Simchos are wonderful, once-in-a-lifetime events. But we must conduct them legally and safely. We must minimize the above factors to protect all our communities.
Many of the cases nationally have been traced to large simcha gatherings. Such events carry particular risk because they:
· Bring many people together;
· From different geographic areas;
· Are often loud, requiring shouting (which emits more particles) and close proximity to communicate;
· Masks cannot be worn while eating;
· Social distancing is difficult; and
· Are typically held indoors in a confined space.
Simchos are wonderful, once-in-a-lifetime events. But we must conduct them legally and safely. We must minimize the above factors to protect all our communities, especially as we desperately seek to reopen our yeshivos, daven b’tzibbur, keep our communities safe, and return to a sense of normalcy. Simchos that spread illness and do not conform to local laws should not be allowed to jeopardize that.
Indeed, any public gathering should minimize as many of the above listed factors as possible.
Please help stem this recent uptick in several of our communities from becoming anything worse, chas v’shalom.
Agudath Israel of America wishes all of Klal Yisroel a k’siva vachasima tova, a new year filled with Hashem’s abundant blessings of good health, brocha and hatzlocha.
Askanim still working on closing down indoor weddings and possibly minyanim and yeshivos. so far they have not publicized any letters yet.
ReplyDeleteThese askanim were silent since an uptick began a month ago on lkwd did not issue any public statement for people to be careful but now to show their power they are ready to shut down life avain. If they really cared about safety of the community they should have let people know what is going on like what was done in all frum communities Brooklyn, Monsey, Baltimore etc..
DeleteAskanim working on shutting down indoor
Deleteweddings but will wait untill end of the week so one of their buddies can make a regular wedding.
Agudah has the same flawed thinking as governments around the world, that we could somehow "stem" an outbreak. Therefore it is somehow an obligation on everyone to "do their par". And if one is not careful they are harming others by not collectively participating in "stopping the epidemic".
ReplyDeleteWrong. It has never been done and is impossible.
Epidemics are not man made disasters. They are natural disaters and there is nothing us mortals could do about it. Just like we can't stop snowstorms, we can't stop epidemics. They end only naturally.
The most we could do is try to protect ourselves. Which means older and unhealthy people should take appropriate precautions. But ultimately every person has the right to do what they want, even if there's a risk of catching a disease; you cannot stop them with this warped logic that they are endagering others; they are not. The only ones who need to quarentine are people who are actually sick.
You can to be ignorant and selfish or informed and compassionate.during the Black plague, those who were scrupulous about hand washing and general hygiene fared much better. There are logical precautions which we must take to protect ourselves and others.
DeleteIve seen your comment on like 10 posts and i finally just have to ask. If you mean that nothing can help then why do you say older people should take precautions? If you mean that no one can tell you what to do then why do you say we cant stop epidemics? Pick a lane. (Mind you i think both arguements are dumb but at least by themselves they make sense but together its just a contradiction)
DeleteOk, let's see if we could explain it for not so smart people, Moshe.
DeleteWhen you stay indoors during a hurricane you are protected, right ? Good. So far so good, Moshe.
But did you stop the storm ? No, right? Right ?? Okay, good, Moshe.
Can we force people to stay indoors during a hurricane in order to "protect others" ? No; like we just agreed- staying indoors WILL protect me, but will NOT stop the hurricane, therefore there is no reason to force me to stay indoors. It is my choice as to whether I would like to take my chances.
Still with me , Moshe ? Good
The same thing applies to an epidemic. I may want to protect myself. I also may decide to take my chances; it's up to me.
But even if I (and many other people) stay indoors, I only protect myself. I cannot stop the epidemic that's raging. So here, just like with the hurricane, it is up to me to do what I see is best for me.
Usually that means that the younger/healthier will go out , while the elderly/unhealthy will stay home. That's the best thing to happen .
But again; it's up to each individual. Because- and this is the main point- no matter what individuals do, the epidemic will stop when it wants to, not when we "take steps" to control it. We can't.
Got it, Moshe ? I hope so, although I have my doubts...
Except for the fact that hurricanes are not contagious and coronavirus is. Also there’s no asymptomatic hurricane but there are asymptomatic carriers. But other than those huge discrepancies, your argument is spot on
DeleteGaon - your logic is impeccable. I will try and use it elsewhere.
DeleteWhen it is very cold, you wear a coat, right?
So when you are hungry, just wear a coat and all will be good.
I met someone making himself a coffee and he was looking for the salt. I asked him why and he said, "when I put salt in my soup, it made it taste good. And I want my coffee to taste good too".
I had this huge chidush, that hurricanes are completely different to epidemics. Because hurricanes are not spread by people. Quite naturally.
DeleteOnce upon a time, people believed that mold in the air spread diseases. Nowadays it has been pretty established that germ theory is correct, and people spread diseases from their bodies. Quite naturally. Epidemics don't rage, people spread them. Quite naturally.
So, and this is complicated so Gaon read carefully, if people are the ones spreading it, people can stop spreading it. Quite naturally.
In fact, by now the experts believe that this virus dies quite quickly without its host, which is a human being. Unlike hurricanes which exist with or without people.
Major chidush, so you may need a day or two to process it.
It all makes sense except for the fact that hurricanes aren't contagious.
DeleteIF YOUR ARE CONCERNED THAT THE EPIDEMIC IS CONTAGIOUS, THEN STAY HOME!!!!!
DeleteTHAT IS PRECISELY GAON'S POINT!!!!
WHY ARE YOU FORCING ME TO DO THIS OR THAT?
Like i said in my original post i understand the logic of "dont tell me what to do" I just dont get how you can also argue "we cant do anything to help" if you admit staying home will protect you. His point (assuming youre not him posting as anonymous) was we cant do anything so stay home to protect yourself if youre scared which i just pointed out is contradictory. Thank you everyone for pointing out that the hurricane comparison was somewhat questionable.
DeleteLove the Ge'onus on this thread. This Ga'on guy is pure comic relief. And to think he calls others 'not so smart'.....
DeleteThe elitism of his argument hasn't escaped me either. There is Gaon, and the 'not so smart' people. And Ga'on says, naturally, Ge'onus.
Gaon,
Deletethe olam shlugged up your farkrumteh logic.
Try again if you can but the tzushtell is a bad one because you infect others when you go outside a hurricane will not hurt someone based on where you are.
So basically, Aguda opened their mouth and said nothing.
ReplyDeleteTelling us to "minimize" without giving guidelines is totally worthless
They opened their mouths months ago and issued very detailed guidance. It was the ignorant that didn't follow or even acknowledge their policies.
DeleteThen what exactly is the point of aguda opening their mouth again. The ignorant wont listen and the knowledgeable dont need aguda to tell them
DeleteThey are telling you that though your kids might be playing together and we are not keep all the recommendations, have a little bit of Seichel. If most cases are being traced to simchos then it is not worth the risk of having our Schools closed down.
ReplyDeleteKudos to Aguda for taking a lead on this issue to protect the community while in Lakewood the local askanim remain silent ignoring the reality just as they did when coronavirus broke out purim time. They reacted too late and overreacted afterwards.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, the Agudah did the same at the time.
DeleteWas there a apology for the fake news of yeshivos closing down. Turns out the major breaking story was bogus.
ReplyDelete