The Torah told us to ask doctors and base the halachos on that. Not government regulations. We ignored the Halacha, and didn't do a thing about Covid until the government forced us to. To our eternal shame. We had no visionary leadership פני הדור כפני הכלב, we had people playing catchup.
DeleteWould it be presumptuous to admit that there are some wonderful men who left America in the late teens or twenty
have been out of touch with the bigger reality except insofar as it develops from the shteller
may be they'll eventually get to have cognizance
In the interim, however,it would be too much to ask them to deal with such bigger issues
LkwdGuyNovember 29, 2021 at 6:33 AM
DeleteYou are the only one who sews bizuy chachomim it is a standard tactic to undermine someone who disagrees with you by implying they are mevazeh the roshei yeshiva.
People have rebbeim and hashkafos that disagree with what was said. Agudah daas Torah is not binding on all of the klal
Anon 7:39 said, "We ignored the Halacha, and didn't do a thing about Covid until the government forced us to. To our eternal shame. We had no visionary leadership פני הדור כפני הכלב, we had people playing catchup"
DeleteShame on us that we didn't enter the trains to Auschwitz until we were forced to.
AnonymousNovember 29, 2021 at 7:39 AM
DeleteWow! You epitomize a guy who will support whatever anti-Semitic and anti-Torah position his party takes. Even today when NYS itself acknowledges that there was no medical criteria or logic behind the red zones you still faithfully repeat the party line that those who defended them back then said.
Delete"
האנשים הטבעיים שאינם מלומדים, יש להם יתרון בהרבה דברים על המלומדים, בזה שלא נתטשטש אצלם השכל הטבעי והמוסר העצמי על ידי השגיאות העולות מהלימודים, ועל ידי חלישות הכחות וההתקצפות הבאה על ידי העול הלימודי.
"
So Cohen basically is telling us that we need ignorant people to lead us, the less our leaders know, the better.
DeleteI guess that should be a Trump slogan.
But it certainly explains Cohen's position on many issues
Anon 9:12 – you misread my post (from 9:12).
DeleteI did not think the government weren’t political. I knew that they were not deciding according to the science. That is why when DeBlasio told people to go out and enjoy life, I knew that he was not basing himself on science.
We, as a community, ignored the signs. We were the ones who relied on the government, instead of making our own guidelines. We gathered on Purim as before, with no eye to the pandemic that was about to rage. Our Rabbonim and leaders did not contact experts to discuss the issue and see what adjustments to make. We stuck our heads in the sand and ignored it. When the government swung the other way, we had no answer for them. We didn’t even try.
Basically, there were two option: A. do nothing about the pandemic, just ignore it. B. Follow the government regulations. Nobody even tried to think of a personalized option for our community. Maybe have Shuls at limited capacity, staggered Minyanim etc. Nothing at all. We were too indolent to even discuss it. All we could do was give chizuk speeches and rail against the government.
DeleteAll anonymous goes again. When you lose on merits
pull out obviously next best weapon then
we do empathize with you
Cohen - you brought that ridiculous quote. I just translated it. You wrote that ignorant people know better, own it.
DeleteHere is Google Translate's job on your quote
The natural people who are not scholars, have an advantage in many things over the scholars, in that we do not obscure their natural intellect and self-morality by the errors which arise from the studies, and by the weakening of the powers and the subsequent froth by the academic yoke.
DeleteA feeble translation. By the way the quote is doing people like you a favor.For us the quote is irrelevant
Very choshuv of the rabbonim to go on a public forum and put themselves out that way to express the views that many of us simple people would like to hear.I'm sure they knew that they would have people (such as some of the commenters on this thread) bashing them and being mivaze them. And af al pi kein they went ahead and did this for the benefit of the tzibur! Ashreinu syeish lonu rabbonim kze!
ReplyDelete
DeleteWho must they pay heed to more? Those who Express their altruistic concerns albeit on the outside or the ones with this big organization self-perpetuating policies
Who brought them
And who raised issues be dealt with, like a push poll, so that the answers will suit them ?
limited freedom of expression at the convention..
Anything for select state of 3 Museum they have limited freedom of expression at this convention at the convention. Raphael certainly if you have privately you would say to vote for the right that's a new one, too. Most of the conservative conservative values insert finally is some issues are being whatever however however much you wish to go talk to them some things are beyond their Forte something that they go public of things that are beyond their Forte
What dressing do you take with that word salad?
Delete
DeleteMy
computer has been acting up on the run again
Vey iz mir
Should that that detract from the serious value of the Content
To Anonymous aka A.S.,
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line is that the overwhelming majority of the tzibbur feel that the Hashkafos that they were brought up with, for example: "being moser nefesh to fight for our morals even if it costs us financially or politically" and "being true to our ideals" is no longer the hashkafa of the Agudah. The fact is that the yungeman in BMG to the 9 to 5 working baal habayis all over town feel disenfranchised with the Agudah and no longer identify themselves with their Haskafos. and most importantly do not trust the Askanim to represent the true Torah ideals.
This is a huge issue, and should not be blamed on blogs, rather this requires serious introspection on your part.
The burden of introspection is on the other guy. Nice
DeleteSo when respected Roshei Yeshiva express an opinion different to that of yours, they need to practice introspection.
Anonymous 8:00 AM
ReplyDeleteWell said !!
This is the fact !
Most of us feel the current Hashkofos of the Aguda are not consistent with the way we were raised .
Letter from Rav Shach zatzal printed in שמושה של תורה - משלחנו של רבינו
ReplyDeleteevery liberal law passed in America will find its way to eretz Yisrael
HE similarly instructed Mr.Loebenstein
Councillor of Hackney,London as well that it is incumbent there for on all those who are involved to fight these
Edicts
Right now, Israel is mostly more liberal than America.
DeleteBen Yitzchok should tell us exactly what the issue was, and then we can figure out how it impacts us.
Fighting for those edicts is fine but its all a balance. Rav Shach allowed degel to join a Labor government when it was pretty liberal on social matters because overall he felt that would be better.
DeleteFalse
DeleteTell us when? 1990? no 1996? no
the unity government of 1985?? no
Which social issue did he ever given out in on to any government as a matter of policy
DeleteWhen did he ever accept any offer from the Labour party which was even
better on social issues in those days overall,though about The same on religious issues,as today ??
The only party with such a platform equivalent more or less what you were referring to Was Meretz which he turned down out of hand any possibility of sitting with them in 1992
Here is a general question I have on those who preach "we don't identify with any party". (not in regard to this panel)
ReplyDeleteWhy do they seem to always support Democrats and oppose Republicans? Assuming these people really believed what they are writing why are their own political views so clear and so party line?
DeleteWe as well Don't really identify with a party per s`e.
We however grasp to work together with those who prefer to clean up the mess flawed and faulty as they are
while they rather be on the side of those who are making the mess
Negativity bias. You only notice when they support Democrats. They did support Trump, didn't they? At least the Va'ad did.
Delete
ReplyDeleteRav Zev Cohen of Chicago who is
Rav of a shul was the last speech at the Convention.
His attitude and style is very different compared with the brief challenge deflected above
How about if this blog post that speech as well for contrast
To quote Rav Shmuel Kanetzki this very summer about the current American political scene and voting
ReplyDeleteYou see the matzav, the anarchy… it’s frightening. G-d has become a dirty word in much of America, religion and religious institutions are their enemy — we need rachamei Shamayim...
He also explicitly said to vote for Trump. It is his PERSONAL faults that have nothing to do with (our)politics and our voting.
The "keep Torah out of politics crowd" unusually says the exact opposite of the above
Lots of people have lots of opinions in the Mishpacha magazine
DeleteThese Roshei Yeshiva on this panel are greater Talmidei Chachamim than all the Choshuve interviewees in the Mishpacha, and they make more sense to boot.
I'm not ch'v knocking anyone on the panel or anything that they said but I do want to know
ReplyDelete(1)why were they specifically chosen out of all the many Talmedey Chachomim involved in both Haskafa and klal issues?
(2)who chooses which questions to ask, which questions NOT to ask and how the questions and issues are presented?
"spoke to one of the close Chassidim of the Kasho Rov who told me that the Kasho Rov had no understanding of politics, and had no real opinions about it. People stretch statements of his to suit their agendas"?
ReplyDeleteShall that be stated now in converse?
Those however distinguished even revered perhaps they may have been or are readily quoted by people to suit their agendas though they were less Adept in comprehending how social issues more crucially than just about everything else are
"Downstream from politics"
Your word salads seem delicious, but not really too logical
DeleteSo in short this Is above your pay grade
DeleteFor you the discussion you are
able to hold your own have to do with food ?
Twenty five years ago the argument of “we don’t care what they do “ may have been an accurate depiction of the political scene we face. Today even assuming the argument was once valid and correct it no reflects the reality of who and what we are dealing with when it comes to liberal politicians and policies.
ReplyDeleteThings like the government fight against metitza bpeh, control of the curriculum in the New York State Yeshivas, Coumo’s red zones etc. show that we have already reached the point where the liberals are holding by actively working “lhaskeychom Torasech” R'L
Not to mention other issues like their efforts to have anyone who doesn’t share their view on Toeva be considered as a racist who must be dealt with and put in their place.
Those contentions well-taken as they are still are reactive belatedly rather than proactive
Deletemaking alliances for proper issues to Simply
instead waiting for whoever "be fed to the crocodile last "
Re:Fixler
On a contemporaneous Thursday evening panel with the one posted above lefkowitz was challenged for which he responded at first smugly
that what happened in England won't come here
Because here the government doesn't have much hand in raising our children to which a woman disproved that with transgender and he was forced to walk back part of what he said
Fixler would be a classic. There was almost identical
precedent two years earlier for a non-jewish kid and even more
precise 6 years earlier .Where were unzereh communities back then ?
Comfortable that if ever comes comes to us our Frum organizations will be on top of it and we'll take care of it? Until they just flopped
Busy with making alliances for Frivolities which will be on front page of a magazine
?