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Sunday, May 30, 2021
Lace psak by Lakewood Poskim
New updated letter on Lace front Sheitels signed by the Lakewood poskim with chizuk from the Roshei Yeshiva. The psak reads that Lace top/Cap even when lined and lave front Sheitels are assur to be worn sold or manufactured
This is an anonymous speaker who doesn't say anything except that 1 hour a week some anonymous phone number will take calls and another number at another hour in the week. The voice sounds like Esti Halberstadt
Link to reb moshes teshuva its pretty clear that there is no issur because its covered , the question would only be maris ayin which is also clear that there was no such takana of maris ayin ever out in place .
I think the deeper question is about being considered covered the new rabbonim philosophy is if you cant tell its covered its not called covered . And r moshe says 📔 is covered as long as its not the real hear it's covered has nothing to do with what people think. I wonder if this has something to do with the attitude of our day where we worship what othe people think vs lower east side where everyone minding theor own business not worshipping what people think of them
i think we should start making all te women and girls stay home and not allowed on the street. the posuk says befeirush that kol keudo bas melech penima. the streets these days are filled with enticing women and girls and it makes it impossible for a ben torah to stay bikdushoso!!!! gevalt! Rechovoseinu einom hefker!!
For better or for worse many Lakewood poskim are telling ppl that min hadin it’s not a problem but if the local big poskim are saying assur they won’t publicly disagree
The more I look into this halacha, the clearer it is that it is muttar.
Remember, the באר שבע argues with the Rema, and he says it is Assur to wear a sheitel. Do you know why he says so? It is important, because when we know why he assered it, we know on which sevara the Rema argued. He writes clearly that the Issur is מראית עין!!! And the Rema disagrees with that! Meaning that the Rema believes that מראית עין does not apply over here!
But Anon 3:16 is making a very cogent argument Please explain how rabonim can allow regular sheitlach that were assured by many achronim but assur others Again if this is some sort of mishmeres than please let us all know
Real Poskim presumably excludes Reb Moshe Feinstein. And his son Reb Dovid. How about Reb Dovid Kohn? He is included in 'real poskim'? And Reb Shlomo Miller?
The Rema is mattir, and you can look at the Magen Avraham for more info.
im a layman but its obvious that a married woman (or at least the ones in lkwd)covers her hair that being said isnt it ossur according to anyone and everyone to look and stare at any woman especially married woman so what diff does it make if its this shaitel or that shaitel let them wear what ever and vayter gegangin their are more important issues as shiduchim for our daughters,otd kids,chinuch issues, not enough schools why do we choose to make a big deal when it comes to woman issues??? when their are so many at least just as important issues that no one is coming out with signs and kol koras am i missing something here?
לשיטת השלטי גיבורים הוי פאה נכרית כגופה אבל מותר מפני שרק מחוברת לבשרה "ונראית השער עם הבשר" אסור. ולפ"ז יש מקום לומר שכשיש משהו שדומה לבשר גם לפי שיטת השלטי גיבורים אסור כיון שגם שער הוי כגופה עיי"ש היטב ודו"ק.
משמעות הדברים היא שההיתר אינו משום שאין השער מחובר דלמאי נ"מ כיון דהוי כגופה עיי"ש רק משום דלא הוי ערוה אלא כשנראית עם הבשר. וממילא יש מקום לומר שכשיש משהו שנראית כבשר הוא אסור כיון דכל האיסור הוא משום פריצות ומאי נ"מ אם הוא בשרה או שנראית כבשרה וגם י"ל דהוי כגופה כמו פאה נכרית.
I wonder if part of the reason to put out a Kol Koreh is based on the understanding that a lack of Tznius brings tzoros and therefore the more machmir the better. I don't think there are any proofs from shas or shulchan aruch that tznius is number 1 issue ...
Look in Ramban sefer hamitzvos shikchas lavin 11 from Sifri ושב מאחריך is going on 3 Aveiros not tznius . Are there any rishonim that argue ? Also its only in WAR . If someone could ask a poisek and quote his answer would be helpful .
No rov will tell you it’s muttar. It’s pashut that it’s assur. There is no tzad heter.
ReplyDeleteCheck out Rav Aryeh lebowitz’s Halacha analysis called “erase the lace”. He explains very clearly that there’s a tzad heter.
DeletePlease explain what is the issur?
DeleteWhy is it pashut? Isn't her hair covered?
ReplyDeleteIs that the only criteria, or it needs to be readily apparent that it's covered?
DeleteTry calling the number on bottom of the letter....
ReplyDeleteI spoke to Rav shmuel Kaminetzky who said that it may be inappropriate but he won’t say it’s assur.
ReplyDeleteRav shlomo Miller said the same.
The correct phone number for questions is 732-806-0630
ReplyDeleteThat’s the oldest trick in the book. Putting the wrong phone number. 😅😅
DeleteThis is an anonymous speaker who doesn't say anything except that 1 hour a week some anonymous phone number will take calls and another number at another hour in the week. The voice sounds like Esti Halberstadt
DeleteR' Neiman from Monsey says those who assur are sh'loI k'halacha
ReplyDeletelink to psak of Rav Neiman from Monsey
Deletehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1tEhIdfXQ6pGqBUoeqDfeamBxiiZ04E45/view?usp=sharing
The psak you link to has nothing to do with this issue. please post the correct psak
DeleteEither wrong R' Neiman or wrong psak. Or both.
DeleteSO what did R Neiman say? Because according to the link he assur's human hair shaitel
DeleteThat is the father of the Reb Shmuel Neiman
Deletehttp://www.fridmanbooks.co.il/ProductInfo.asp?ProdId=911&catId=446
ReplyDeleteLink to reb moshes teshuva its pretty clear that there is no issur because its covered , the question would only be maris ayin which is also clear that there was no such takana of maris ayin ever out in place .
I think the deeper question is about being considered covered the new rabbonim philosophy is if you cant tell its covered its not called covered . And r moshe says 📔 is covered as long as its not the real hear it's covered has nothing to do with what people think. I wonder if this has something to do with the attitude of our day where we worship what othe people think vs lower east side where everyone minding theor own business not worshipping what people think of them
i think we should start making all te women and girls stay home and not allowed on the street. the posuk says befeirush that kol keudo bas melech penima. the streets these days are filled with enticing women and girls and it makes it impossible for a ben torah to stay bikdushoso!!!! gevalt! Rechovoseinu einom hefker!!
ReplyDeleteFor better or for worse many Lakewood poskim are telling ppl that min hadin it’s not a problem but if the local big poskim are saying assur they won’t publicly disagree
ReplyDeleteThe more I look into this halacha, the clearer it is that it is muttar.
ReplyDeleteRemember, the באר שבע argues with the Rema, and he says it is Assur to wear a sheitel. Do you know why he says so? It is important, because when we know why he assered it, we know on which sevara the Rema argued.
He writes clearly that the Issur is מראית עין!!!
And the Rema disagrees with that! Meaning that the Rema believes that מראית עין does not apply over here!
These anti-lacetop signs, are anti-Rema signs!
That is fake news! All lakewood poskim and really all real poskim everywhere agree that it's assur.
ReplyDeleteBut Anon 3:16 is making a very cogent argument
DeletePlease explain how rabonim can allow regular sheitlach that were assured by many achronim but assur others
Again if this is some sort of mishmeres than please let us all know
Real Poskim presumably excludes Reb Moshe Feinstein. And his son Reb Dovid. How about Reb Dovid Kohn? He is included in 'real poskim'? And Reb Shlomo Miller?
DeleteThe Rema is mattir, and you can look at the Magen Avraham for more info.
Rabosai, it is muttar, don't get fooled.
im a layman but its obvious that a married woman (or at least the ones in lkwd)covers her hair that being said isnt it ossur according to anyone and everyone to look and stare at any woman especially married woman so what diff does it make if its this shaitel or that shaitel let them wear what ever and vayter gegangin their are more important issues as shiduchim for our daughters,otd kids,chinuch issues, not enough schools
ReplyDeletewhy do we choose to make a big deal when it comes to woman issues??? when their are so many at least just as important issues that no one is coming out with signs and kol koras
am i missing something here?
ReplyDeleteFor anyone who needs a link to r moshes teshuva
http://www.fridmanbooks.co.il/ProductInfo.asp?ProdId=911&catId=446
לשיטת השלטי גיבורים הוי פאה נכרית כגופה אבל מותר מפני שרק מחוברת לבשרה "ונראית השער עם הבשר" אסור. ולפ"ז יש מקום לומר שכשיש משהו שדומה לבשר גם לפי שיטת השלטי גיבורים אסור כיון שגם שער הוי כגופה עיי"ש היטב ודו"ק.
ReplyDeleteהשייטעל הזה איננו מחובר לראשה, אלא להמטפחת שמתחתה. גם היא נכללת בהיתר הש"ג, ופשוט מאד.
Deleteנראית השער עם הבשר פירושו נראית שערה עם בשרה, לא בשר משהו אחר.
משמעות הדברים היא שההיתר אינו משום שאין השער מחובר דלמאי נ"מ כיון דהוי כגופה עיי"ש רק משום דלא הוי ערוה אלא כשנראית עם הבשר. וממילא יש מקום לומר שכשיש משהו שנראית כבשר הוא אסור כיון דכל האיסור הוא משום פריצות ומאי נ"מ אם הוא בשרה או שנראית כבשרה וגם י"ל דהוי כגופה כמו פאה נכרית.
Deleteאני מבין דהשלטי גיבורים אינו מדבר על לייס טאפ שייטלעך רק כתבתי שלשיטתו אולי אין נ"מ בזה
DeleteI wonder if part of the reason to put out a Kol Koreh is based on the understanding that a lack of Tznius brings tzoros and therefore the more machmir the better. I don't think there are any proofs from shas or shulchan aruch that tznius is number 1 issue ...
ReplyDeleteyeah, only from the passuk of ושב מאחריך
DeleteThe possuk does not say it is the Number 1 issue. Stop believing propaganda
DeleteLook in Ramban sefer hamitzvos shikchas lavin 11 from Sifri ושב מאחריך is going on 3 Aveiros not tznius . Are there any rishonim that argue ? Also its only in WAR . If someone could ask a poisek and quote his answer would be helpful .
ReplyDelete