An Ad published recently in some weekly newspapers regarding Lace Front or Lace Cap Wigs and sheitels signed by chasidisha rabbonim, that it is assur to wear it and therefore you can not say a davar shebekdusha in front of someone wearing it. Lakewood poskim issued a similar psak 2 years ago
There are those that were always against Sheitels, but couldn't push their position as it was generally accepted by most poskim that sheitels are permitted. I think that probably those that signed against these new sheitels are from the same group and are finding a new avenue to push their objectives.
ReplyDeleteThose people are עזי פנים, making a whole מערכה against the Rema, the Gra and many other גדולי הפוסקים אשר מפיהם אנו חיים.
DeleteWe should not allow their ads into our houses.
what shaychus? the lakewood rabbonim signed on the same point.
DeleteYou are wrong, but like everything else anti chasidish, you don't bother checking the facts. Sheitels that are permitted need to look like sheitels. There is no one who says otherwise.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteA bunch of chasidishe poskim ban a sheitel and they couldn't get one litvishe posek. Sounds like a farce to me.
ReplyDeleteAnd what's this thing with being ossur to say דבר שבקדושה, it's not a tefach?
THAT PROVES NOTHING. THE FELLOW WHO BOTHERED TO GO AROUND AND GET THE SIGNATURES SIMPLY WENT TO THOSE WHICH HE CONNECTED TO, THAT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS
DeleteThe litvish poskim in lakewood and Monsey assured it. This kol kore is from Brooklyn
DeletePATENTLY FALSE! THE GREAT RAV FALK ZT"L OF GATESHEAD WAS VEHEMENTLY AND UNCOMPROMISINGLY AGAINST THESE SHAITELS
ReplyDeleteבספרו לבושה של תורה פרק כ"ח (ס"ד) ז"ל ואחרי שנתגלה לנו כל זאת בואו ונצווח על הקלקול שעשו מייצרי השייטעל בימינו שעשו תחבולות שלעין הרואה תהא הפאה נכרית נראית כאילו רואין בו לובן בשר ראשה יחד עם השערות. דהיינו או שעושין שביל לבן בחזית השייטעל או שכל הבד שתחת השערות כולו לבן, ועי"ז כל היכן שנפתח השייטעל נדמה לעין הרואה שראה לובן עור ראשה וכמו בשערותיה ממש. ומדברי השלטי גיבורים מבואר שיש בזה עקירת דין תורה ממש וכו', והוא רחום יכפר עון עכלה"ק
Deleteועוד כתב שם אח"ז (ס"ה סוד"ה ואין) וז"ל ונמצא לפ"ז שאין מקום להקל מחמת מה שנתפשט צרה זו בקרב המחנה עכלה"ק
ועוד שם (סוף ס"ו) וז"ל והוספה זו הנני כותבו כמה שנים אחר כתיבת עיקר הסימן. ואגב אשיחה צערי שלאחרונה התחיל נגע חדש והוא פיאות חומות עם שערות קטנות ששוכבות על המצח שהן מצבע חום יותר בהיר משאר הפיאה ולכן נדמה לעיין הרואה שהן שערות האשה עצמה שהניחה אותן לבצבץ על מצחה. וכדי בזיון וקצף על חורבן הקודש והמקדש - לבזות מצוה ה' באופן כזה וכו' עכלה"ק
סוף דבר הרוצה יעיי"ש כל הסימן ולא רציתי להאריך כאן בראיותיו שהם דברי תורה פן יכנס לבית הכסא
The great Rav Falk was also a great machmir, R' Moshe in אג"מ אה"ע ב,יב is pretty clear that even if the sheitel is natural looking it's OK, as long as at a close look it's noticeable that it's a sheitel. והרואים אותה בקרוב ומסתכלין הרי ברוב הפעמים יכירו שהיא פאה נכרית.
DeleteR' Moshe also writes in the tshuva that it's not right to hoist your chumros on other people.
If someone has a link to the kol koreh signed by Lakewood poskim about lace front sheitels, please post it
Rav Falk זצ"ל explains there that R' Moshe זצ"ל does not mean what you write בשמו
Deleteso it seems to me to be a מחלוקת between JB and Rav Falk זצ"ל as to the true פשט בכוונת האגרות משה
Its the same people that are anti Toeivah. Why can't they just live and let live?
ReplyDeleteOnly a pernicious sicko will make some connection
Deletesorry to inform your ilk but your Bible is Toevah
more than it's against almost anything else including murder see for example commentaries end of Acharei Mos
hate to break it to you
Delete"Live and Let Live "is anti-biblical conception
Dare for you to find a shred of that anywhere and this was readily understood by everyone to stoop to such concepts
all our society is a disaster because of that
you just are a narcissistic so unconcerned anyone but your selfishness even if it brings down perverted destruction on others
Go and take that concept of "Live and Let Live" to the nth degree anywhere that followed it has dissolved into a mess
oh by the way the American Confederacy was also based on Live and Let Live
how well did that work
Are you an anti vaxxer
also essentially the same position
For all who are nostalgic for the relative "normal" of years past
DeleteWho brought us to where we are ? Those who claimed & feign "Live & Let Live"
What of "Die and Let Die"
"Let Live"For what? What Purpose? how about jumping off?! others too?
Anonymous 2:57 PM:
Deletewell put,
i'm afraid that poor mr coheny having latched on to your bait
seems not to have gotten the irony of your remarks
The benefit of the doubt is nice but doubt he deserves it
DeleteThese lace sheitals brought out a tremendous achdus amongst the rabbanim as you will find it very difficult to find one that says these are ok for a frum women to wear . If u can't tell its a sheital then its not a sheital and not only that u can't make a bracha or bentch in front of a women that wears one .
ReplyDeleteWhy cant you make a bracha or bentch in front of a woman wearing one?
DeleteIt may not be permitted to wear, but l'maaseh the hair is covered.
It might be a chiddush but The daas Torah assurs saying a davar shebikdusha according to the poskim that assur shaitels
DeleteSo a new takana, not based on shulchan aruch? Just want to be clear. You need very big people signing to make such a takana stick.
DeleteActually I’m pretty sure even the Anshei Kneses Hagdolah needed the tzibbur to be mekabel a new takana
DeleteR Moshes teshuva is very clear lace no lace makes no difference its not a problem. He makes it very clear , i would advise anyone to read it for themselves
ReplyDeleteINCORRECT!
Deleteעי' בס' לבושה של תורה להגאון וצדיק ומומחה לרבים באותו ענין מוהר"ר אליהו פאלק זצ"ל בעל מחזה אליהו וכו' סימן כ"ח ס"ג שהאריך להוכיח שגם מדברי אותה תשובה עצמה מוכח שאין כן דעתו כלל ועיקר
ועיין שם בכל הסימן בלבושה של תורה
In all honesty in person most of these wigs don't look all that natural. Maybe the full lace tops sometimes do but in general the rest of the hair still looks very shaitely and even the part is not all that natural. The Instagram pix are not real life- lol taken from a women who's been there done that! I'm not commenting about if I feel.iys correct or not but I just wanted to put out there that many are not as natural as people scream about! (Maybe if u pay 5000)
ReplyDeleteR Neiman from Monsey (author of sforim on Yichud, 9-5) a well respected chasidishe posek can be heard on torahanytime # 918 shiur 4313 says it's absolutely muttar l'chtchila and those who say Meron and other tragedies happen because of it are Morah Sheloi k'halacha
ReplyDeleteCan you post a link?
DeleteI can't find it.
Thanks.
Not that there’s anybody in the world that can tell us Hashems cheshbonos, but it doesn’t make any sense that 45 kedoshim would be punished because of a couple of ladies in Lakewood wearing a shaitel that doesn’t conform to the psak of some heintige rabbonim....
DeleteHe never ever says there that it’s permissible. All he says is that- that’s not the reason for the tragedy.
DeleteDoes anyone have a link/image of the Lakewood letter?
ReplyDeletei have it, but i don't know how to make a link. i got if by email
DeleteLet's say this is a breach of tzniyus and even a breach of Das yehudis, can anyone explain how it gets a din of Ervah that would make it asur to say a bracha in a room where a lady was wearing a lace top sheitel?
ReplyDeleteדעת תורה להגאון מהרש"ם
DeleteWhere?
DeleteCan we stop blaming the ladies for all the problems... They support their husbands to learn. Do the men all get along b'achdus? Is there issues that we can be meechazik? We men are all perfect???
ReplyDelete"Do the men all get along b'achdus?"
Deletehuh? can you show please me where it says in the torah to be b'achdus?
"Is there issues that we can be meechazik?"
well he's just given you something excellent to start with! so start now with this and you'll hopefully get perfect later
agreed, not all men are perfect - those who's wives go out with such shaitels are certainly good specimens of men who are not perfect
Deletemost of our ladies are attempting to be perfect - for one they stay far away from avak d'geluy aruyos, and therefore don't wear these prituzsdik'a shaitels
It’s pashut that it’s assur. The lace is transparent, you may as well not be wearing a shaitel.
ReplyDeleteIts very clearly written in Mishne Berura that in places that one wears sheitels one can wear a sheitel that in places where one doesnt wear would be considered maris hoayin. Im not commenting on whether one should opr shouldnt wear these sheitels as i dont really know either what they are or the exact halchic definitions but that point is very clear in mishne berura
ReplyDeleteבלבושה של תורה כתב שההיתר לחבוש פאה נכרית הוא משום שהואיל ונתפשט לבישת פאה נכרית בעולם, ע"כ אין בזה משום מראית עין, שהכל יודעים שיתכן שהיא לובשת פאה נכרית
ReplyDeleteולפ"ז גם הפאות של היום, דהואיל ונתפשט מאד לבישתם, אין בזה משום מראית עין.
According to Rav Falk of Gateshead, the lacetop sheitels should be muttar just like other sheitels
MIKE already quoted from him earlier saying it's very ossur
DeleteMIKE should have actually read the quote. It is clear from the sevara of Rabbi Falk that the lacetop sheitels should be muttar. Because many women wear them.
Deletehere's a reprint of what MIKE quoted so you can reread or do some chazoro:
Deleteועוד כתב שם אח"ז (ס"ה סוד"ה ואין) וז"ל ונמצא לפ"ז שאין מקום להקל מחמת מה שנתפשט צרה זו בקרב המחנה עכלה"ק
I personally don't understand the whole tumult. Maybe I don't know enough about the facts.
ReplyDeleteHair is a part of the body that needs to be covered, it is private, for the person only, not the public. Uncovering it is a pritzus. This has nothing to do with looking nice, attracting attention, misleading men, or any other issue. This is pritzus, just like talking about your private business in public is pritzus. Nobody else should be allowed to be involved in what is your private matter.
If that hair isn't visible, she did not allow the outside world a view of her private hair, then what should be the issur? Who told them that 'looking like hair' is a problem?
This whole matter sounds like the sevara of people who don't understand סברות התורה, people who aren't lamdanim
says it's usor הג"ר פסח אליהו פאלק זצ"ל בס' לבושה של תורה פרק כ"ח
Deletelook it up he explains it very well
I looked it up, and he does not explain it at all. He is basing his entire thesis on the idea that tznius is about men's thoughts. It is not, and he never even tried to prove that basis. Tznius is a midah of a person, to keep his private things private. That includes private parts of the body, a person's life and his psyche. It is the natural distance a person keeps between him/herself and others, to stay pure and holy.
DeleteHair is private, as the Torah tells us. She may not show her hair to others. That's all
I only wear lace tops when my husband comes home with his friends after biking and they are wearing their bike for chai pants.
ReplyDeleteI also wear it when they have a bbq and sit in the hot tub in the back yard smoking hookah.
I also wear it when they come into my house after davening on Shabbos and have a Kiddush with unlimited drinking leaving the house to go back to theirs super recharged Bh with a tremendous amount of alcohol.
I also only wear it when my husband and his friends go to conferences for a couple of days in the gambling Mecca’s in the world.
I also wear it when my husband goes to the parlor meetings to give tzedakah only after he is wined and dined to the 9’s and come home with a dozen cigars freshly rolled.
I also only wear it so I can feel good about myself and I can continue doing my role in the Yiddish home and raising my kids in a toradike derech like the yeshivas request.
Time to start focusing on the Mens tznius issues in this communities and leave us alone.
Tznius is not only about dress.
Well put
DeleteEnjoyed your response
Delete"Time to start focusing on the Mens tznius issues in this communities" overdue and fully agree. Lakewood is worse than most frum communities
Good response but the 2 are apples and oranges. Men living it up on high lakewood gashmiyus is a lack of קדושים תהיו and is a issue worth focusing but Lace shaitel the rabbonim feel is דאורייתא
DeleteIf he's By Ecap you wear a Lace Cap
DeleteRabbonim cant "feel something" is an issur deoraysa. What passuk covers this? If it is rabbonim making a din Deoraysa b'toras lo sasur, then they can do that for breaches of kedoshim tihyu just as much as lace top sheitels.
DeleteSeems like you have a lot of pent up anger regarding your husband. Maybe you should be discussing it with him as opposed to posting on a blog.
DeleteI fail to understand - Just because your "husband" is a mechalel shabbos does that mean that you are allowed to eat pork???
Deletethere are issues on all sides - this one is addressing a shaitel issue - articles have been written about drinking in our community and some of the "over the top" gashmiyus going on as well. In order for us to become better Jews all issues need to be addressed and we need to work on each one individually - its not a game of I'll fix mine if you fix yours.
THE GREAT RAV FALK ZT"L OF GATESHEAD WAS VEHEMENTLY AND UNCOMPROMISINGLY AGAINST THESE SHAITELS.
ReplyDeleteSo what? Considered an authority especially not in the North America
Delete?
quoting rabbi falk MIKE must not have realized that he's addressing a MO crowd here
DeleteRabbi Falk is not מרא דאתרא in Lakewood. Neither was he מרא דאתרא in Gateshead. He was the teacher in the seminary, and he said a Halacha Shiur in Gateshead Yeshiva. The idea that his own personal sevaros are binding on everybody in the world is laughable.
DeleteHe fails to prove his point, and Reb Moshe makes a better point than he can refute or re-explain.
It is clear that the lace front sheitels are in fact muttar, and no amount of קול קוראs can change that. If someone thinks differently, he can write a Teshuva and the Bnei Torah will evaluate that. If someone feels differently, he can bleat, scream and threaten about it. But his feelings are meaningless in Torah
as someone who is currently stuck in Europe I can vouch that Rabbi Falk was considered the greatest Posek on this continent, hands down. of course Europe is not America. I understand that better than most American's who are constantly running to Israel for what is really to be found in America.
DeleteIn fact many times I had the zechus of being sent by some of the greatest and famous poskim to consult with Rabbi Falk [I'm lucky to have the zechus of licking the toes of some of America's greatest world renown elderly poskim]
generally speaking In inyoni tzinous, I'm unaware of anyone of high stature who held Rabbi Falk was a machmir. if you know someone greater then yourself who held so then pls pls post a name or two
As someone who grew up in Europe, I can vouch categorically that most Rabbonim in Europe did not follow or care for Rav Falk's Pesakim. He taught the ladies, but Rav Padwa, Reb Bezalel Rakow, Rav Schneebalg, Reb Osher Westheim, Reb Chaim Feldman, and להבחל"ח Reb Chanoch Ehrentreu, Reb Pinchos Roberts and the whole older generation of Poskim and Rabbonim did not take his pessakim, chumros and ideas seriously. Regarding bugs, Hilchos Shabbos and Tznius.
DeleteHe was considered a מו"צ for the Yeshiva and for the girls, not an international Possek. And his halachos of Tznius were not accepted in most places. When he 'assered' the white parting in the sheitels, even in Gateshead they were worn. His 'four inches' is accepted just for schools to make takanos, not for anything serious.
And so on.
There are people who constantly try and force his opinion on others, but they were never successful. Klal Yisroel ken shmekkn.
He was a great person, someone who learned and knew a lot. But his original mahalach in psak was never accepted.
i sorry but i don't recognize many of the names of the rabbonim you mention. the one's i do recognize, rabbi padwa and rabbi rakow, were of nifter 20 odd years ago when rabbi falk was then only in his 50's. i'm not saying that the other one's which you mention aren't great, only that from the fact that as an american living in Europe for some time now, and having heard of rabbi falk and not the others, i think we can safely assume that the local rabbonim you grew up knowing we're replaced by him in later years after they died, or we're superseded by him in later years, certainly on the international level
DeleteI don't believe that you live in Europe if you don't recognize those names. In England, these were the Rabbonim.
DeleteIt is possible that a new generation of yungeleit אפרוחים שלא נפקחו עיניהם who learn Halacha from פסקי תשובות saw him as their authority. But they are not paskening any shaalos, they are merely quoting Mishna Berura with Dirshu additions. The Rabbonim who actually pasken cared a lot for the opinions of some people, but not Rabbi Falk's. He had a unique approach to many things that were not accepted.
This isn't a bizayon of him. His uniqueness made him like that.
I just find it very funny that the people who didn't daven with minyan because they are following the poskim now dont ....
ReplyDeleteSo you wear it ALL the time is what your saying....
ReplyDeleteR' Neiman says it's whoever created the issur is megaleh ponim b'halaocho and osid liten es hadin
ReplyDeleteCan you upload the teshuva? makes so much sense,
Deleteor email it to me?
Sometime Rabbi Falk sefer causes sholom bayis issues and a competent Rav should be consulted. We dont paskin from a "sefer" there are many different shitos on all these matters. Sometime going lechumro on all 'tznius' issues is not prudent....
ReplyDeleteEnough with the blaming the women. The churban occurred because of lack of shalom. Men have a lot to work on.
If one shaves their head then its all OK since no hair can be seen at any time.
ReplyDeleteHasidic2 may 13th
ReplyDeleteדי מה שאסרה לך התורה
ReplyDeleteRabbi Falk Was considered to be a posek. Interesting.Since when?
ReplyDeleteby whom?
since 1978 when he first published מחזה אליהו ח"א at the age of 35
Deleteגדול הדור מוהר"ר משה פיינשטיין זצ"ל כתב בהסכמתו בתוך שאר דברי שבחו
וז"ל המחבר הוא גדול בתורה וראוי מאוד להתחשב בדבריו כחכם שהורה עכ"ל
I hope that helps,
if not then there are other beautiful הסכמות there from reb shlomo zalmon and reb wosner and others, written on a 35 year old that wouldn't embarrass the greatest פוסקים alive today
his masterpiece עוז והדר לבושה in particular also has the הסכמה of:
Deleteרבי העניך פאדווא אב"ד לאנדאן
רבי חיים פינחס שיינברג זצ"ל
רבי שמואל בירנבוים זצ"ל
רבי בצלאל ראקאוו זצ"ל אב"ד גייטסהעד
רבי משה שטרנבוך שליט"א
רבי אהרן משה שכטר שליט"א
רבי מתתיהו סלומון שליט"א
ועוד
How closely related are you
DeleteNice try though
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletesorry i didn't get you on that.
Deletebut in answer to your Q; I'm neither a relative nor a talmid. although having looked into him now i wish i was/had been
did you, cohen Y, really not realize he was such a bigwig? anyways, no reason to wig out just cause he had occasion to wig you
DeleteSorry to have to be the one to inform you but that is incorrect
Deleteunless referring to for gateshead sem
when were you born?
Many of us could help arrange Haskamos would that be too difficult for you to do
DeleteIf that is Takka your husband I takka feel bad for you and you should get him help quick!
ReplyDeleteThe commentator just meant to say that the zolel vesoivei and redifa achar hamosros by the men are more assur than a laced topped sheitel
DeleteThe rabbonim didn’t quote a single sif in Shulchan Aruch to back themselves up
This would have been helpful for those of us who have gone through the yeshiva system and are taught that asking why is not trief
Agreed that it might be enhanced tzniyis to avoid these but to draw another fake line in the sand does not seem make anyone frummer
Let’s remember that the first cheit was caused by forgetting what’s a mishmeres and what’s ikar hadin
Once we blur the lines we mess everything up
I couldn't agree more with Anonymous 12:59 PM. Well put!
ReplyDeleteI’m not sure what the shaila is. If the part is transparent it’s assur end of story.
ReplyDeleteBecause you are not seeing hair just scalp .
DeleteIf they want to prove scalp beIsha Erva it would do them well to show us the way .
Again i am not endorsing I am just saying let`s separate ikar hadin from mishmeres lakodesh
Otherwise we end up with another Eitz HaDaas