A campaign was launched to get the Lakewood community tested for covid19 after serious pushback from parents, schools and residents who are not going along with it. There are ads PR articles and billboards introducing the Lakewood covid testing initiative. The Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva did not sign any letter approving of this. Customarily during the coronavirus the Roshei yeshiva attached their signatures to other letters on matters pertaining to covid-19 so far that has not happened. The Ad says that rabbonim and askanim urge the klal to test and the initiative is endorsed by Agudath Israel. In the ads it states clearly the testing is not to make sure that people who are not well should test to see if they are positive, rather specifically states in small leters on the bottom "for the safety of the public if you are experiencing any symptoms of not feeling well please refrain from visiting the testing sites". The testing is only for healthy people who hopefuly will have a negative result which will give govt officials a snapshot with data about the pandemic in the Lakewood community. The PR articles continue with a constant threat of fear that the only reason schools, shuls and businesses in Lakewood are allowed to remain open is because of the testing otherwise everything will immediately get shut down, need proof well they tell us to look across the bridge in NY and see what Cuomo has done. Finally they acknowledge the reluctance of the rest of the kehila to test not because people have brains and have valid concerns, not because people speak to their doctors who advise them, not because people speak to their local rav who advises them but as the press release states " It is undeniable that in recent days voices have cropped up sowing confusion and misinformation about testing. There have been wild claims about testing that were debunked by public officials such as Rabbi Avi Schnall of Agudath Israel. We are indeed a generation that grew up in the shadow of the Holocaust, which may explain why our trust in authority is lower than in other communities. When parents are handed long documents to sign on behalf of their children, it is natural to panic".
This discussion should be had with gedolim not random lay people. Public policy related to pandemics should only be set with those who have medical credentials and expertise in the field of infectious diseases with no other motives but to protect the safety and health of the community. There are schools that are not asking parents for consent to randomly test their children. There are many who hold halachically and hashkaficly not test or draw blood if there's no medical reason to do so. People do not want to be used as guinea pigs for someone's study especially that the rates in Lakewood have gone way downhill while other parts of the state have gone up.
To use the threat of mosdos shutting down a month after the second wave peaked in Lakewood is misleading. Lakewood is a town of 150,000 people the same metric of measuring positivity rate with percentages is used for a town whose population is 10,000 people. There are many ways to calculate positivity rates and get very different results from the same amount of people tested. See this article about several ways to calculate and get different results. https://covidtracking.com/blog/test-positivity.
Will this be a 1 time test or will the same people require to test again and again.
Another aspect that leads to skepticism and weariness is there a financial component. Why the need to add more testing sites if there is ample amount of urgent cares and medical offices for everyone to get tested. Parents should be given a right and an option to test their children after school in their own time and comfort. Why is everything controlled by who gets to do the testing.
we are a עם חכם ונבון and a עם קשה עורף. When demanding something like mass testing the community should be respected and given the real true answers, not spins lies and misinformation with fear mongering, that even those who are not children of holocaust survivors find suspicious.
(Submitted)
Umm the Vaad Harobbinim very clearly signed on this with a letter with their signature. This Vaad Horabbanim was endorsed by the Roshei Yeshiva.
ReplyDeleteThere are other rabbonim in town too. The RY signed other letters why are their signatures missing from this one
DeleteSo you decided to take a comment, and make it into an article.
ReplyDeleteThe writer could not even put his name to it, as Roshei Mosdos and Rabbonim have clearly done to their opinion. This is not worth the electronic ink used to write it.
If someone came with an alternative plan as to how to deal with the Governor, with the backing of leaders in the community, we would have to think which method is better. But when one side is just חרבן, just here to undermine the other, with no viable alternative, only a chaos promoter would accept his opinion
Glad that you agree that this is an opinion and other Rabbonim and Roshei mosdos and amcha yidden have every right to disagree and have their own opinions.
DeleteIt is an opinion, just like the one of the flat-earthers, the anti-vaxxers, and the meshichistn. I agree. And all should be permitted to express said opinion.
DeleteThere is a place in London called Hyde Park corner for these things.
Ill put more trust in an anonymouse comment then a paid for Press Release on the vaad propaganda machine
DeleteLet them make money. It is not necessarily a bad thing. It is probably beneficial to test to a certain extent. However, the PR is due to massive payouts of $150 per test. These testing centers are popping up and pushing testing to profit in the many tens of thousands of dollars weekly
ReplyDeleteThis article is misleading.
ReplyDeleteNobody is being asked to draw blood. The 'hashkafic and halachic' reasons are bogus. There is no reason to refuse a simple test up the nose.
People are being asked to test themselves makes no difference how the test is administered
DeleteTHere are no 'halachic or hashkafic' reasons to refuse testing. Only political goishe ones. But the writer of this screed decided to bring over the blood issue, as though that mattered. Because he is being dishonest.
DeleteOnly dishonesty can cause someone to be against testing.
I love how so many on here are experts on all aspects of Hashkafah to un-equivocally state there is no Hashkafic reason not to get tested. The Steipler in a letter wrote that one should not take unnecessary medical tests, and even went further, and said their where times when he knew he had a certain machalah, but did not test himself, because onece a positive result was given, it would be much harder for tefilos to change the gezeirah (see Maasah with Elisha, when he was Mechayeh Meisim)
DeleteWhat is wrong with helping out a case study? Why the resistance? If science gets smarter with my sample, why should I mind?
ReplyDelete(That is, even if these conspiracy theories have the slightest truth to them)
A case study that can be detrimental.
DeleteFollow the gelt
ReplyDeleteThe test sites are awesome!
ReplyDeleteIn the summer, my children needed testing. I had to wait for a couple of hours for a test. Now, I went to a site, and was done in less than three minutes.
Yay sites! Go for it!
Are they allowing kids to test at these sites
DeleteWhen in doubt, call your LOR!
ReplyDeleteFake news. Any school will allow you to test anywhere as long as you bring them the results. Its just easier if everybody goes to the same place and the info is transmitted in one shot go the school ,but if you rather go yourself, its no problem. No school that I know of has any financial gain from this other than the headache of having to divert thru office staff to this task .
ReplyDeleteNot true! The schools did not give that option and demanded a consent form. stop the revisionism to fit a narrative
DeleteFalse. Our school allows you to go anywhere but then you are on your own. If you want the school to take care of it ,then you have to give a consent form. I saw a letter from the Igud Hamosdos to all schools saying that its acceptable to get tested anywhere. It just causes a paper work nightmare for the school as they have to run after parents to collect a thousand forms instead of getting one spreadsheet from Chemed . So you don't know what you are talking about.
DeleteMore lies. the askanim forced the schools to take a certain vendor and did not offer the schools an option to do it themselves. They never gave parents an opt out option and lied that it is legally mandated when it is not. This is all about power and money and bragging rights about their connections with Ttenton.
DeleteSo nice of you to lie. My kids school gave us the choice as long as we bring in the official results . I know others that did also. So stop your lies.
DeleteThe lies are coming from you. No one said it was legally mandated. All they said was that the governor requested this and it makes sense so we can give the State a better clearer picture of the true numbers in lakewood. No one is forcing anyone to draw blood, no one is submitting your paperwork in the government database so the Kapo can come take you away in the middle of the night....No schools forced anyone either. It was REQUESTED and no one came chasing those that did not sign the form yet. As for why they want one vendor, as was mentioned earlier, it eases the paperwork load significantly when they get results from one place for everyone.
Deletewhy are they not testing for antibodies reinfection is very rare and only in one case were antibodies verified and then the person became ill again. that's 1 case in the world
ReplyDeleteYou are quite behind in the facts. There are currently many such people, although for a time it was only one. There is a lady who is currently hospitalized from Lakewood, who was tested positive, then negative, with positive for antibodies. And she was infected again.
DeletePeople keep mentioning that you can get re-infected. If that is the case, then why is the government and big pharma spending tens of billions on developing a vaccine?
DeleteAt best, a vaccine simulates infection to create a immuno-body response. No vaccine works better than actual exposure which creates natural anti-bodies
עיין שם:
ReplyDeletehttp://rabbiylevin.com/index.php/2020/10/20/kapo-avi-schnall-vs-rabbi-kanarek-a-tzadik-in-our-times/
There are lots of pills in the pharmacy
DeleteThe criteria being used to determine if an area should be locked down is percentage of tests that are positive. So in an area hwere peole who are not sick are smart enough to not waste resources on unnecessary testing, the rate goes up and the area gets locked down. Stupid! The only way to counter this dangerous narishkeit is for a lot of healthy people who already have anti-bodies to get themselves tested as often as possible. IF YOU HAVE ANTI-BODIES, GO GET TESTED!
ReplyDeleteHello the Lakewood numbers are in the teens the virus peaked a while back. Testing can only make things worse. Smart people are not testing There is no indication that the state or county will include negative test results into their calculation. They did not do that in NY. Negative test today could be positive tomorrow.
DeleteBeware: if you are testing because you really need to know if you have the virus, only go to an actual medical center. Do not go to a pop up site that is set up specifically to boost the number of positive results.
ReplyDeleteVehameivin yavin
Oops! I meant negative results! Don't go to a site specifically set up to boost negative results.
ReplyDeleteIncluding anyone coming to your child's school to test
ReplyDelete"We are indeed a generation that grew up in the shadow of the Holocaust"
ReplyDeleteThe divergence was there even before
Proof: Western European jews are more likely to heed Authority
Good point !!
DeleteThey tried to fool and bully the plam but it didnt work. How embarresing and shameful that those who represent lakewood use lies trickery and deception to satiate their quest for control power and money.
ReplyDeleteWho tried to fool anybody ? I spoke to a friend that heard the call from the 2 askanim to the mosdos . The askanim clearly stated that they were not telling any mosad or parent what to do. That was not their job and everybody should decide for themselves. They just reported the fact that based on their conversations with state officials that without testing, we would very likely be shut down similar to what happened in NY and that the previous rules already on the books, allowed them to do that based on the numbers . As a matter of fact,once they reported what they knew , they said we can now get off the call because the decision of whether to risk closing down the yeshivos by not testing ,is not being made by us . So nobody forced anybody to do anything other than some people saved thousands of kids from not learning.
DeleteThis is all Monday morning quaterbacking responding to the backlash after attempting to use strongarm tactics on the roshei mosdos the town and innocent children. Not to mention the gaavah of taking credit for keeping yeshivos open egen some of these askanim on the phone call have massered on the community during the first wave.
DeleteYou obviously have a hatred fir somebody. I spoke to several people involved with mosdos. Other than that 1 phone call where they gave over the facts and told the mosdos to make the decisions, they never got involved .Even on that 1 and only phone call ,They never spoke about where and how to test. All those things are up to each mosad which makes their own decisions . So your hatred fir these 2 people just makes you lie . I have nothing to do with those 2 people and you can like or dislike them ,but lying to get your hatred across us not acceptable.
DeleteOn top of all the other reasons to be obviously against weed
ReplyDeleteeg cultural and attitude changer, gateway drug to worse stuff
it also makes for slovenly, dirtier communities and populace