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Wednesday, May 14, 2025
Hashkafa Q&A Shidduchim
Hashkafa with Rav Gershon Ribber shlita
Attitude of non-compliant Roshai Yeshiva with HG"R Moshe Hillel's directives
When a Jewish community veers away from Chazal, Hashem arranges for that community to lose membership and influence. This is in order to protect Jews from influenced from false versions of "Judaism." This happened to Tzedukim, Baisusim, Karaim, Shabbateins, Frankists, Reform, Conservative, and even Modern Orthodox, to some extent.
Unfortunately, when the Yeshiva community stopped keeping halacha - specifically the halacha of getting married at 18 - it was putting true true Judaism at risk. People began to believe that this was a legitimate expression of Judaism. Hashem has arranged, therefore, for the Yeshiva world to lose membership and influence, through the shidduch crisis. It will be a slow, but inevitable, process. Chassidim will become the majority of frum Jews within the next few decades, with the Yeshivish becoming a powerless minority. We see it happening in real time. Torah Temimah is now owned by Chassidim. Even Lakewood is now being, slowly but surely becoming Chassidish.
This process is inevitable. No policy of delaying girls or paying shadchanim will help. The only thing that they can do is teshuva. Trying to solve the shidduch crisis, without addressing its ultimate spiritual cause, is as silly as installing a sprinkler system in the Beis Hamikdash hoping that it will prevent it from being burned down.
Rav Chaim Kanievsky didn't give brachos to people who delayed bochurim after 18. This was a way of showing that it is indeed a corrupted form of "Judaism."
1) Chasidim tend to do things their way and are in fact very influential. Us Bnei Torah on the other hand davka try to keep a low profile. They might also be larger in numbers, and this is primarily because after the war all the young orphaned Hungarians etc. were very impressed by many of the Rebbes, who actively worked to bring people into their camp. (Before the war, some of the largest courts known today (i.e. Satmar, Bobov) were in fact very small, and had less than 500 followers). This is not our way. We don't schlep people to our side.
The "Shidduch Crisis" has never been solved for one simple reason. It's because it is not a crisis (at least in the way people describe it). There can only be a solution to a problem if in fact there is a real problem that exists, which is why there has never been a practical solution which ever worked.
Now of course there are many single boys and girls who are suffering, but not for the reasons the Shadchanim claim they are. This "age gap" thing is a scam pushed mainly by the Shadchanim, as a coverup to take blame off themselves for not doing their job properly. This way, they can easily shift the blame from themselves onto "the system", and claim that the way "the system" is designed is fundamentally flawed.
Let's get real: Shadchanim are not all that interested in making Shiduchim. Sure, they "make Shiduchim" but only if they are in the mood to deal with you... They will only look at you if they are slightly impressed by you - sight on scene. Otherwise you can forget it. And if Chas V'Shalom you say it's not for you, they lose interest and treat you differently.
The reality is: 1) Unlike other issues, Shiduchim is different because nobody involved with it is going through what single people go through. They have no idea what it's like and have no qualifications to be telling single people why they are still not married. This applies to Roshei Yeshivos and Shadchanim as well. 2) There are singles - especially girls, who are sitting for years without getting Redt a single name. Sometimes they go out - maybe once a year. If we are being honest, it's not because of some statistic. It's because there is nobody looking out for them. If they get one name every six months they are lucky.
This is the sad reality which is plaguing our communities. It will not get solved by sending guys off to EY earlier or making girls wait longer. While there might be some truth to this, it is not the fundamental issue here. (Data and studies mean NOTHING without proper context. It's like saying data shows Jewish people are wealthy. While that might not necessarily be false, it certainly does not mean that all Jews are wealthy).
I personally heard from the mouth of a "prominent" (very well-known) Shadchan, who openly admitted that "I am lucky if I still remember a boy's name within 24 hours after hearing it". This is our problem. We need people in the field with real talent, passion and a caring heart and this "crisis" will be solved 123.
Lastly, I challenge anyone who disagrees with this: If anyone ever tells you that its the "Shidduch Crisis", or "Hashem makes Shiduchim", ask them how many Shiduchim they have made. How many Shiduchim have they actually made in the past year or past month? How many have they made in the last decade? Let their answers speak for themselves.
5:27 PM Just as Stalin put it re: Vatican [All that matters to me is] how tank divisions they have Fortunately he & his successors were completely wrong. There are larger influences than just numbers
Numbers and influence are important in the sense that people don't take small versions of Judaism seriously. When was the last time a Ger or Baal Teshuva decided to become a Karaite? When your community is small and uninfluential, people aren't fooled into joining you.
Remember, the entire point of Galus is so that Geirim should join our ranks. If a false version of Judaism is dominant, it will frustrate that purpose.
Regarding blaming shadchanim, right now they have shidduch apps. So young people who want to get married can do so using the app. I personally know multiple people who got married through those apps.
As a parent of three boys who went to learn in EY me as a parent did not have much say in the matter, without the Rosh yeshiva getting him in some place and also belonging to a chevra, it is very difficult to leave earlier, many don't want to stay here that long they just don't have any choice, one that did want to go he had to find his own way and it was very hard. So they have a grip on the situation, and yes if they would send earlier or allow them to go earlier, with an olam, things could be different.
It's not a freilichen Purim. Unfortunately, in today's depraved society and a street that is almost like Sedom , every mechanech who knows bochurim will quietly admit to you that keeping a bochur single till 24 or 25 is not a recipe for kedusha and tahara. Torah without kedusha and therapy will not keep klal yisroel holy for generations to come. Unlike previous generations ,today ,any serious younger man can stay in learning at least 10 years of he is serious about hasmoda and learning. So there is really no excuse for not getting married at least by 20 21 or 22 as opposed to 24 or 25
Then why do you write 21-22? Because you know 18-20 is not the right age. Just as you know to learn Chumash at 5 and mishnah at 10 and gemara at 15, will only produce ameratzim like yourself. Same for getting married at 18-20. So then you're ok going against chazal till 22. Guess what, the right age to get married is 23-24.
Instead of paying one lump sum to the Shadchan only if the shidduch goes thru, CHANGE THE SYSTEM and pay the Shadchan per each date (regardless of the outcome), with a bonus if the Shidduch goes thru. This will give much more incentive for Shadchanim to come up with ideas and as a parent of a 23 year old girl and a 21 year girl, I'd gladly give a Shadchan $200 a date
(Average Shadchanus is $1800. Average amount of dates is 6 - 8 dates. So $200 per date and a $500 bonus if it goes thru seems very fair to me)
Our family is heavily involved in shidduchim and I can definetly say that we have a major crisis. In BMG alone you have over 500 bochurim over 25 years old, with over 50 that are 30 or older. These numbers are not taken out of the thin air, they come directly from the BMG Book of talmidim for the current zman. Mind you that you can get this book by paying BMG $100. That is just BMG.What about the hundred other yeshivas across the country. How did we get here? It started years ago when RY’s urged their top talmidim to only marry rich girls So that they can continue learning w/o any “digus”. Then they assured their boys From going to school and urging them to go into chinuch. After all these years you have thousands of families that have children that dont want to live this poor lifestyle est and all want to marry rich. On the girls side they are brainwashed both here or in seminary in EY to only marry top top boys who will learn the rest of their lives or go into chinuch while being supported by their parents. Unfortunately most parents cant afford this and the girls dreams are crushed with no shidduch prospects in site. We have attempted to make seperate shidduch meetings for boys and girls to meet shadchans but most refuse to come. How do they expect to get married if they dont do hishtadlus.
It is always the Bnei Torah that are to blame for all problems. This idea that RYs convince bochurim to marry rich is just a lie. Resha'im made it up, and fools repeat it.
500 over 25 vs how many married? Did you bother to look at the numbers for single girls? It’s amazing how much disbelief for mathematics there is in our community. It’s also amazing how people fail to realize that mathematical problem can only be solved by rectifying the underlying math. Every boy who is married marries a girl. There are more single girls than boys. Boys are therefore in more demand than girls. End story. These are clearly all sides of the underlying mathematical issue that boys generally marry someone 3-4 years younger who is from a group of slightly more girls due to population growth.
500 bochurim in BMG over 25 is not a crisis, when looked at as a percentage of couples that the system worked just fine for. The real issue is the unrealistic expectations of what marriage needs to look like as well as the exorbitant costs of getting married. Most parents can't afford the 75K that it costs to marry a child, and therefor are very passive about the situation. On the other hand, boys needing support for endless years is not sustainable either. We all clearly know the issue, and the age gap is a distraction. What i wonder is who is the age gap agenda benefiting as there seems to be some serious funding behind it.
There are more than 10000 single males in the West Bank.Many were originally raised in our communities before going out there.The girls turned them down
It's been canceled, forget it.
ReplyDeleteSource?
ReplyDeleteWhen a Jewish community veers away from Chazal, Hashem arranges for that community to lose membership and influence. This is in order to protect Jews from influenced from false versions of "Judaism." This happened to Tzedukim, Baisusim, Karaim, Shabbateins, Frankists, Reform, Conservative, and even Modern Orthodox, to some extent.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, when the Yeshiva community stopped keeping halacha - specifically the halacha of getting married at 18 - it was putting true true Judaism at risk. People began to believe that this was a legitimate expression of Judaism. Hashem has arranged, therefore, for the Yeshiva world to lose membership and influence, through the shidduch crisis. It will be a slow, but inevitable, process. Chassidim will become the majority of frum Jews within the next few decades, with the Yeshivish becoming a powerless minority. We see it happening in real time. Torah Temimah is now owned by Chassidim. Even Lakewood is now being, slowly but surely becoming Chassidish.
This process is inevitable. No policy of delaying girls or paying shadchanim will help. The only thing that they can do is teshuva. Trying to solve the shidduch crisis, without addressing its ultimate spiritual cause, is as silly as installing a sprinkler system in the Beis Hamikdash hoping that it will prevent it from being burned down.
A freilichen purim
DeleteFor those who measure things through 'power', Chassidim have won. Of course, Torah has another measuring tool.
DeleteRav Chaim Kanievsky didn't give brachos to people who delayed bochurim after 18. This was a way of showing that it is indeed a corrupted form of "Judaism."
Delete2 things can be true at once:
Delete1) Chasidim tend to do things their way and are in fact very influential. Us Bnei Torah on the other hand davka try to keep a low profile. They might also be larger in numbers, and this is primarily because after the war all the young orphaned Hungarians etc. were very impressed by many of the Rebbes, who actively worked to bring people into their camp. (Before the war, some of the largest courts known today (i.e. Satmar, Bobov) were in fact very small, and had less than 500 followers). This is not our way. We don't schlep people to our side.
2) The above comment makes no sense whatsoever.
The "Shidduch Crisis" has never been solved for one simple reason. It's because it is not a crisis (at least in the way people describe it). There can only be a solution to a problem if in fact there is a real problem that exists, which is why there has never been a practical solution which ever worked.
DeleteNow of course there are many single boys and girls who are suffering, but not for the reasons the Shadchanim claim they are. This "age gap" thing is a scam pushed mainly by the Shadchanim, as a coverup to take blame off themselves for not doing their job properly. This way, they can easily shift the blame from themselves onto "the system", and claim that the way "the system" is designed is fundamentally flawed.
Let's get real: Shadchanim are not all that interested in making Shiduchim. Sure, they "make Shiduchim" but only if they are in the mood to deal with you... They will only look at you if they are slightly impressed by you - sight on scene. Otherwise you can forget it. And if Chas V'Shalom you say it's not for you, they lose interest and treat you differently.
The reality is: 1) Unlike other issues, Shiduchim is different because nobody involved with it is going through what single people go through. They have no idea what it's like and have no qualifications to be telling single people why they are still not married. This applies to Roshei Yeshivos and Shadchanim as well. 2) There are singles - especially girls, who are sitting for years without getting Redt a single name. Sometimes they go out - maybe once a year. If we are being honest, it's not because of some statistic. It's because there is nobody looking out for them. If they get one name every six months they are lucky.
This is the sad reality which is plaguing our communities. It will not get solved by sending guys off to EY earlier or making girls wait longer. While there might be some truth to this, it is not the fundamental issue here. (Data and studies mean NOTHING without proper context. It's like saying data shows Jewish people are wealthy. While that might not necessarily be false, it certainly does not mean that all Jews are wealthy).
I personally heard from the mouth of a "prominent" (very well-known) Shadchan, who openly admitted that "I am lucky if I still remember a boy's name within 24 hours after hearing it". This is our problem. We need people in the field with real talent, passion and a caring heart and this "crisis" will be solved 123.
Lastly, I challenge anyone who disagrees with this: If anyone ever tells you that its the "Shidduch Crisis", or "Hashem makes Shiduchim", ask them how many Shiduchim they have made. How many Shiduchim have they actually made in the past year or past month? How many have they made in the last decade? Let their answers speak for themselves.
5:27 PM
DeleteJust as Stalin put it re: Vatican
[All that matters to me is] how tank divisions they have
Fortunately he & his successors were completely wrong. There are larger influences than just numbers
Shadchanim aren't interested in making shiduchim.
DeletePizza stores don't want to sell pizza.
Roshei Yeshiva are moiser nefesh to say shiurim to bochurim.
Sure sure......
Numbers and influence are important in the sense that people don't take small versions of Judaism seriously. When was the last time a Ger or Baal Teshuva decided to become a Karaite? When your community is small and uninfluential, people aren't fooled into joining you.
DeleteRemember, the entire point of Galus is so that Geirim should join our ranks. If a false version of Judaism is dominant, it will frustrate that purpose.
Regarding blaming shadchanim, right now they have shidduch apps. So young people who want to get married can do so using the app. I personally know multiple people who got married through those apps.
As a parent of three boys who went to learn in EY me as a parent did not have much say in the matter, without the Rosh yeshiva getting him in some place and also belonging to a chevra, it is very difficult to leave earlier, many don't want to stay here that long they just don't have any choice, one that did want to go he had to find his own way and it was very hard. So they have a grip on the situation, and yes if they would send earlier or allow them to go earlier, with an olam, things could be different.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a freilichen Purim. Unfortunately, in today's depraved society and a street that is almost like Sedom , every mechanech who knows bochurim will quietly admit to you that keeping a bochur single till 24 or 25 is not a recipe for kedusha and tahara. Torah without kedusha and therapy will not keep klal yisroel holy for generations to come. Unlike previous generations ,today ,any serious younger man can stay in learning at least 10 years of he is serious about hasmoda and learning. So there is really no excuse for not getting married at least by 20 21 or 22 as opposed to 24 or 25
ReplyDeleteWhy not get married at 15-16?
DeleteBecause chazal established 18 and also established till 20. So 15 and 16 is not the correct time. And I think you know that too
DeleteThen why do you write 21-22? Because you know 18-20 is not the right age. Just as you know to learn Chumash at 5 and mishnah at 10 and gemara at 15, will only produce ameratzim like yourself. Same for getting married at 18-20. So then you're ok going against chazal till 22. Guess what, the right age to get married is 23-24.
DeleteObviously the longer the girl is out of the chinuch system the shorter the desire and compliance to a kollel life.
DeleteSO BMG SHOULD MAKE A RULE THAT NO ONE WILL BE ACCEPTED AFTER A CERTAIN AGE. WEAK EXCUSES!!
ReplyDeleteIf he'll hear them out he'll understand and probably join them and push for that mehalech.
ReplyDeleteYes this is all BS. If this was the problem the BMG could stop it TODAY by saying we only take in bochurim 21 and under. Done
ReplyDeleteThe solution is simple
ReplyDeleteInstead of paying one lump sum to the Shadchan only if the shidduch goes thru, CHANGE THE SYSTEM and pay the Shadchan per each date (regardless of the outcome), with a bonus if the Shidduch goes thru. This will give much more incentive for Shadchanim to come up with ideas and as a parent of a 23 year old girl and a 21 year girl, I'd gladly give a Shadchan $200 a date
(Average Shadchanus is $1800. Average amount of dates is 6 - 8 dates. So $200 per date and a $500 bonus if it goes thru seems very fair to me)
Our family is heavily involved in shidduchim and I can definetly say that we have a major crisis. In BMG alone you have over 500 bochurim over 25 years old, with over 50 that are 30 or older. These numbers are not taken out of the thin air, they come directly from the BMG
ReplyDeleteBook of talmidim for the current zman.
Mind you that you can get this book by paying BMG $100.
That is just BMG.What about the hundred other yeshivas across the country. How did we get here?
It started years ago when RY’s urged their top talmidim to only marry rich girls
So that they can continue learning w/o any “digus”. Then they assured their boys
From going to school and urging them to go into chinuch.
After all these years you have thousands of families that have children that dont want to live this poor lifestyle est and all want to marry rich.
On the girls side they are brainwashed both here or in seminary in EY to only marry top top boys who will learn the rest of their lives or go into chinuch while being supported by their parents.
Unfortunately most parents cant afford this and the girls dreams are crushed with no shidduch prospects in site.
We have attempted to make seperate shidduch meetings for boys and girls to meet shadchans but most refuse to come. How do they expect to get married if they dont do hishtadlus.
I would love to get ahold of the book, who is the contact in BMG to get it from
DeleteIt is always the Bnei Torah that are to blame for all problems.
DeleteThis idea that RYs convince bochurim to marry rich is just a lie. Resha'im made it up, and fools repeat it.
Good they don't need to convince the naive like you.Somebody needs to be hanging around for the regular poorer girls
Delete500 over 25 vs how many married? Did you bother to look at the numbers for single girls? It’s amazing how much disbelief for mathematics there is in our community. It’s also amazing how people fail to realize that mathematical problem can only be solved by rectifying the underlying math. Every boy who is married marries a girl. There are more single girls than boys. Boys are therefore in more demand than girls. End story. These are clearly all sides of the underlying mathematical issue that boys generally marry someone 3-4 years younger who is from a group of slightly more girls due to population growth.
Delete500 bochurim in BMG over 25 is not a crisis, when looked at as a percentage of couples that the system worked just fine for. The real issue is the unrealistic expectations of what marriage needs to look like as well as the exorbitant costs of getting married. Most parents can't afford the 75K that it costs to marry a child, and therefor are very passive about the situation. On the other hand, boys needing support for endless years is not sustainable either. We all clearly know the issue, and the age gap is a distraction.
ReplyDeleteWhat i wonder is who is the age gap agenda benefiting as there seems to be some serious funding behind it.
There are more than 10000 single males in the West Bank.Many were originally raised in our communities before going out there.The girls turned them down
ReplyDelete