Repost:
Midwinter vacation in the yeshiva world community has always been referred to as, you guessed it midwinter break, Yeshiva Week was not in the vernacular of the Torah community. Yeshiva bochurim had an off shabbos and the girls had midwinter vacation. Recently, the Yeshiva week term has been adopted in describing the 2 week vacation period from mid - end of January. Advertisements and news articles have been referencing yeshiva week for the midwinter getaways to South Florida, skiing trips or other destinations.
The term Yeshiva Week is actually not new at all, it has been around for 30 -40 years among the Jewish day school and Modern Orthodox communities. Not too long ago, when it came to winter vacation, Jewish day schools were on the same schedule as other public and private schools across the country. Vacation time was determined by the xmas and New Year calendar at the end of December and continued until some time after New Year. As the Jewish day school education system grew, schools have changed the calendars to have vacation towards the middle-to-end of January. As a way to differentiate it from xmas week it was called yeshiva week.
Call it what you want but the mid winter vacation has taken on a life of its own with must do getaways. Perhaps the "yeshiva week" vacation has influenced the yeshivish mid winter vacation to go over the top leaving parents with no choice but to plan a trip and go away. Staying home is not an option and parents have to take off from work. Instead of a relaxing weekend at home it has become a chol hamoed in the winter. There's been some push back from schools but the trend is pulling the other way as lofe begins to get back to normal post covid or perhaps not that normal.
It didn't affect us.
ReplyDeleteWe stayed home & our kids understood our values.
Parents - stand strong for what you believe in and don't just follow the crowd.
....says the person who followed the crowd and is on the internet.
DeleteAshreichem!!
DeleteAnon 3:14 can we get past the why are you on the internet line and sticking to your values should be commendable
Deleteleaving parents with no choice but to plan a trip and go away. Staying home is not an option and parents have to take off from work. Instead of a relaxing weekend at home it has become a chol hamoed in the winter.
ReplyDeleteThis in a nutshell is the problem. At the root it's a parenting problem. If you feel that you have no choice but to do something that goes against your values (religious, financial or otherwise) due to pressure or the fear of how your children will react, you are failing as a parent. Better learn the necessary skills sooner rather than later.
Parents can not stand strong unless they always live their live within their ideals. Todays world is global everyone sees and knows what goes on. The frum newspapers push all this garbage and amplify it. Kids are not sheltered and if they they see all their friends doing fun things they expect the same. More so with teenage girls
ReplyDeleteI don't understand everyone's cynicism? Why is it bad to take a week off in middle of a long stretch of school but ok to take an 8-10 week break in the summer? We have several school aged children and are disappointed with how short this vacation is. We would love to spend some relaxing time with them and take a break from the chaos of their intense daily schedules. We can take off for appointments and when they are sick, but chasvishalom to just have fun?! It's extremely important in today's days to give your kids a good time! What's wrong with cool trips? Show them life is about learning and structure but also fun and exciting experiences! I fail to understand how this goes against any torah values.
ReplyDeleteI think you misunderstand the issue. Nobody cares if you take off a week and take your kids on a nice trip, if you feel your kids could use it and you can afford it. Kol hakavod!
DeleteThe issue is when it becomes the "expected" thing for families to HAVE TO take off from work, to HAVE TO spend money they don't have, to HAVE TO fly to a faraway cool place, all so that their kids don't feel deprived.
THAT IS THE ISSUE. I hope you have an issue with that too.
Chaos!?!?!
DeleteThey have plenty of spare time, stop fetishizing time wasting!
No, it's not 'extremely important in today's days to give your kids a good time'. It is not even important at all! Show them a good Shabbos, show them how you enjoy your lives, not how to enjoy the pseudo-life of vacations. Make Yomtov special and ruchniyusdik, with toichen and understanding.
Get rid of 'fun and exciting', they are not Torah values.
Exactly
DeleteSorry, we never do things because others do and make every decision entirely based on what is good for my family. I do nothing to impress people so I can't relate to what bothers you. Doing things because others do is an everyday problem u must be facing not just a vacation time problem. If you are content,, it shouldn't be that hard to teach your kids to be proud of what they have. And I disagree today's kids have long days, could use a break and 'fun and are exciting' are perfectly in line with keeping kids from wishing for more so IMHO it is in line w torah values. Stop being lazy and renaming it 'hashkafah values' If u really think fun is so bad go take them to Philadelphia to see a gadol etc but do something with your children! It's an opportunity not a burden!!
DeleteAlso, if fun is keneged hatorah how do you justify the summer months when your kids have fun in day camp? And all this "pressure " you nebbach have to put up with this one vacation of the year has me curious how you put up with the every day pressure of buying clothes and shoes that the other kids have... In our home our kids get nothing that anyone else is wearing unless it was coincidental, we don't subscribe to "the crowds", but my kids are happy because THEY KNOW THEY'RE PARENTS ARE EXCITED TO SPEND TIME WITH THEM AND HAVE FUN TOGETHER!! Oh and there are cheap and free ways to do it... we know how ;) so no excuses, this all sounds plain lazy hiding behind frum
Delete
DeleteAnon 6:24
When you end up having almost the same lifestyle and using the same vocabulary as a disguise as the modern..
Most people are not as special as you. Most of our children are very affected by their surroundings, which is why we go to great lengths to place them in the right schools, to live in the right neighborhoods, to have the right friends, so that they won't be affected negatively by the wrong crowd.
DeleteAnd now it became accepted that "everyone" MUST do a cool faraway unaffordable vacation. Boruch Hashem you don't have an issue with it. For the rest of us, its hard to fight the tide. So now we have a choice to make: go on these expensive unaffordable cool vacations, or our children feel deprived.
(Reminder: This is not about you. Its about the rest of us.)
You're right. I did not realize how strongly people are affected by 'what everyone is doing' You actually gave me clarity as to why people obsess with the crowd their kids are with. I assume now it's to lessen the severity of the "everyone has it" fallout. I still don't understand why we have to use the words 'kneged hatorah' when it's an issue of parenting challenges and not torah values. Regardless, I'm sorry for your pain. May your children bring you much nachas...like 'yenems' kids;)
DeleteMr Cohen 7:29:
DeleteYou forget that certain RY family in Lakewood attended one of those MO day schools.
And it was co-ed, wasn't really cost effective, but MO people supported it (just like they supported BMG for decades, probably still today.)
As did RY of major yeshiva in Yerushalayim, that is a major feeder school to BMG
If you're looking for an out of town community an hour from Lakewood where non of this pressure and mishagasim exist w/ kollel spots, jobs, and financial incentives, txt 215-688-3928
ReplyDeleteKiruv communities are not the solution. We need Charedishe communities, 100% Charedish, without the dross that has evolved over the years, and without the bedi'eveds that we have had to accept and grandfather into our Chinuch system.
DeleteWe need a school system that is based on Torah and Sechel. Not based on the Goyishe school year or curriculum. No קנאות, just Sechel. The Mishnayos/Gemara learning should be based on a methodology that works and brings out the kochos of the children. The Limudei Chol should make sense, have accountability and a curriculum, and a clear goal. Not 'treat teachers with Derech Eretz goal'. No three months off for the boys OR girls, no elitism or bad middos disguised as Yiddishkeit.
Community members will have places to shine in a way that helps the community, so that they don't look for ways to hurt the community to be able to stick out. Find a place for each person to serve and feel needed, so that they don't search for ersatz methods of expressing their individuality. If a Simcha is made up of the neighbors getting together to bake for it, there are less chances of meat boards and barbecues. If people can help others, their clothing takes on less value.
Kiruv does not do all of that for us.
Yes it seems your Derech has raised some very corrupt and greedy politicos and Vadniks, wolf in a black suit,that is destroying Lakewood
DeleteAnon 5:41 - my Derech has not been tried yet. Open a new town that is set up lechatchila. Lakewood was never set up under the leadership of a visionary. Reb Aaron made a Yeshiva, not a town. No Chadarim or other public institutions were set up by the Yeshiva. That is why the Da'as Ba'alebatim permeates everything in this town.
DeleteThe Frumma Chesbon is the Derech of Lakewood,Rationalzations seems to be the main course,where greed,gaiva and Genaiva have become Mitzvahs to our Elite leaders
DeleteThey should all have their Teffilin checked,in this Obvious and Glaring Disconnect to Above,all their learning is for Naught
DeleteAnti kiruv guy,guess Achdus and Ahavas Yisroel are not part of your vocabulary
DeleteMove to Vineland,the State has a huge school campus sitting empty,land and homes are cheap,1 hour from lakewood
ReplyDeleteVineland isn't a state
ReplyDeleteKanarek tried and failed
Who are you thinking can do better than he?
Thousands of kinderlach under his spell, hundreds employed on his paycheck, daf yomi twice a day. Yet he couldn't pull it off.
The Holy Chasidim can get it done ,no sweat
DeleteIt's a very crooked town like Lakewood,money talks the rest walk
ReplyDeleteWhen the Vineland Board saw Kanarek,they flipped out and quietly rezoned the site to industrial,Highly illegal,meanwhile the site is rotting away
ReplyDeleteThe whole town is rotting away.
DeleteWhatever's left of it.
By the way, Vineland poultry was not a Satmar project, and it failed cause it was not cost effective. Selling out to a competition was cost effective.
There are currently a group of young from Jews in Vineland reviving the Jewish Keholla and Farming around the Ancient Alliance Shul,one of them is a Direct Descendant of the GRA
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteWho sets the terminology and vocabulary of the world, and who
just lives in it
Even satmar withdrew the from the shlacthoiz. Now there's nothing heimish, not even a chicken for kaporos!
ReplyDeleteIt's so interesting. Everybody screams that we need to stay away from the pressures of our kids seeing their friends go to Florida vacations etc etc. Yet when parents want to try to shelter their kids from that and the schools are formed to try as much as possible to take families that they hope for the most part don't do those kind of things ,then everybody screams ,gaiva ,gaiva etc. . While there is no guarantee of sheltering your kids and there will always be a few parents who might not follow , what is wrong for schools to at least try to take mostly families who don't do these kind of things. Pleae explain.
ReplyDeleteBecause your method is the exact opposite. Instead of instilling YOUR values into your children, you are trying to create a surrounding of your values. You are teaching your children to follow the crowd, instead of resisting the crowd והיא לא תצלח.
DeleteI'm sorry. It's close to impossible to instill your values to impressionable young kids if 90 per cent of their friends do not share your values. Yes there are some very strong kids and very strong parents that can do it , but most can not. 50 years ago when we went to school with barely shower shabbos kids UT wasn't a problem. We knew they were different and we didn't follow them. But today when the kids who are onto the most gashmiyus are children of kollel yungeleit and families that are outwardly very frim looking ,then children assume that is what us normal and that their parents are the news. Ask any mechanech.
DeleteLeit or
So you believe that we shoukd not be concerned at all about our children's friends and classmates lifestyle. As long as we try to instill our values ,they can be in a school with children from families totally not aligned with our hashkofas and we shouldn't worry that it will influence them ? ? ?
DeleteLove that 'ask any mechanech'. Of course the 'mechanech' will tell you that you need to trust the mechanech and not try and instill your own values into your children. Otherwise, he is out of a job.
DeleteThe truth is, even nowadays, we can go against the stream, as long as we don't fight it. We can teach our children that we don't care about others, our way is the only one for US to live by. Whether the other kid is a child of a Rosh Yeshiva or a child of a trendsetting תורה וגדולהnik. And if you aren't willing to live like that, you will remain a 'gass yung' - someone who lives in the street, keeps up with the Jones and learns his hashkafos from the street.
And yes, if you live like this, you can teach like this, and you don't have to be worried about who the other children in the class are. Many of us grew up in mixed schools, with children with televisions alongside Rebbe's children. And things were fine, the non-television children did not become different just because of the other kids. Segregation has been proven not to work.
'everyone' screams ga'avah?! No, Rav Shteinman screams 'ga'avah'! He was the one who made this announcement, and he has been proven to be right, again and again.
DeleteEveryone just had off shabbos Chanukah and in 6 weeks it’ll be purim followed by another 4 pesach followed by another 6 shavous followed by another 2-3 summer followed by Elul followed by tishrri how much time do they need off? Plus they had early release the whole week of Chanukah give me a break most of they day they learn shtusssim
ReplyDeleteNews Flash!
ReplyDeleteMost people do not go away for mid-winter. Shuls are as full as ever, offices are not closed and Kollelim are still open. It is just not true that 'society' has gone off the rails. It is true that the simple people are not featured in ads and articles, but the silent majority has not gone crazy for mid-winter.
And so keep losing their influence on their children because of it.That is how the klepto k-nockers prefer things, for the silent majority to remain.. silent.
DeleteAttempt to convince yourselves that you are not modern. You use modern conveniences,live in modern homes, have modern appliances, use modern modes of communication. use modern conveniences for every single thing. You are modern. We are all modern. There is nothing wrong with it. It is exactly what is as expected of you as a jew. If you don't want to be modern, become Amish
ReplyDeleteA world of difference. Whether you maneuver through the oncoming traffic or if you embrace it and hope for more?
DeleteIt's all your choice. Either live a life of following your eyes and everything that's fake in this world. Or close your eyes, and live for real.
ReplyDeleteGrowing up in boro Park 20 years ago there was no such thing as mid winter vacation. It's a new meshigas that has to end.
ReplyDelete20 years ago in Lakewood there was midwinter - I believe there was a roller skating rink that was always advertised... How about stopping this EY Bar Mitzvah thing - just because you can claim we're not making a big event during the week doesn't excuse yourself for spending 1000's on a trip to EY. Your child will go when he turns 20. Back in the day not everyone made big events - but that wasn't an excuse to waste it somewhere else..
DeleteAnd no such thing as a mesivta offshabbos every few weeks.
DeleteAfter reading these comments and the comments on the scoop ,I now really understand why people are fighting to get their kids into schools that have a parent body where less of this type of stuff happens. If you really believe that your children's friends behavior and hashkofas have no influence on them and that it is so simple just to tell them that we are different, then you are totally not in tune with todays nisyonos and today's generation. I have friends that sent their daughters to different schools and they told me that as much as they have a strong loving home wirh great relationship to their kids and great hashkofas, they clearly see the difference in their daughters wanting to marry true Bnei Torah dedicating their lives to Torah and the general difference regarding their attitudes to technology ,non Jewish music etc etc. Both daughters are fruim and ehrlich but the difference in hashkofah is evident based on the type of school they went to and the type of girls in those schools.
ReplyDeleteMidwinter break should be canceled in all Lakewood schools. None of us had this when we grew up in Ny and nobody needs it.
ReplyDeleteNo need to cancel. The frum girls schools have all of Friday and Monday off. Wirh Friday being very short learning anyway, they are basically getting one day off. That is not so much.
ReplyDeleteThe craziness of traveling for midwinter is out of control and should be condemned by all. Schools should suspend anyone who traveled on a plane midwinter for a week to bring an end to this craziness.
ReplyDeleteMr cohen do you have anything to say on this topic?
ReplyDeleteThose people of distinction who post their names sincerely are worthy of giving their comments value
DeleteOk so you stay in Cancun with your family until pesach. The rest of us bnei Torah don’t want this.
ReplyDeleteMr cohen are you suggesting you are a person of distinction? Lol. You definitely are distinguished in the sense that you post the most incoherent comments and always give us a good laugh.
ReplyDeleteIt's a long winter.
DeleteIn this eis tzarah, when achdus is needed most, you could have updated this pott to omit the pitting of "yeshiva world" against "modern orthodox". The same points and questions could have been raised without the necessity of causing needless pirud.
ReplyDeleteI smell jealously behind many comments. Keep up the good fight but also work on kinah...it may help alleviate 50% of the baayot.
ReplyDeleteJealousy for the sake of keeping a clean fortress against invaders
DeleteMore like keeping a clean...whatever... for the sake of jealousy.
Delete