Sunday, April 6, 2025
Video: Rav Yaakov Shapiro Shiur on Zionism and the WZO Given in Lakewood
Rav Yaakov Shapiro discusses Zionism and the current attempt to get frum Jews to vote for "Eretz Hakodesh" in the World Zionist Organization (WZO) elections. Why are Rosh Yeshivos and Rabbonim saying it's so obvious it's ossur there's nothing to talk about, for example Rav Dov Landau who compared to voting in the WZO to serving avodah zara ( • Rav Dov Landau Regardi... , while on the other hand many people are asking 'What's the big deal?'? What is the core idea of Zionism and why Gedolei Yisroel opposed it with such intensity? And what is the difference between the WZO and the Israeli Knesset? All of this and more explained in-depth by author of the most thorough book on the subject of Zionism from the frum perspective: The Empty Wagon. With haskomos from Rav Eli Ber Wachtfogel, Rav Moshe Sternbuch, and more.
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Just so we know who we are talking about -
ReplyDeleteThis is a 2023 interview with the author where he discusses his opinions on Zionism directly after a discussion about the Shmini Atzeres/Simchas Torah massacre from the Palestinian perspective (it's called "Debunking Zionist LIES With Noura Erakat & Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPAmvGN234
it is specifically mentioned that he is present during the first part of the conversation. Is he simply naive as to whom he is interviewing with and what he is tacitly endorsing?
I don’t understand your point. Rabbi Shapiro who is a brilliant Talmid Chacham and mechaber seforim was on the show and represented the correct hashtags on Zionism and explained how Zionism doesnt represent Judaism period. Not more not less. Sounded great to me!
DeleteThank you for posting this is amazing!
DeleteIf you are concerned about issues like hiscahbrus l'resoyim, then Yaakov Shapiro is not a person to be listening to for Torah haskafa. That is putting it mildly. Just google him to see who he spends his time hanging out with. I'm not only talking about his Muslim friends and his work for the cause of Palestinian Nationalism . He is also friends with Jewish anti-Torah and anti G-d activists because they are also anti-Zionist. He has made joint interviews with people who refer to themselves as ex-Jew as a career. etc. He is the last person to be lecturing against hischabrus l'resoyim.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure you know what hischabrus means. It doesn't mean "talking to". In his interviews with goyim he never says anything more than "Israel doesn't represent the Jews, we have no connection to them." I don't recall where but in one interview he even says 'you could support Israel and not be a Zionist and you could oppose Israel and still be a Zionist. It all depends on whether or not you think Israel = The Jews. If you understand that Israel is no more intrinsically connected to the Jews than China then my job is done.' "Joint-interview" doesn't make someone a friend...
DeleteUm...Shapiro isn't nearly that tame in his interviews. He isn't on the Board of Directors of International Council for Middle East Studies for saying such things...He isn't quoted by the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, Haaretz and The Jewish Week for saying such things... By your logic voting in WZO is certainly not hischabrus l'resoyim
DeleteI was once listening to Shapiro talk on some non-Jewish podcast about how Zionists have always looked to spread anti-Semitism and how terrible Zionists are blah, blah, blah and I was thinking how is what you are accusing them of having done any different than what you are doing now?
DeleteHe’s preventing anti semitism Zionists are promoting it
DeleteZionists spread antisemitism. People like Rabbi Shapiro fight it.
DeleteDoes he have any Torah background? Is he a man de'amar in learning at all?
ReplyDeleteBecause his cherry-picked sources in his book lack context and ignore the opinions of many Gedolim. His absolutist position tends to grab the youth, but lacks the maturity of nuance and context.
His book, The Empty Wagon, has haskomos from R' Eli Ber, R' Moshe Sternbuch, R' Yitzchok Tuvia Weiss, and others. Are they man de'armarim in learning?
DeleteYes, he is a man d'amar. What you say "lacks maturity and context" is described by R. Elya Ber Wachtfogel as "pure and unadulterated daas torah".
DeleteSounds about right.
DeleteYankel Shapiro thinks kol davar assur is mutar for the sake of bashing Israel. Even having a nice pattycake panel with anti-semite leftwing crazy Gilad Atzmon. Sitting down with a big smile, talking politely and nicely with such enemies of our people should make any sane Yid cringe. But for these bums it's par for the course.
ReplyDeletedo a search on Youtube and see who his friends are.
ReplyDeleteJust what his points are need context. He makes like having a tatoo parlor in yerushalyim as the worse thing that ever happened in eretz yisrael. Yes it is a shame but is he going to mention what was going on by the times of bais hamikdash? was that also zionism fault? Unhinged is an understatment for this entire "shiur"
ReplyDeleteWhich shuir did you listen to? The one I heard posted on hefkervelt he didn’t say the tattoo parlor is the whole issue he said an example of Zionism is when because the letters are in Hebrew you feel more ok with the tattoo parlor but hey I’m sure your referring to a different shuir
DeleteWow the leftists and zionists are triggered today
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to be a leftist or a Zionist to be appalled by hypocrisy.
DeleteRabbi Shapiro is prime example of why not to get too caught up in anti-Zionism. Rabbi Shapiro is a brilliant person with so much to offer the frum world. In times like today when Yiddishkeit is under attack from all sides, there is so much he could accomplish for the frum world and Torah.Had he written a 1300 page book against the CURRENT enemies of Torah and their ideologies he would be from the strongest spokesman for and defenders of Torah Judaism in our time. His former website, frumteens, was a lifesaver for some. Tragically he closed that website down and chose to use his talents and energy to fight people and ideals that are long dead. (yes I know he insist they are alive and well) And then like most people who spend too much of their time focusing on what is wrong with others he forgot what he was fighting for . To quote what I heard from Reb Avrohom Yeshoua in the name of the Brisker Rav about some of the anti Zionist warriors ... dee ershter shlug is efsher l''shem shomayim uber dee tzveiter iz zicher nisht...
DeleteFrumteens was a terrible site, promoter of simplistic shtussim and a kosher way to discuss things that shouldn't have been discussed. B"h it was closed down and removed from the internet.
DeleteFrumteens did a tremendous amount of good! He clearly answered all questions the teens had, and then turned it into a source of inspiration. חבל כל דאבדין
DeleteOn TORAHANYTIME.COM , Rav Michalowicz from Toronto has over 150 shiurim titled Zionism & its Relationship to Judaism" on Rav Yaakov Shapiro's book. https://torahanytime.com/speakers/1391?selectedFilters=%7B%22search%22%3A%22Zionism%22%7D&pageNumber=1
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting. I read RYS’s magnus opus and listened
Deleteto his amazing and informative videos and interviews. His book is packed with information I wish he he included an index. I will definitely IyH listen to the rabbis shiurim.
Anon 4:31 Shas and Shulchan Aruch you went through that after reading a 1300 page book against Zionism and listening to many more such interviews you still need to hear more Shiurim on the topic? I'll take it on my achrayos if you listen to shuirim on say hilchos Shabbos instead.
DeleteR' Reuven writes that amaratzus in this issue is koruv l'A"Z.
DeleteAnon 6:47 I’d guess that you believe Zionism doesn’t exist because if you did you’d know that it’s the yetzer harah of our generation that is being machriv most frum yidden unfortunately and it’s not easy to stay strong but will be worth it in the end (ayin rav Moshe shternbuchs most recent clip on voting in wzo besides the shabbos hagadol drasha)
DeleteIf that were true then most of Klall Yisroel over most of its history were koruv l'A"Z. And if you mean R' Reuven Grozevsky he never wrote such a thing. He explicitly wrote his disagreement with Rav Chaim Soloveitchik about nebich ah apikorus iz oich ah apikorus.
DeleteAnon 9:51 Newsflash. It is possible to believe that Zionism exists without being obsessed with it and thinking that it is it’s the yetzer harah of our generation. The overwhelming majority of Gedoley Torah over the past hundred fifty years did so.
DeleteAnon 6:10 As a news anchor your entitled to your opinion but would you say the chofetz Chaim was “obsessed” with lashon hara or Reb matisyahu was “obsessed” with the internet or possibly when there’s something most people are ignorant about and are nichshol in it’s not an obsession to keep talking about it and educating people
DeleteThat version was missing about 20 minutes in the middle. Here is a fixed version: https://youtu.be/iQBy85VU4x4?si=7zovqiI0GmtGqZ1r
ReplyDeleteAll Zionists take a chill pill any frum person is happy with what rabbi Shapiro is doing all hes saying is Zionism is not Judaism so if you have any issues with Zionism don’t blame the Jews. Let’s say THANK YOU to rabbi Shapiro for doing that. Of course if you have Zionist hashkafos you’re gonna get a little insulted.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Shapiro is not mischaber with any reshaim Though I do know that Reb Eli ber called him yedid nafshi in his Haskama to the empty wagon so seems like he’s friends with good people and good people are his friends
Even it's for the cause of anti-Zionism you still aren't allowed to lie. And don't bother when a quick google search shows that what you are saying isn't true
DeleteDo you think mischaber means like to act friendly towards? Rav Avigdor Miller published an ad in the New York Times, is that hischabrus?
DeleteIf you believe that acting friendly .giving joint interviews and fighting for your joint cause together is still not mischaber then you should no issue whatsoever with voting in the WZO elections....
DeleteJoint cause? Lol. When Rav Aaron ztz"l met with a Mafia godfather to help Jews in the Holocaust and spoke respectfully and even gave him a brocho was that also hischabrus? Hischabrus means when you sign that you're a Zionist and agree with Zionism. That's what you call common cause.
DeleteEven if true what shaychus? The Chazon Ish met with Ben Gurion. I heard from Rav Dovid Solovatchik that in theory the Brisker Rav would have met with him too had he felt there was a toeles in such a meeting. There are plenty of pictures of the Brisker Rav sitting with the heads of anti frum groups in Brisk. Instead of reading 1700 page books about Zionism, the oilem should be putting effort into knowing how to learn and how to apply the principles of when (not) to do things . None of the examples above are hischabrus L'resoyim. Try to understand why. A guy who sits on the board of directors of Islamic antisemitic groups and gives joint interviews with Soney Hashem is hischabrus L'resoyim. Try to tell my why not without boich svoras
DeleteAhh I’m so happy you told us what the oilam should be doing but I’d take Reb Eli ber and Reb Moshe shternbuchs word over yours they say it’s important to read. Anyways which Islamic groups is rabbi Shapiro part of? Take your time no rush but maybe prepare for pesach first wouldn’t want you searching forever for that group
Deletep.s. -if you need a hint let me know…
I know you don't actually want an answer but Shapiro is on the board of directors of ICMES. P.S. there is no need to talk with such sneering condensing tones. It doesn't speak well of you or your cause. To put it mildly
DeleteYou can’t expect to be moitze laz on a tzadik and T”C and expect people to take you seriously.
DeleteThat’s Rabbi Shapiro to you and he is on the board of the directors of the ICMES what exactly about that is Islamic? And to save you time the I doesn’t stand for Islam… it stand for international so try again or admit you don’t know and stop being moitze laz
I looked at the ICMES website and social media. The ICMES (International Council of Middle East Studies) is a branch of Georgetown University and is a group of scholars of all types (including Zionists) to teach advanced content about the Middle East. They had a member of the Israeli government speak, a Lubavitcher who is the head of Chabad in Harvard, and they deal with anything to do with the Middle East. Rabbi Shapiro is on its board and we should thank H-shem that an actual real talmid chacham and ben Torah knows enough about the middle east that college professors and deans consult him. I have a link to a speech he gave there on Zionism which I will link after this paragraph. The content has nothing to do with Islamists. The most disturbing thing about the WZO supporters is that they are willing to smear anyone as an antisemite or Palestinian supporter unless he agrees to their agenda. It is no longer a question why bnei Torah are protesting outside the homes of the Zionists in Lakewood who try to be machtee the rabim.
Deletehttps://youtu.be/NQ-tRrKeAfQ?si=fxLcZn5fIWhgEhcQ
Of course you don't mention that the recently deceased president of ICMES is an OTD professor who has written works of kefira about Jewish history. Bnei Torah don't protest outside the houses of people they accuse of Zionism. Thugs and lowlifes do.
DeleteDid many google searches and listened to may of his shiurim and speeches his sole message when discussing this topic is that Israel doesn’t repeat the Jews that’s it finito. If you can be so kind and provide a link to an instance where he says otherwise
ReplyDeleteHe does say the state of Israel doesn't represent Judaism. But he also defines Zionism the way the Palestinian Nationalists do and encourages their movement in the process. They aren't inviting him to present the Torah haskafa on Zionism. It is a busha to have to say this but Palestinian Nationalism isn't Judaism and we have no common cause with them. Seems from reading this discussion that there are yungerleit who don't understand that
DeleteThat’s simply false. He defines Zionism as a way of changing the Jews from a religion to a nationality what does that have to do with the Palestinians?? It’s not Torah to say Zionism isn’t Judaism Stop with these lies and slander against a world class talmid chacham
DeleteHe defines Zionism the way all the gedolim defined it, like R' Elchonon, the Chazon Ish, the Brisker Rav, which is the way the Zionists themselves define it, as he quoted in the speech. There is no disagreement how to define Zionism, except that yungeleit who want to be Zionists like our Eretz Hakodesh supporters on this blog just don't like it.
DeleteActually, the Chazon Ish said nothing of the sort. Neither did the Brisker Rav. Reb Elchanan may have. But zionism = kefira is not the opinion of most Gedolei Yisroel.
DeleteThe religious Zionists never defined themselves like that.
No one needs gedolim to say it’s kefirah by definition Zionism is kefirah
DeleteSo they didn't say it, but they should have.
DeleteGood point.
Of course, those that actually read the literature of the time have a different picture. Not the newspaper curated version, but the actual letters of Gedolei Yisroel, from Rav Kook to the Chafetz Chaim. Read the Shivas Zion and the מכתבים מזוייפים נגד הציונות, and find out what the truth is.
Zionism being kefira is a slogan, disconnected from the Torah we actually learn.
Sorry dude but this is not up for debate. Zionism is the belief that kla yisroel is a nationality and not a religion that the Torah is not what makes us klal yisroel rather its a common land language and culture anything that is kefirah no debate. If you want to call it shmionizm as oppose to Zionism cuz ur some type of liberal and don’t like to offend any Zionist Jews so be it but don’t change the facts
DeleteWow your telling me about a letter from rav kook to the chofetz Chaim?? Is that the same rav kook who Reb Elchonon called a rasha or is that his 2nd cousin?
DeleteRav Elchanan called him a rasha? Where did you see this?
DeleteKovetz Maamarim, a letter to Rav Yosef Tzvi Dushinski. To be exact, he called him a "rasha gamur".
DeleteWhich ppg.
DeleteDuring his final illness ,he regularly asked after his welfare
There are hundreds of letters from Gedolei Yisroel to Rav Kook, all written with the utmost respect. Reb Chaim Brisker (yes, look it up) and the Chafetz Chaim, Reb Chaim Sonnenfeld and the Ridvaz, and many others.
DeleteSome letters were published denigrating him, but they were proven to be forgeries, including the Rogatchover and the Ridvaz.
The idea that one outlying letter is the only source for our view on Rav Kook is just wrong.
Yes, many disagreed with some of his opinions, and some quite vehemently. But nobody who knew him believed that he was a bad person. No Adam Gadol who knew him thought he was worthy of the moniker 'rasha'. They all respected him greatly. The Chazon Ish treated him like he was a Gadol Hador, making sure to visit him before he could come to him (they met in the street).
Sadly, a kehilla machlokes in Yerushalayim has warped people's sense of history. We can no longer accept the concept of disagreement with respect, and are all the poorer for that.
It is true that the gedolim's general view of Rav Kook was that of an elevated and refined tzadik who suffered from naivetè. Or, in other words , he wasn't completely moored in the olam hamaaseh. (Some of his close talmidim saw that as well.) According to this view, much destruction may have resulted from the secularists gaining an opening to the frum world.
DeleteRav Chaim Sonnenfeld's grandson writes that his grandfather always referred to Rav Kook as the Yaffo rov. Why? Rav Chaim explained that Rav Kook's mehalech was indeed a very good one - for a particular subset of Yidden. In Yaffo he would save - and saved - many, many Yidden. The problem was bringing it as the mehalech for the Yishuv Hayashan and for all of Eretz Yisroel.
They're inviting him to find out if Zionism is really Judaism like the Zionists say or not. And he says no shaychus. He never gets involved in politics of the conflict or supports either side. He just keeps telling them: Judaism is not Zionism and we have no connection to this conflict.
ReplyDeleteHow much money are the ehk members making? Prob a pretty nice side hustle.
ReplyDeletezilch
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