How times have changed. A historic letter (Displayed at Ateres Reva hall) written by the Lakewood Mashgiach Harav Nossson Wachtfogel zatzal in 1987. When a pizza shop was opening in Lakewood he called it a Pirtzah and instructs the Bnei yeshiva and their families in the strongest of terms not to go to the establishment or to patronize it in any way.Today Lakewood has more than just a pizza shop.
Sounds extreme today. Was it considered extreme then or conventional wisdom?
ReplyDeleteconventional
DeleteAs an old Lakewooder, who lived here back then, I would say this establishment went against conventional wisdom at the time. We felt we were unique and did not want to be like Brooklyn. (How I miss that mindset!) However, this letter came out after the business had already been built. Some felt it should have been done before all that time and money had already been invested. We all knew the business was planning to open. There was also sympathy for the owner because of the losses he suffered.
DeleteMaybe the fact that it sounds extreme today is exactly due to the breaching of this Pirtza back in 1987. . .
DeleteI'm pretty sure the mashgiach ztzl would have called posting online to a site called hefkervelt no less, a pirtzah.
ReplyDeleteNot sure what is gained by posting this.
Times have changed. When Hatzola opened, the Kotler family was against it too.
ReplyDeleteMuch will be gained.People need & want to get a feel for the old standard.
ReplyDeleteI think the the hisnagdus was mainly against the EAT IN aspect of the restaurant as he had no problem with the mobile pizza truck
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately people also need to eat.
ReplyDeletePeople need also to sleep.So make public sleeping shops?
DeleteToday Lakewood has more gashmiyus than NY. We even have videos promoting and drooling over this nonsense. Nebach! Thank the realtor that brought them all here.
ReplyDeleteThey are still among us.& getting bolder
DeleteThe rest of the story was, the yeshiva pressured the kashrus agencies not to give certification (this was before kcl) but ultimately he got a hechsher, and he held out for approximately 9 months but eventually he didn't have business, and he closed.
ReplyDeleteOur tradition and connection with torah mitzvos and hakodosh boruch hu is not black and white and Its not about right or wrong!
ReplyDeleteSeeing such a letter gives us a perspective how deep we sunk into materiality and got desensitized to ruchniyus and pure torah living!
This only applies to those who follow Rav Aharon and his son.
ReplyDeleteAs per addressee of the letter.
Like I said on yesterday's post, Meat Boards are allowed (not in the pizza store).
Ridiculously overpriced tzefardea, etc donuts are allowed.
(In fact, I couldn't find a regular sufganiah donut this year in the bakery erev Shabbat Chanukah.)
It is the sinat chinam in your response that we are mourning now. There is no them and us. We are one big happy family, if they find it disrespectful, then we all need to take it into consideration.
DeleteSinat chinam may well be to barge in,hold those who held on to the old standard with contempt, flout those standards,& pull everybody down with you
Delete@anonymous 1:40PM, not everyone who wanted to change the old standards "barged in." As a resident of Lakewood for almost 50 years, who misses the old Lakewood very much, i can attest to the fact that many who changed the standards were those who were born here, even born to very simple Yeshivish families. They grew up with the old values, wanted to remain in Lakewood, but also wanted to live a different lifestyle. Not everyone conforms to the lifestyle he or she grew up with. My own children each lead a different lifestyle. Some lead simple lifestyles reminiscent of the old Lakewood, and some do not. Bottom line is that nothing stays the same. Life moves on and nothing stays the same. Even when we recall and miss the past, we can't get stuck in the past either.
DeleteTell us, where was it you/your family have gone wrong?
DeleteAnonymous at 3:22 is absolutely correct. Nothing stays the same, including our ability to remain in our host country. Our history proves that indeed, nothing stays the same.
DeleteThere's a normal cause & effect prior to
Deletethat happening
eg let's stop expanding the building & harassing the goyim,& show them we actually stand for some moral unpc values
Today, Lakewood ALSO has a yeshiva...
ReplyDeleteFYI they had restaurants in Warsaw before the war. True story.
ReplyDeleteNothing surprising about that and nothing to change anyone opinion because of it. If they had restaurants in Kletzk before the war where bochurim hung out it in, that would have a lot more relevance
DeleteHow so? They fell into that place cf.compromise on yotzros
Deletewere other factors as well then
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