Weather: 88° Sunshine and clouds mixed. A stray shower or thunderstorm is possible. High 88F.
Shkiah 8:29pm
Fast begins Thursday morning 3:48 AM
- Kreshov Shul in Boro Park has decided to host an extra special vachtnacht tonight more at Faa
-Video below Rav Dov Landau shlita meets with Rav Boruch Mordechai Ezrachi shlita
- Oif Simchas: Chasuna Levy - Irons at Lake Terrace Kabolas ponim 2 pm chupa at 3pm
- Fast of shiva asar B'Tamuz tomorrow will be hi of 86 with 75% Humidity. ips to prepare for the fast according to Rabbi Yechezkel Aschayek author of the sefer חיים בריאים כהלכה. One should start preparation by drinking 50 % more water of his daily intake. Drink before eating and after meals don't drink until the food is digested in order not to dilute the acids that digest the food. The food should be chewed well before swallowing in order for the body to digest it and not have it sit in the stomach
- NYC Declares 18 Yeshivas providing insufficient secular education. Eighteen New York City yeshivas have been deemed to be not providing its students a legally mandated secular education, a ruling that could potentially force thousands of parents who send their children to those schools to arrange supplemental lessons. The other seven of the 25 schools investigated were deemed compliant.
- There's a kosher food truck at the woodbury commons mall under the a hashgacha of the vaad hakashrus of Kirys Yoel for those shopping at the outlets the truck is parked in front of the Levis store.
- Spinka Rebbe has B"H been released from the hospital following a complicated surgery please continue to daven for נפתלי צבי בן פערל
- Update on Eiseman trial as prosecutors appeal case to NJ supreme court. The defense team now has 10 days to respond to the prosecution’s motion, and to argue with the case does not warrant review from the New Jersey Supreme Court. Please continue to daven for Osher ben Chana Frumet. more at Matzav
- Brisk R"Y RAvrohom Yehoshua Soloveitchik weighed in on the movement to change the Yeshiva system and have boxhurim begin shidduchim earlier to lower the age gap at the weekly Chumash shiur. He suggested having the girls start a year later he compared it to a shirt that is buttoned the wrong way you can either cut off the extra button or button it correctly. If there's an existing system you don't change it by cutting it off.
- R' Aaron Lang: We want three people for BOE that studied political science or public administration in school, or have experience in government or other large organizations. District's a $400M corporation. It's a historic time. Future of Lakewood & cities w/majority nonpublic kids will be made We started forming a group to recruit candidates. Whether Lakewood survives as a prosperous home to the multitude or crushed under the burden of debt will be decided in the next few years. The center of gravity will be the BOE and we need members friendly to the kids and people.
- Shatnez Alert: Can a טלית be shatnez?
A Mefoar Atorah see below that contains a mixture of linen in its inner cords, which is obviously a concern of shatnez when attached to a טלית which is of wool. In addition to the prohibition of shatnez, wearing a טלית that contains שעטנז on שבת, may be a question of הוצאה on שבת as shown below from the פרי מגדים in סימן י"ג, and may be a question of making a ברכה לבטלה.
Vaad L'Mishmeres Shatnez, 64 Aspen Court, Lakewood,NJ
Video: Rav Ezrachi Rav Landau
Shatner in Atara of Talis Mefoar
I was very distressed seeing the back and forth here the other day regarding the shidduch crisis. The harsh tone from both sides of the debate is very disturbing and bothersome. However, I must differentiate between the two. The harsh tone of the proponents of dealing with age gap (in whatever way, boys younger, girls older or both) is coming from seeing the pain of thousands of our girls both today and in the future and believing that this is the solution. They are not crazy because the numbers seem to indicate this way and many of our foremost gedolim agree that this is the main problem. These people are seeing, and many of them are experiencing firsthand, a clear and definite problem and they strongly believe that they have the solution, hence the understandable although not excusable passion.
ReplyDeleteWhat I cannot understand is the passion of the people on the other side of the debate. Some seem to deny that a crisis exists. I am not sure where these people live or what community they part of, but I do not believe that they live in the same Lakewood that I live in and if they do they need to tune in a little and have an honest conversation with their friends and neighbors and they will hear the real story. They will hear about great girls from great families waiting for years for a simple yes, for a date, from a boy etc. They will hear about a huge number of older girls that feel totally forgotten for no reason other than, seemingly, supply and demand.
Then there are those who somehow are a million percent convinced that the age gap is not the cause. They are so convinced of this that they are always passionately commenting and fighting for their cause and heaping scorn on anyone who believes the crazy age gap conspiracy theory. To these people I humbly want to pose two questions; Firstly, how are you so sure of your opinion that you are willing to take the full achrayus to fight for your cause? Additionally, what is driving you? Where is the passion coming from? Why do you care so much about this and are you really sure that your passion is coming from a good place?
One last request: If for whatever reason you decide to continue commenting I plead with you to always keep in mind that your comments are being read by thousands of girls, their parents, grandparents, siblings and friends, all who are experiencing excruciating pain from this situation, so please be very sensitive in both the wording and content of your comments.
Thank you so much
A very one sided letter.
DeleteAgain what have you done to help
Did you pick up a phone and redd a shidduch?
Did you go to a wedding or BMG and look for nice boys that you can redd to others?
The age gap issue has been preached for 20 years now but no major changes were done. Meanwhile when all the focus is on age gap all other potential fixes or help get ignored or discouraged. That is why people are of a different opinion when you turn the shidduch crisis into an all or nothing campaign and attacked the Yeshiva system and bochurim for 20 years straight.
You seem to be of the opinion that the age gap is the only viable option, and anyone who denies that really doesn't care about those suffering.
DeleteWhy?
If the age gap is a myth, those promoting it are the ones who don't care about the suffering.
Or not. Perhaps both care about the suffering of those girls and women, and have different approaches. Why are you attempting to stifle one opinion from being expressed?
Thank you. Very well said.
DeleteSomewhat unrelated I would like to add my own two cents to those commenting. There are two reasons to argue against the freezer and for getting married earlier. One is due to the age gap theory and the shidduch crisis, the other is for halacha/hirur reasons. These two issues have no bearing on one another.
When expressing your opinion please bear that in mind and debate one or the other or both. Swerving from one to the other and quoting gedolim who were commenting on one of those issues as "proof" for a different reason severely cripples your argument. A vast majority of the comments I read the past week or so have obviously been missing this point.
The passion is simple, taking away a year of yeshiva from bochurim is a sea change in the level of learning for this and the coming generations.
DeleteOnly a consensus of the gedolei hador have the pleitzos to make such a decision. Certainly not baalei batim, no matter how pained they are or how real the problem is.
The gedolei hador are very much aware of the shidduch crisis, yet we have not heard anything from them on their own initiative הלא דבר הוא.
If there is an age gap, redding a shidduch wont help the situation at all. You are just helping one lucky girl (and sadly hurting another).
DeleteThe letter writer is questioning how can all these people commenting know for sure that the age gap is a myth so much so that they are willing to fight against any change?
An answer please.
To: Mr. the passion is simple:
DeleteThe oilam today learns bh bhsmada after the chasuna as well. Come to BMG and you will see for yourself. The level of learning will be fine. Dont fool yourself into believing that your passion is coming from your extreme love and concern for the torah and the level being a little weaker (like the Israeli bochurim) even at the expense of our girls being able to get married. Time for a reality check
You are obviously quite unfamiliar with how the yeshiva system works.
DeleteThe years that bochurim spend prior to going to EY are the most formative years of their lives, both in developing a mehalech in learning and in absorbing a love and commitment to torah from their RY.
Once they go to EY, and especially when get BMG, they are on their own. Taking away a year of this yeshiva education on a wholescale level would have tremendous repercussions to the olam hatorah.
You especially, and baalei batim in general, being quite unknowledgable in this area should not be commenting about it
NONE OF YOU UNDERSTAND that it is not typical to marry a woman your own age. Get real! Almost very man wants a younger woman. Forget about changing the yeshiva system. What about changing human nature? What world do you live in? In every culture or every age, men want and marry younger women.
DeleteIt’s called maaminim bashem! That’s the passion
DeleteAnd the girls don’t need you to believe in the age gap. according to your shots it won’t help them, only future generations so you are the cruel insensitive one
DeleteWe need to stop sending bochurim to Brisk. Reb Chaim Brisker would be more comfortable in YU than in Brisk. Brisk is a Yeshiva which is, as an institution, a physical meridah in the Shulchan Aruch, which requires boys to get married at 18.
ReplyDeleteRabbanim in YU don't urge bochurim to delay marriage. To the conrary, I have heard shiurim from YU Roshei Yeshiva encouraging bochurim to get married early.
Did bochurim in volozhin where rav chaim was rosh yeshiva get married at 18?
DeleteEveryone sees and understands the negius involved. No need to harp on it.
DeleteGedolim can have Negius, and still be Gedolim. We don't allow the greatest Gedolim to be on a Bais Din if they have Negius. They can still be Gedolim and we can still follow their opinions on everything else when there is no negius.
Any Gadol who has a Yeshiva, has Negius when it comes to deciding when bochurim should get married. So we need to go to Gedolim who don't have Negius for this specific matter.
Just a few rhetorical questions. Do you by any chance know what age R' Chaim's sons were when they got married? How about the Brisker Rav's?
DeleteFor bonus points what was the age of R' Yoshe Ber (Rosh yeshivas YU) when he got married, and was that before or after he went to college.
How does the brisker RY have negius ? why would he care if the bochurim came to his yeshiva a year or 2 earlier ?
DeleteHilarious
DeleteAll the YU guys hanging out weekly at Mt Sinai or on the West Side are getting married when ?? What are they getting again at 18?
Sure
Oh, & he opposed R Reines place in Lida that had a curriculum that was less secular than YU
Anon 10:09
DeleteNone of your questions are relevant. Of course there is a heter of Talmud Torah. The problem is that the vast majority of bochurim don't fulill the three conditions necessary to have the heter of Talmud Torah. The age that a few yechidim - that did have the heter of Talmud Torah - got married is irrelevant.
Boys in Volozhin got married between the ages of 13 and 20. See, Jewish Marriage and Divorce in Imperial Russia, p. 57
DeleteY COHEN
DeleteNobody is defending YU, and certainly not YU guys. The question is whether, as bad as YU supposedly is, Brisk is worse. In Brisk, they tell bochurim that they shouldn't change a system that is against the Shulchan Aruch. That's a choiti umachti.
Ha! Mussar from a YUnik about anything to do with inyanei ishus is truly comic. Can't make it up
DeleteAs soon as someone starts calling the yeshiva system against the shulchan aurch, you know exactly where they stand.
DeleteIn vilozhin they got married around 18. Generally, they got married early back in those days.
DeleteYu should deal with their lgbt problems
Delete"Ha! Mussar from a YUnik about anything to do with inyanei ishus is truly comic. Can't make it up." - Instead of laughing, please address the issues.
Delete"As soon as someone starts calling the yeshiva system against the shulchan aurch, you know exactly where they stand." - Please take a look at the Shulchan Aruch and tell me how the Yeshiva system doesn't violate the Shulchan Aruch. Remember, we have no problem bashing Chabad.
anyone who knows anything about what is gonig on in yu knows the boys there typically get married much later than bmg boys. there is a much bigger singles crisis in yu than in the yeshiva world. and saying that rav chaim brisker would want guys to go to yu is so laughable it doesnt even deserve a response.
DeleteAre Roster
DeleteProbably the reason he mentioned that part about college
Such a reaction to an obvious troll comment. Even R' Solovachcik did not think YU is consistent with his grandfathers approach or would have had his approval . R' Solovachcik believed he followed his grandfathers derech halimud and approach to halacha. Not his general haskafa. See "The Rav Thinking aloud" for his comments on that
DeleteAnon 11:45: The issue isn't whether YU STUDENTS follow halacha. The issue is whether they are being told to ignore halacha. In Yeshiva, many boys spoke lashon hara. But I can't blame the Yeshiva for that. Once a Yeshiva says "boys are encouraged to speak lashon hara or get married late" it is a Yeshiva which is worse than YU.
DeleteAnon 11:59: I am not defending YU. I am saying Rav Chaim would have felt more comfortable in YU than in Brisk.
Ridiculous.
DeleteWhen the majority act a lifestyle for decades then 'silence is acquiesce'
Besides,
Nobody has problem with a guy getting married at 18
The only issue is whether somebody older who wishes to start dating now all of a sudden should wait a few months ( for his own sake & )to preserve an atmosphere
@Anon 9:52
DeleteIt is very wrong to just assume that gedolei torah have negius. Borders on apikorsus
@anon 1:26
DeleteSaying that Gedolei Torah can't have negius borders on Avodah Zara. Every human being is subject to negius. See, Kiddushin 72a, nineteen lines from the top.
pirya vrivya or marriage?
DeleteWhatever troll started this thread instead of trolling go to YU Torah and put in "age to get married" in the search bar. No, the YU Roshey Yeshiva and Poskim do not think bochurim should get married at eighteen or twenty if they are learning well. They have the same approach to delaying marriage as the BMG Roshey Yeshiva and Poskim.
Delete@Anon 1:18
DeleteTo repeat: I am not defending YU. However, if "waiting a few months" is against halacha, even if their intention is the noble goal to "preserve an atmosphere," it is Reform Judaism. The early reform rabbis also had beards.
@Anon 3:24. I am telling you what I heard with my own ears. I can't vouch for the opinion of every shiur by every Rebbi in the Yeshiva posted on YU Torah. I am curious if you can tell me some quotes from those shiurim. To the extent that they tell bochurim that they should delay marriage, then they are indeed as Reform as Brisk is.
DeleteWhen the age gap theory was first publicized, the Ami Magazine interviewed Reb Eliyahu Levin Shlita.
ReplyDeleteThey asked him about the age gap theory, and he was unsure of it. However, his basic point was that people need to stop living a wholesale life. Right now, society decides when a person is ready to get married, and generally what he should do with his life. When society increases, any small issue is exacerbated and becomes insurmountable. If we only consisted of a few hundred families, the age gap would be a non-issue. Why? Because it would only apply to a small amount of people, and we could find solutions for them. Only now, that everything is done in wholesale fashion, do we find the huge amounts of girls who are unmarried at the age by which they wished to be married.
If we were to stop living this way, and each person would get married according to his or her own wishes, this would not be true.
Some would get married younger, others older, the age would not be the dominant factor.
Of course, it would be even better if Yeshivos were less systematic. If some boys spent two years in twelfth grade, others spent an extra half year in eleventh, and yet others got married before going to Beis Hamedrash, the learning wouldn't suffer. Each person would do as he understood. But people would need to be more in touch with themselves, their needs and their wishes.
Some Mosdos might end up closing down. Those that only exist because 'everyone' goes there. Is that not a good thing?
How come NASI is so unconcerned for full barrels of single american guys floating around Israel,the West Bank,or Uman?
ReplyDelete& Turn them into marriageable material
ReplyDeleteR Elya Ber is the undisputed Gadol and Rosh yeshiva of America and he is the one that should be calling the shots.
ReplyDeleteDavid 1039 AM Do you consider
DeleteR Elya Ber as the undisputed Gadol because he holds like you?
Pretty sure he doesn't believe in shots
DeleteNot undisputed any more.
DeleteI disputed it.
Now talk sechel
Shouldn't he be calling the shots about shots?
DeletePlease give me one quote that you find objectionable from those who don’t see the age gap as the defining issue
ReplyDeleteWhy do you assume that those who do not see the age gap as the issue are uncaring. They care just as much if not more.
it's simple mathematics. If it's too hard to grasp, no shame in grabbing a calculator.
Deletewhy did no one care when the cut off date for boys starting school started getting earlier and earlier? boys today are 6 months older than they used to be when they finish high school, 6 months older when they go to eretz yisroel and 6 months older when they get to bmg because the cut off date was changed from around pesach time to around november. why is no one talking about changing the cut off date for boys back to pesach (while leaving girls in november) as a way to chop 6 months off of the age gap in the future?
ReplyDeleteThe original comment asked how anyone can be 100% sure that the age gap theory is not true, when the numbers seem to indicate that it is, so much so that he is willing to fight against any changes and take achrayus for the disaster to ocntinue and get worse. So far there has been no response to that question
ReplyDeleteAt what risk are you will to test this theory? Ruining thousands of boy's opportunity to possibly become talmide chachomim????
DeleteWe are discussing serious bnei torah who will be learning after their chasuna and iy"h have ample opportunity to become serious talmidei chachomim
DeleteOk so I will. The premise of the age gap theory is that an equal amount of boys and girls are born each year. In actuality that is FALSE. There are actually about 105 boys compared to 100 girls.
DeleteBelieve it or not population growth has always been around. The age gap was was also always around. Actually it was larger. Boys married at 18 girls at 12. There was no problem because therer is no rule that an equal amount of boys and girls are born. (More boys are born!)
So what is the problem? It seems that MANY more boys don't adhere to the Torah path. Take a primary class from 25 years ago how many boys are serious learners. Do the same to the girls if the numbers are off you have your answer.
Now we can still argue that given our failure with some of the boys we must respond by cutting out learning years under the tutelage of rabbeim.
We must acknowledge that it is a dangerous idea.
We run the risk of losing more boys. Just a few reasons off the tops of my head. Boys will be under pressure to get into the next elite yeshiva at an younger age. Will some of these younger boys lack the resilience to keep on this path? In general we will be giving less time for a boy to develop and rebound if ninth or tenth grade did not work out for him.
Also another critical loss would be the boys coming from modern backgrounds. Less time in eretz yisroel means less time to integrate into the yeshiva system. Aside from the tragedy of losing these gems, will we have gained ANYTHING? We will have fewer boys for the girls.
Why don't we focus on the actual problem. Why are we losing more boys than girls. What should the yeshivos and the klal be doing different.
Your first sentence is false so you seemingly are not well versed in the topic. All are aware that there are more boys than girls and that is why no one is claiming that boys should start at 19 and the crisis will be solved even if boys started at 21 because there are more boys than girls.
DeleteWhat you are saying about the premise of the age gap theory is false. Everyone knows that there are more boys than girls so perhaps you need to try your explanation again.
DeletePlease see below: this is from the official shidduch crisis website:
http://www.shidduchcrisis.com/math-explanation.html
In censuses all over the world, it has been observed that there are more boys born each year than there are girls born in that same year.... We therefore now know that what we observe in the general world population, whereby more boys are born every year, also holds true for the Orthodox community. So, we have now established that there are approximately 5% more boys born each year than there are girls born in that same year.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://ourworldindata.org/gender-ratio%23:~:text%3DThe%2520%27natural%27%2520sex%2520ratio%2520at,around%2520103%2520to%2520107%2520boys).&ved=2ahUKEwjSoqr_jvr_AhXgmIkEHU0NA0EQFnoECBEQBA&usg=AOvVaw3V-oBMDmvgsVUI5Fdg6F9N
DeleteOf course we see more single girls than boys. The question is why
DeleteThe age gap theory blames this on the fact that population growth causes more boys than girls. That might mean that other factors are at play.
Study the subject you will see that more boys are born than girls each year.
A simple google search will have you better informed.
Here’s an answer kefirah
DeleteIf typically close to half a primary class needs tutoring, could it be that they're trying to teach children to read a too young an age? So maybe the whole system needs some thought!
ReplyDeleteLowering the age of when boys start will not help the existing issue of an abundance of single girls. I think we need a takanah that all girls under 23 should be kept off the market until the amount of single girls 23 and older gets reduced greatly. After that reduce to age 22... 21... All rabonim and rosh yeshivas should sign on and agree not to be mesader kidushin to a shiduch where the girls are younger than 23 until the age gap goals are met. All wedding halls and hashgachas should be brought on board too.
ReplyDeletei strongly agree. and anyone who disagrees should be villified and called a rasha by anonymous commenters online. after all how can anyone can be 100% sure that this idea won't work that he is willing to fight against this change and take achrayus for the disaster not doing it will make worse?
DeleteYour sarcasm is umwarranted and frankly disgusting
DeleteThere is an issue with an age gap that is seemingly pretty clear based on the numbers and it is endorsed by Rav Elya Ber, Rav Malkiel and many others. It cannot be shoved under the rug any longer and we need our gedolim to do something about it as soon as possible. Whether its the boys getting married younger, the girls older or a little of both, something needs to happen. This is the plea of our precious girls, their parents, grandparents, siblings, neighbors and friends.
If with no proof that the age gap is not an issue you continue to fight changes you are doing a huge avlah according to Rav Elya Ber and many others
i strongly agree. anyone who disagrees with you or expresses any sarcasm is a big rasha and is doing a huge avlah according to many, many others. i strongly support all others and think anyone who disagrees with them is weally, weally bad. this is my plea and the plea of many precious people, their parents, aunts, uncles and neighbors, and also many, many others. if you don't have proof that i and all of the others are wrong and continue to fight my plans to change everything that exists you are hugeley bad! also you are frankly disgusting and unwarranted.
DeleteOnoas Devorim is osur min hatorah even when you are anonymous. Keep that in mind on Yom Kippur and remember that on aveiros shebain odom lchaveiro teshia does not help ad sheyratze. food for thought
DeleteSocial engineering
DeleteThis sound like the social engineering they did in China.
ReplyDeleteGedolim can have Negius, and still be Gedolim. We don't allow the greatest Gedolim to be on a Bais Din if they have Negius. They can still be Gedolim and we can still follow their opinions on everything else when there is no negius.
ReplyDeleteAny Gadol who has a Yeshiva, has Negius when it comes to deciding when bochurim should get married. So we need to go to Gedolim who don't have Negius for this specific matter.
You are so clueless.
DeleteYou are an apikoros as per the chazon ish. See chazon ish emunah ubitachon perek 3, #30. Spill out your wine.
DeleteFast begins
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or at 4:22 AM dawn fixed minutes
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The fast ends no later than the
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One who finds fasting difficult may eat at -
9:09 PM
One who does not find fasting difficult
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מהיכא תיתיFrom my zmanim cut & pasted
For all those worrying about bitul Torah. Today with high salaries and high kollel stipends, you could shteig away after the wedding, for many years, the lazy ones learn the same before and after their weddings
ReplyDeleteHuge stipends? High salaries? Good joke.
Delete60 percent of my grade learnt after their wedding just as shtark as before, the percent that would shteig this extra year is so minimal, there shouldn't be any worry
ReplyDeleteOh, so minimal learning is unimportant.
DeleteNice.
Just curious, did any news sites report what Rav Moshe Hillel told the delegation after all the fanfare leading up to the meeting?
ReplyDelete