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Monday, June 17, 2024
A Prevalent 'attitude' toward Adirei Hatorah event
Hashkafa With Reb Gershon Ribber shlita
Dispersing a prevalent 'attitude' toward adirei hatorah event
The chosson mashal is no shaychus. We are happy for our brother the chosson because at some point in time we each get our own turn to be the chosson and we expect everyone to reciprocate. Ma shein kein hachi, where its a one way street and hence the shaila
I've seen older singles who are at an age that they aren't so convinced that their turn will come, still celebrate at their friends and relatives children's simchos. Even though they are suffering with the painful reality that their tafkid in this world may r'l not include such simchas. I've never heard anyone complain about the insensitivity of making or inviting them to such events
I agree with the comment on the chosson. The yungeleit have no clue what it means to work all day and either get up and learn at 6am or come home eat supper spend a few minutes with their kids and run to night seder. Then they're also expected to support the guys sitting in yeshiva (some are taking up space and some are actually learning). I also don't agree that every baalebas 1st learnt in kollel for some time. There are (gasp) some that don't learn in kollel. To say full time kollel yungeleit are the ones that are producing baalebatim that are koveia itim is not 100% correct. Let's really just accept the fact that the Adirei event is an event to give kovod to the gvirim. Sorry to say it as it is.
The yungeleit having a clue or not has no bearing on the issue at hand.
Those of us who were brought up on the belief that full-time toraso umanuso is a great value, are not confused by the idea that those who go to work, with tremendous messiras nefesh for Torah, have great schar in Heaven. On this world, we are to show respect to those on the higher madreiga of toraso umanuso, even if you receive more gan eden. No different to the young ba'al messiras nefesh vs. the old man - מפני שיבה תקום has nothing to do with schar in Heaven. A Cohen Gadol may not have withstood the Yetzer Hara that the simple person did, yet the rules of respect are from Olam Hazeh, not Olam Haba.
And the idea that there would be anywhere near the amount of kov'ei ittim among the baa'alei battim if not for the kollelim is ludicrous. There may be exceptions, but only a system that respects Torah to the nth will produce those who push themselves beyond their abilities.
Btw, the kevi'us ittim among ba'alei battim in Lakewood still could be elevated. Are Shuls full on most Sundays, legal holidays, Shabbasos, and Yomim Tovim? They could be much fuller, there could be many more shiurim, and we all need to push things ahead. Things are good, but could be better.
of course the learning of balhabatim is an outgrowth of the kollel system. i grew up before kollel learning was widespread and, at that time, very few balhabatim learned every day. because many balhabatim of today learned in kollel, they continued learning every day after they went to work. it thus became the accepted practice amongst all self-respecting balhabatim. even though some balhabatim did not learn in kollel, the reason they are learning everyday is because this has become the accepted practice, which is a result of the kollelim.
I am a balabus who spent 10 years in kollel and I don't understand the complaint. This event is dedicated to those learning all day, many with a great degree of mesiras nefesh. These are holding up the world literally. Yes there is a big level for those who are kovea ittim but it doesn't come close to learning all day From my experience, its wasn't easier when I was in yeshiva than now with my various sedorim during the day And there are events dedicated to the kvius ittim such as the Siyum Hashas, Oraysoh and Dirshu siyumim
What difference does it make who is better and who is better why doesn’t everyone work on themselves in their avodas Hashem what they are supposed to do. Part of everyone’s avoda is too look at evreythign with an eyin tova even a dinner that BMG makes and doesn't call it a dinner
People shouldn't look at fake things with an ayin tova. A fundraiser that says it is giving kavod to yungeleit but in reality is to give kavod to the gvirim and push that in the yungeleit's faces is a disgrace. If this is about the yungeleit then skip the boxes and let everyone sit together as one celebrating the yungeleit. Who are the RY posing with the night of adirei? That's right they are sitting in the boxes for 2 hours before it starts shmoozing with the gvirim and posing for pics with them not with the yungeleit.
There's nothing fake about an evening celebrating the purity of Torah learning by sincere בני תורה so that gvirim should be motivated to support that effort. The בני תורה have access to the ראשי ישיבה all day every day in the בתי מדרש, but on this night, the ראשי ישיבה sit with the gvirim and discuss ways that they can support the בני תורה. It's not so hard to understand and every yungerman gets it too. They're grateful for the fact that the R"Y work so hard to enlist the support of the gvirim so that they can sit and learn.
None of this is hard. It just requires setting aside the bitterness.
Nobody is bitter. The yungeleit and the yeshiva bochurim see it and are nauseated too. Not sure which rock your head is buried under but most yungeleit have nothing to do with the ry. I’m also not sure why it’s hard for you to understand what I clearly stated that they should have fancy events for the gevirim but this is not the time for it.
Did you read what you wrote immediately after the words, "nobody is bitter"?
Do you not see your own words? And you claim that no one is bitter? Can you think of a better word than bitter? I know you tried to substitute it with nauseated but they're identical in this regard.
The point is not whether the yungerleit have a shaychus with the RY. The point is that it's perfectly ok for the RY to spend some time with the gvirim who sustain the yeshiva and it doesn't diminish from the time the yungerleit have as one of the commenters above claimed.
If this isn't the time for them to spend with the gvirim, pray tell, when is the right time? When the yungerleit are not present and the effect is greatly diminished? You're clearly not involved in fundraising and your opinion displays that.
Bitter is the nicest word to describe your attitude. There are plenty of others, but let's stay positive and stick with bitter. Sheesh.
You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but then don't claim not to be bitter. They're bitter. And remain so. And they'll reap the fruits of their bitterness sadly. Tragic.
Mr fundraiser adirei hatorah who is busy writing comments on hv on the treif internet. Why are you attacking someone who made a valid point? Why the name calling? I wonder if you live in wg where there were those that couldn’t argue substance so they resorted to name calling and it got pretty nasty.
I don't work for Adirei Torah. I don't live in Westgate either. I also didn't attack anyone. I simply pointed out that the commenter is very bitter. That's not an attack, but a statement of fact. And I also pointed out that wallowing in bitterness and blaming everyone else for your issues will not prove to be a winning strategy. It's a very sad and unhappy way to live life. And it affects everyone around you including your spouse and your children. That's it. Sorry if it's harsh. The truth isn't gentle. But it is worth paying attention to.
The chosson mashal is no shaychus. We are happy for our brother the chosson because at some point in time we each get our own turn to be the chosson and we expect everyone to reciprocate. Ma shein kein hachi, where its a one way street and hence the shaila
ReplyDeleteI've seen older singles who are at an age that they aren't so convinced that their turn will come, still celebrate at their friends and relatives children's simchos. Even though they are suffering with the painful reality that their tafkid in this world may r'l not include such simchas. I've never heard anyone complain about the insensitivity of making or inviting them to such events
DeleteShvache propaganda
DeleteI agree with the comment on the chosson.
ReplyDeleteThe yungeleit have no clue what it means to work all day and either get up and learn at 6am or come home eat supper spend a few minutes with their kids and run to night seder. Then they're also expected to support the guys sitting in yeshiva (some are taking up space and some are actually learning). I also don't agree that every baalebas 1st learnt in kollel for some time. There are (gasp) some that don't learn in kollel. To say full time kollel yungeleit are the ones that are producing baalebatim that are koveia itim is not 100% correct. Let's really just accept the fact that the Adirei event is an event to give kovod to the gvirim. Sorry to say it as it is.
Well put
DeleteThe yungeleit having a clue or not has no bearing on the issue at hand.
DeleteThose of us who were brought up on the belief that full-time toraso umanuso is a great value, are not confused by the idea that those who go to work, with tremendous messiras nefesh for Torah, have great schar in Heaven. On this world, we are to show respect to those on the higher madreiga of toraso umanuso, even if you receive more gan eden. No different to the young ba'al messiras nefesh vs. the old man - מפני שיבה תקום has nothing to do with schar in Heaven. A Cohen Gadol may not have withstood the Yetzer Hara that the simple person did, yet the rules of respect are from Olam Hazeh, not Olam Haba.
And the idea that there would be anywhere near the amount of kov'ei ittim among the baa'alei battim if not for the kollelim is ludicrous. There may be exceptions, but only a system that respects Torah to the nth will produce those who push themselves beyond their abilities.
Btw, the kevi'us ittim among ba'alei battim in Lakewood still could be elevated. Are Shuls full on most Sundays, legal holidays, Shabbasos, and Yomim Tovim? They could be much fuller, there could be many more shiurim, and we all need to push things ahead. Things are good, but could be better.
of course the learning of balhabatim is an outgrowth of the kollel system. i grew up before kollel learning was widespread and, at that time, very few balhabatim learned every day.
Deletebecause many balhabatim of today learned in kollel, they continued learning every day after they went to work. it thus became the accepted practice amongst all self-respecting balhabatim. even though some balhabatim did not learn in kollel, the reason they are learning everyday is because this has become the accepted practice, which is a result of the kollelim.
What about the bal habatim who learn beiyun 6 to 8 hours a day and work from 11 to 5 and learn the rest of the day ?
ReplyDeleteאשריהם וטוב להם
DeleteI am a balabus who spent 10 years in kollel and I don't understand the complaint.
ReplyDeleteThis event is dedicated to those learning all day, many with a great degree of mesiras nefesh. These are holding up the world literally. Yes there is a big level for those who are kovea ittim but it doesn't come close to learning all day
From my experience, its wasn't easier when I was in yeshiva than now with my various sedorim during the day
And there are events dedicated to the kvius ittim such as the Siyum Hashas, Oraysoh and Dirshu siyumim
What difference does it make who is better and who is better why doesn’t everyone work on themselves in their avodas Hashem what they are supposed to do.
ReplyDeletePart of everyone’s avoda is too look at evreythign with an eyin tova even a dinner that BMG makes and doesn't call it a dinner
@8:54 great job a yeshiva guy posing as a balabus.
ReplyDeletePeople shouldn't look at fake things with an ayin tova. A fundraiser that says it is giving kavod to yungeleit but in reality is to give kavod to the gvirim and push that in the yungeleit's faces is a disgrace. If this is about the yungeleit then skip the boxes and let everyone sit together as one celebrating the yungeleit. Who are the RY posing with the night of adirei? That's right they are sitting in the boxes for 2 hours before it starts shmoozing with the gvirim and posing for pics with them not with the yungeleit.
ReplyDeleteHere we go again.
DeleteThere's nothing fake about an evening celebrating the purity of Torah learning by sincere בני תורה so that gvirim should be motivated to support that effort. The בני תורה have access to the ראשי ישיבה all day every day in the בתי מדרש, but on this night, the ראשי ישיבה sit with the gvirim and discuss ways that they can support the בני תורה. It's not so hard to understand and every yungerman gets it too. They're grateful for the fact that the R"Y work so hard to enlist the support of the gvirim so that they can sit and learn.
None of this is hard. It just requires setting aside the bitterness.
Who is kidding .Ask whose kids are now flaunting the event to others? Hint: G
Deletewhy is "attitude" in quotation marks? are you saying that it is not a real attitude?
ReplyDeleteNobody is bitter. The yungeleit and the yeshiva bochurim see it and are nauseated too. Not sure which rock your head is buried under but most yungeleit have nothing to do with the ry. I’m also not sure why it’s hard for you to understand what I clearly stated that they should have fancy events for the gevirim but this is not the time for it.
ReplyDeleteDid you read what you wrote immediately after the words, "nobody is bitter"?
DeleteDo you not see your own words? And you claim that no one is bitter? Can you think of a better word than bitter? I know you tried to substitute it with nauseated but they're identical in this regard.
The point is not whether the yungerleit have a shaychus with the RY. The point is that it's perfectly ok for the RY to spend some time with the gvirim who sustain the yeshiva and it doesn't diminish from the time the yungerleit have as one of the commenters above claimed.
If this isn't the time for them to spend with the gvirim, pray tell, when is the right time? When the yungerleit are not present and the effect is greatly diminished? You're clearly not involved in fundraising and your opinion displays that.
Bitter is the nicest word to describe your attitude. There are plenty of others, but let's stay positive and stick with bitter. Sheesh.
They are fully entitled to be bitter.
ReplyDeleteThey have been cheated & stolen from their blood inheritance
You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but then don't claim not to be bitter. They're bitter. And remain so. And they'll reap the fruits of their bitterness sadly.
DeleteTragic.
Mr fundraiser adirei hatorah who is busy writing comments on hv on the treif internet. Why are you attacking someone who made a valid point? Why the name calling? I wonder if you live in wg where there were those that couldn’t argue substance so they resorted to name calling and it got pretty nasty.
ReplyDeleteI don't work for Adirei Torah.
DeleteI don't live in Westgate either.
I also didn't attack anyone.
I simply pointed out that the commenter is very bitter. That's not an attack, but a statement of fact.
And I also pointed out that wallowing in bitterness and blaming everyone else for your issues will not prove to be a winning strategy. It's a very sad and unhappy way to live life. And it affects everyone around you including your spouse and your children.
That's it. Sorry if it's harsh. The truth isn't gentle. But it is worth paying attention to.
DeleteAll other ways have been tried.They, besides for the flashy cosmetics, in the long term are just as ineffective.