Sunday, December 3, 2017
Lakewood Rabbonim address Eruv issue
Lakewood Rabbonim from the Yeshiva and chasidish circles signed a letter about the recent attempt to make a city wide Eruv. In the letter they write about the merging of a few eruvin together with the plan to ultimately have a expanded eruv for the entire Lakewood. "This matter was brought up 20 years ago and at the time it was ruled that there would not be a city wide eruv " ,they claim.. In addition the letter also says that no current Rabbonim were consulted about the new eruv.
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A throwback to the Paulsy Levovitz days.
ReplyDeleteוהמבין יבין
Please explain
Deletesmall difference R' Levovitz was here first
DeleteR' Levovitz was not here before Rav Aharon. why do people like you make stuff up?
DeleteOk so lets go. Which rabanim didnt sign....
ReplyDeleteSo instead we have a confusing array of 1000 Eruvim that no one can accurately delineate and chillul Shabbos is rampant.
ReplyDelete%100
DeleteDee Eiriv Trugger or shall we call you an Eruv Troll
DeleteSo your solution for chillul shabbos due to ignorance is to create a situation where no one will know about the melacha of hotza'ah at all?
DeleteYou can't make up your own gezeiros. There is no problem with making an eiruv שלא תשתכח תורת הוצאה. We have enough mitzvos and aveiros, no need for new ones
DeleteYou missed my point. I was saying the excuse of "there are so many little ones that people can't keep track", isn't an excuse to make a bigger (and probably more problematic) eruv that is controversial.
DeleteAs someone that was involved in the new big chasidish eruv:
ReplyDeleteThe new eruv did NOT rely on old eruvim, in matter of fact a lot of the small development eruvim were not good! Tens of thousands of dollars went into making the eruvim to the most strict way.
The idea of Lakewood being against the eruv is not really according to R' aron zatza"l; r' aron was against ANY type of eruv, the minute the yeshiva themselves! Made n eruv around BMG, it's already against R' Aaron zatzal!
So what's the problem now? Most of the rabonim that signed (if not all), signed because BMG pressure! Fact!
The reason a row was brought in from new York to give a hechsher is because no Lakewood rov wanted to start up with BMG! (This is a fact!)
The rov that gives the hechsher on the eruv, actually made eruvim throughout the world (England, Vienna, London, Israel etc.), So what's now? Oh, it's that BMG is not controlling the town anymore.
The eruv is 100% kosher n whoever wants to fight it with HALACHA is more than welcome to come n challenge, not with such bogus letters to claim that it's not kosher when tens of thousands and years of work went in it to make it kosher l'mehudar 100%!
Grow up! Let's see ANYONE challenge it with halacha!
You cant come into a town and ignore its leadership and minhagim. should we come into Monroe and wear long shaitels, women wont wear socks, allow ladies to drive etc.. against none of these are against Halacha
DeleteCan a name of the Rov be given?
DeleteOne major BIG difference .Kiryas yoel was started from SCRATCH by reb yoel. L akewood on the other wad around way before reb ahrons days. No comparison at all.if reb ahron called the shots why pray tell doesnt everyone daven the same nusach as BMG.?
DeleteIf Bmg calls the shots why is it that there are a handful of hechsherim besides kcl? If rav ahron called the shots why are there chadarim in lakewood besides for the cahyder? Answer is that rav ahron never inteded to high jack lakewood. He wad concerned about bmg and only bmg period! Bmgeez minhagim are for BMG and no one else. kAPIsH?
The young Ruv Hamatir from Brooklyn R' Moshe Yosef Unsdorfer from the Zlozitz shtibel took upon himself to challenge the Rabbunim from the Ihr Hatoirah Lakewood, even though he doesn't live here. He's been known to engage in these types of tactics before. Just do a search on "Anshei Lubawitz" on 12th Ave in boro park.. Some real shmutz there..
DeleteLakewood has no Rabinic leadership. That's another fact. In fairness to the rabbonim in town, they defer to BMG and the roshei yeshiva. But since BMG and the r"y are controlled (others say held hostage) by the one who shall not be named, then the whole thing looks like a house of cards and a joke. No wonder there's zero respect for BMG.
DeleteThe idea of Lakewood being against the eruv is not really according to R' aron zatza"l; r' aron was against ANY type of eruv
DeleteThis is baloney propaganda.
"Mehudar 100%". Did you ever hear the quote (allegedly) from the chazon ish: "I've never seen a kosher eiruv or a passul Mikva" v'doik
DeleteAlso rav shmuel emir Katz is meikil in this area. and many of the young halocho guys are his talmidim. Also rav shlomo Miller has a chidush that would allow even according to rav Aaron an eeuv on many roads assumed in till now to be a problem according to rav Aaron. Many rabbinic have not accepted his chidush.
DeleteOk as someone who studied the complex halocho of driving for many years, it breaks down as follows the main roads in Lakewood would be dependant on 2 different shitos the mechabur brings down. How we Pasken is a machloches for generations. Many different minhagim etc + mishnah berurah biur halocho etc also it's a question of minhag was there a minhag lekulah or no rav Moshe held yes, rav Aaron held it does not apply here. The idea that leffee rav Aaron every eruv is Pasul is pure ameratzus
DeleteDon't prove anything from London, 98% of the Rabbonim there were against, including the town's rov rav padwa.
DeleteIf the people involved in this eruv are not embarrassed to lie publicly and say something as silly as R'
DeleteAhron was against ANY type of erv so the Eruv around BMG is against R' Aron then they have lost all credibility and reliability.
I have experience with these types. Next they tell us R' Ahrons opposition was only for haskafa or political reasons.
They probably never even went through the teshuvos he wrote on the topic or eruvin.
Genius Moreinu Rav Berel ,
DeleteMistama you never heard of the Mishkenos Yaakov.
But you should because he is the one who the chassidim rely on becasue he is melamed zechus on those who say birchas krias shema after zman tefilla
-Siman 80.
However he also is machria lehalacha that the Ramabam is the ikar hadin in eiruvin that osi rabim umevatlei mechitza siman 120
Rav Chaim Volozhiner is quoted to have agreed with this psak
Rav Ahron ZT"L supports this shita in his famous teshiva in mishnas Rav Ahron -
To this day nobody has refuted his arguments in any cogent form.
Oh I forgot there is one rebbeleh in BP who had the following teirutz _ fuhn a kasha shtarb min nisht!
That is the new level of lomdim and lomdus coming to Lakewood.
The future of Lakewood will be Boro Park and Monsey a Judaism that is merely peyos mit chulev yisruel
The famous machlokes between the Miskones Yakov and Bais Efraim whether eruvin can be made in cities with less than shishim riboy or not has no bearing on the Eruv around BMG .
DeleteABE, I'm obviously not on your level, as I didn't understand most of what you said. That being said, your last line is disgusting and uncalled for. Just because someone lives a life differently than you doesn't make them anything less than you. Learn a little mussar too.
DeleteHaGaon Reb Berel,
DeleteI am sorry but it very much a part of the Mishkenos Yaakov as a matter of fact you can`t say the word reshuyos without connecting with that teshuva.
There are also issue of Platya quoted by the Beer HeTeiv 345 sk 7 that Rav Moshe was choshesh for but was out voted by the Chasidim
Also is an issue of Srataya in certain places that per CI quoted in Chut Shani is an issue.
I am not sure why calling shallow and lenient observance of Shabbos and mitzvos is wrong .
Yiddishkeit is alot more than peyos and chulev Yisrael maybe if we are zocheh it will be kugel and kishka as well
Who is ziknei harabanim? They were asked, but they refused to get involved...
ReplyDeleteTheruvin are a hodge podge. The ones that start and end and restatrt are causing more chilul shabbos since people are not aware of all the starting and stopping points
ReplyDeletewelcome to the chasidim moving in, they are not phased by any letter they will do whats best for them. Also notice Rav Shmuel Meir Katz did not sign either.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly what the vaad brought to Lakewood they claimed that we have growth and must build to accomedate it but the only ones who are moving in are cgasidim that can afford it. The realtors are only shopping these new master plan approved density homes to chasidim. The youngeleit of BMG cant afford to live in lakewood anymore, anyone ages 35 and younger is moving out to Jackson and elsewhere. So now they shouldn't complain when the chasidim are coming.
ReplyDeleteThey have no allegiance to Lakewood or the Yeshiva. any attempt to force the lkaewood mesorah on them will be laughed at and fought against.
The "EIRUV" will be the divider between the chasidim and the yeshiva.
ReplyDeleteThe Hasidim will not back down.
It’s HaRav Pesach Z. Levovitz, Zecher Tzaddik l’vrocha. The Rav in whose class the R”Y Malkiel learned in as a young boy.
ReplyDeleteAre there any current rabbonim IN LAKEWOOD who WANT this eruv?? Not the "I'm not getting involved" rabbonim. Any rav who believes there should be a shtut eiruv. If there isn't, who gave r'shus for a few chevra to call down this rav from boro park (who has been known to use "unconventional" mehalchim to get objectors to stand down, v'hamavin yavin), to make an eiruv?
ReplyDeleteCant understand how anyone can challenge this Eiruv.
ReplyDeleteIts a matter of peukuach nefashos for all the people who have to move here from B.P. And its an issue of hefsed meruba for..... It also saves so many yidden from chillul Shabbos, every yid that drives down Rt.9 on shabbos will now not be oiver another issur. Not only that, but driving on rt. 9 on shabbos they are helping a worthy cause by being a good reason to have an eiruv so that the tzadikim leshem shamayim who are bringing in the oilam from B.P. can sell more houses and not have a hefesed meruba.
There are many other shailos involved by not allowing this mitzva to happen...
Does any rov take responsibility for it? Actually sign his name? Who checks it? Who checks that it was checked? This sounds like the eiruvin in monsey that were down for years and nobody chapped.
ReplyDeleteYes ppl check it every week
DeleteWHO checks it every week? If I notice a problem, who do I call? Which local rav is in charge?
DeleteYou guys are living and Lakewood to long wake up and smell the Coffee. Any Litvak or non Chasidic growing up in Brooklyn can tell you the Chasidim were never Goires the Litvaks they were never Goires Rav Moshe Feinstien Zatzal either to the Chasidim all Litvaks and Non Chasidim were Shabbos Goyim and they could not care how many hours you Learn or how much Torah you know. You wear short Jackets and Ties with Mardena Clothing you shave you talk English your a Shabbos Goy. The Real Chasidim don't deferentiate between Yeshivish Balei Batish and Modern Orthodox it is all the same to them your all the same Shabbos Goy. Take it from someone who grew up in Brooklyn and understands the Chasideshe Mentality and way of thought
ReplyDeleteAnd eat cholov stam, even though you really dont.
DeleteYou don't have to use the eiruv if you don't hold by it. In Monsey the Chassidim use the eiruv and many non-Chassidim don't.There should be a comprehensive map showing where the eiruv(im) is/are like in Monsey and there should be a hotline to call about the eiruv for any questions anyone should ask. Being that I am here a long time and the Yeshiva's policy was not to have an eiruv, I'm a little uncomfortable about the idea. Kids could grow up thinking one is allowed to carry on Shabbos if they get used to an eiruv. Since there are eiruvin all over, people may think carrying is allowed on Shabbos, unless they are reminded to make sure there is an eiruv.
ReplyDeleteWhy do Frum Jews have to fight about everything? If you like it use it, if you don’t like it don’t use it.
ReplyDeleteWhy must you trample on the rabbanei ha'ir??? And YES Lakewood is still a community based around the yeshiva, even with all the faults going on here. Come into Lakewood, piggyback off of the "Jewish infrastructure" built by the yeshiva, and then say "why do we need to fight"???
DeleteSo according to you Sinas Chinam is a vital component of Yidishkeit.....got it.
DeleteWho said anything about sinah?arguing about halachah is sinah?
DeleteLakewood already has a eiruv that was made prior to R ' Aron. It was meant for tge sons of israel people. Rabbi tendler is in charge, you can call and hear the Eruv hotline 7323642230
ReplyDeleteit was not made "prior to Rav Aharon".
DeleteAs an old time Lakewooder I must say that the revisionist history mentioned in some of these replies are a product of active imaginations and as far from the truth as possible.
Delete1. Reb Aaron did not want an Eiruv for his own reasons which he did not share
2. Rabbi Levovitz never made an eruv in Lakewood
3. Most of Monsey uses the eiruv and this included yeshivisha families
As on of the respondents said use it or don't use it just don't fight about it
to just a yid, Rav aarons reasons against a city wide eiruv are clearly outlined in the teshuvos that he wrote not a secret or personall in any way. 2, rabbi levovitz made an eiruv in parts of lakewood 3 about monsey comparing monsey to lakewood is comparing apples and oranges, every eiruv has to be studied on its own merits p.s.I dont know any yeshivishe families in monsey that use the city wide or vishnitz eiruv its mostly chasidim who go according to there minhogim who use it. also just a yis dont become a troll and check yur facts
DeleteAnon, FYI don`t get flustered , the BP PR firm used to have the hamon Am use their eruv made this a hasidic/bnei torah issue .
ReplyDeleteThey even went so far as to say that the only reason why Rav Chaim Volozhiner was machriah like the Mishkenos Yaakov was not based on merit (as his teshuva clearly says) but rather on bias because he was a Volozhiner talmid .
It`s standard hasidic MO (modus operandi) to say it`s all politik (you have to roll the "l" ever so gingerly and enuncuate the "t" & "k" heavily ).
Once they paint it as a us against them the simple folk who would never go against their proud heritage are more than eager to follow and deride those who say otherwise.
You will have very hard time arguing with a group whose is satisfied with the answer of -fuht a kasha sharbt men nisht-
Good Luck
One thing is certain. Anyone who makes a town eruv over the opposition of the local established Rabbonim is NOT motivated L'shem Shmoyim. No matter how "mehudar" they claim the Eruv is.
ReplyDeleteUr talking non sense! There's a inyan of making n eruv n I would gladly bring u sources, but, I just read all the comments, the only person arguing tzim Zach is Alumni BE, the rest r talking non sense, get ur facts together, LEARN TGE SUGYA n then come n challenge.
DeleteSome examples of non sense is the fact that R' aron zatzal claimed that he's going with the mishkenos Yankev n ppl the DONT KNOW ANYTHING claim here that it's not true, another example of non sense ppl is that ppl complain here that there's no hot line info on this eruv (did u ever see the sign with the map that has a website, telephone number, Twitter contact info???), So to sum it, the best reason why this eruv is kosher is that u see that ppl that r against it argue with non sense while the ppl that r for it r answering with halacha!
Can ANYONE fight it halachally? Dosen't look like it, face fact, learn the SUGYA n you'll see it's kosher, Rt. 9 is NOT a reshus hu'rabim, it's R' Aaron zatzal, n if the yeshiva wouldn't of made n eruv than u ta'ke can NOT mane n eruv in Lakewood, but the yeshiva themselves have n eruv (Around BMG), So what's the difference? If the yeshiva which r' Aaron zatzal opened is making n eruv, MA NO'MAR A'NAN?
P.s. now I understand what it means: don't confuse me with the facts, I already made up my mind!
It's not opposition to town rabunim, v'doik!
DeleteThey will talk it into themselves , don`t you worry .
ReplyDeleteThey feel it`s some sort of mitzvah to be meikel with reshuyos on Shabbos.
They have the same heterim with amira lenochri .
If you show them the Halocha they just answer - fuhn a kasha sharbt men nisht .
Chochom Odif MiNovi ;
Perhaps this is what Rav Ahron Leib had in mind when he first came to Lakewood and in his schmooze mentioned that some people say lchovod Shabbos Kodesh before they partake of Shabbos food however it would be a bigger hiddur not to say it and to be honest with oneself and be mehader on the midah of Emes .