Rav Dov Landau wrote a letter printed in the Israeli Yated Neeman against participating or joining in zionist institutions There's no permission whatsoever to serve or hold any position in the zionist organizations or vote in their elections as Zionism is a secular movement rooted in kefira and rebellion against מלכות שמים Any involvement in Zionist institutions is a form of support for shmad kefira and Chilul shem shamayim. The voting for knesset members is based on what was decided by our previous leaders ZL and has no connection to the above.
כשם שקיבלתי שכר על הדרישה כך אקבל שכר על הפרישה
ReplyDeleteWHY does voting for Knesset members have no connection to this issue? WHY is being in the government coalition and being a minister in Zionist government OK and have no connection to any other form of involvement with them?
ReplyDeleteSee בעיות הזמן by R Reuven Grozovsky where he outlines clearly the heter for joining the knesset, which doesn't apply in this case
DeleteR Reuven Grozovsky did not approve of Charidie cabinet minister either. But to quote עיות הזמן "Despite these arguments, it is impossible to issue an halachic decision from afar, without detailed knowledge of the situation, for all the above does not apply to compelling circumstances, when one has the opportunity to save others from shmad. In such circumstances, joining the government might not be a matter of willing association, which implies approval, but rather an action under duress-similar to when our righteous ancestors cooperated with evil kings ... or with ordinary resha'im under similar coercive circumstances"
DeleteHence the Americans, i.e. r reuven, r Aron r avrohom, should talk for the americans' vote in wzo ym"sh
DeleteRav Reuven Grozovsky disagreed with Rav Chaim Solovachick about “nebach ah apikorus iz oich ah apikorus” and how such people are to be viewed and treated. Even Rav Chaim Solovachick did not act or talk with the frothing at the mouth hatred that is commonly expressed on hefkervelt in relation to people who were apikorusim for a lot less innocent reason than today’s secular Israelis.
DeleteIf this is your haskafa don’t complain when day care subsides are cut and other financial sanctions are placed on Chareidim. It is almost identical to the secular view that promotes those cuts. They also say “the Chareidim do not want to participate and help the state in any way. They do not deserve state benefits” If the WZO allocates millions of dollars to Reform shmad don’t complain. They offered you the chance to vote and prevent it. You refused to take it
ReplyDeleteJ4J has a conference coming up and there will be a vote on how much to allocate to missionizing Jews, can I send you a membership form so you can place your vote?
Deleteus real frum existing not the watered down versions of DL and bnei akiva lehavdil are the zchus that these reshaim gemurim Zionists have, otherwise the land would spit these kofrim bikur out as all they do is arayos, party, toeiva parades and mehalel Shabbos.
Delete11:36 If there conference where there was going to be a vote deciding on spending money (1)to missionize Jews or (2)to give it to Yeshivas would be the correct analogy to this situation
DeleteLol if you still think voting for the Wzo The small people will end up with the money, well they've been in there for a few years besides getting some high paid jobs for those connected what has been done?? Frumme talk for a select view to make $$$.
Delete1:43 Right that was my point, no matter how much money you would be able to redirect to good causes (which Eretz Hakodesh isn't doing either by the way, but just for the sake of argument) no frum person would ever think of becoming a card carrying member of J4J.
Delete11:44 -- they've also been paying hundreds of millions (if not several billions) to fund yeshivot for decades. And these RYs insist on being kofer tov.
DeleteBituach Leumi (Israeli Social Security) and the Kupot Cholim (Israeli government health insurance ) are also Zionist organizations. Neither of them were around in the days of the British mandate or Ottoman Empire
ReplyDeleteThey might have been created by Zionists but you don't need to sign that you believe Zionism is the national liberation movement of Klal Yisroel and that a democratic Israel is the "vision of the prophets" and that the IDF is the force of protection for the Jewish people living in Tzion in order to get the money. The WZO is an ideological organization that you have to commit to advance their principles in order to join.
DeleteThe WZO principles that they ask to affirm do not say what you claiming they do.
DeleteThe unity of the Jewish people, its bond to its historic homeland Eretz Yisrael, and the centrality of the State of Israel and Jerusalem, its capital, in the life of the nation;
DeleteAliyah to Israel from all countries and the effective integration of all immigrants into Israeli society.
Strengthening Israel as a Jewish, Zionist and democratic state and shaping it as an exemplary society with a unique moral and spiritual character, marked by mutual respect for the multi-faceted Jewish people, rooted in the vision of the prophets, striving for peace and contributing to the betterment of the world.
Ensuring the future and the distinctiveness of the Jewish people by furthering Jewish, Hebrew and Zionist education, fostering spiritual and cultural values and teaching Hebrew as the national language;
Nurturing mutual Jewish responsibility, defending the rights of Jews as individuals and as a nation, representing the national Zionist interests of the Jewish people, and struggling against all manifestations of anti-Semitism;
Settling the country as an expression of practical Zionism.
Encouraging recruitment and service in the Israel Defense Forces and the security forces and strengthening them as the protective force of the Jewish people living in Zion, as well as encouraging full National Service for anyone exempted in law from service in the IDF.
https://azm.org/wzo/jerusalem-program/
@1:48: if you have other principles from them please quote.
Deletevery happy to see the gadol hador and leader of klal yisroel outright said Zionism is kefira and something we should avoid at all costs
ReplyDeleteIf you are such an Ish Emes that everything you affirm on every on every other form you sign is glatt yosher (v’dai L’maven) then I understand the issue with making such vague affirmations to the WZO. But if when it comes to other forms you take a very crooked view of emes and sheker and have all sorts of svoras for why it is OK to be eched b’peh v’eched b’lev when signing them it isn’t because of principle that you don’t want to vote.
ReplyDeleteI saw R' Dov Landau's letter posted here too:
ReplyDeletehttps://harehbetzba.com/eretz-hakodesh/
It has a lot of background about the WZO and Eretz Hakodesh specifically.