Rav Boruch Hirschfeld shlita retracts from initially supporting Eretz Hakodesh after speaking with 2 prominent roshei yeshiva see videos below
Rav Baruch Hirschfeld, Rosh Kollel from Cleveland, OH issued a retraction of his previous support for Eretz Hakodesh/WZO. He says that his previous support was based on seeing a video of Rav Chaim Kanievsky supposedly supporting Eretz Hakodesh but after further discussions with other talmidei chachamim he has since retracted his support and ask for that to be publicized.
Did any Rosh Yeshiva in Lakewood actually see a copy of the letter that was sent to Rav Chaim Kanievsky zt'l, and the letters that were sent back? Or it all hearsay?
ReplyDeleteHere is audio link of Rav Uren Reich shlit"a on this from 2020.
https://vinnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/rav-urin-reich-wzo.mp3
Is it necessary for Maranan the roshei hayeshiva to see letters posted to know what the Torah wants of us?
DeleteReb Chaim approval to vote in WORLD ZIONIST ORGANIZATION ERETZ HAKODESH
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/ppQnuJHep6Y
Rav Aaron Feldman shlita addressed in detail the whole Rav Chaim Kanievsky support claim by eretz hakodesh.
DeleteFor all intents and purposes, there was no written response forthcoming from Rav Chaim at all. Once this became apparent, Rav Kamenetsky discounted the veracity of the claim of Rav Chaim’s support. Rather than allow ourselves to be caught up in the web of innuendo and
untruths being spun by Eretz Hakodesh around Rav Chaim’s position on the WZO, we ought to speak openly and honestly about that which we all know—who Rav Chaim was and what he believed and stood for his entire life. And in that spirit, we must ask: Is it logical to believe that Rav Chaim was prepared to permit that which gedoley olam, including his uncle, the Chazon Ish and father-in-law, Rav Elyashiv, prohibited"...
Rav Dov Landau is the current living manhig of Degel in 2025 and he wrote against voting for WZO
DeleteBut Eretz Hakodesh wants you to rely on a YouTube video of Reb Cbaim where they make a mockery
And they ignore Rav Elyashiv who said not to join a mere 11 years ago.
Rav Dov Landau Shlitah is the Manhig of Degel! Yet Degel is part of the present Zionist Government in Israel! Degel's representatives in the Government is Gafni and Pindrus! So can anyone explain why Rav Landau is against voting in the WZO elections but has no problem with voting every single day with Zionists, and when I say every single day I'm including Shabbos, when Gafni and Pindrus signed their consent backing the government minutes before Licht Tzindin!
Delete"But Eretz Hakodesh wants you to rely on a YouTube video of Reb Cbaim where they make a mockery"
DeleteWhat mockery??????
"And they ignore Rav Elyashiv who said not to join a mere 11 years ago."
DeleteYour logical reasoning is totally farkrumpt. They went to a gadol hador and they got a psak. End of story.
DIN - I have no problem with voting for WZO. But the difference between WZO and Knesset couldn't be easier to understand. Living in Israel automatically places a person under the jurisdiction of the Zionists, like it or not. Voting mitigates their influence and power over us.
DeleteWZO is nothing like that.
I can't say I always understand Reb Dov, but this is simple.
"For all intents and purposes, there was no written response forthcoming from Rav Chaim at all."
DeleteHow exactly does that boich sevara lead your brain to refuse to face the reality that Reb Chaim actually did say that one may join
DIN, lomdus clearly is not your thing. stick to Artscroll.
Deleteעי' בעיות הזמן למרן הרב ראובן
DeleteOk, I hear Rabbi Hirschfeld saying that he has come under pressure so he no longer wants his opinion publicized.
ReplyDeleteWho is paying for all of this pressure? Who cares so much about this? There is some conspiracy here.
I suspect someone is upset with those who are receiving the money in EY, and wants the money for himself.
Another פשוטו של מקרא story.
Huh? Rabbi Hirshfeld withdrew his support. You don't trust Rabbi Hirshfeld and are foolish enough to besmirch him. But you're trying to fool and hoodwink those who trust Rabbi Hirshfeld.
DeleteHe didn't say that, he said he thought Rav Chaim signed so he was behind it, but now he heard that's not accurate, so he takes no position.
Delete"For all intents and purposes, there was no written response forthcoming from Rav Chaim at all"
DeleteSo therefore? 12:05 am provides eidus brura what reb chaim held and you ignore it because reb didn't also write a letter? Take your krume svaros and flush them please
B"H if some facts are explained, he will not mind to publicize his mistake, and speak out.
DeleteI believe we need stronger language that says ANYone participating in these Zionists games is considered a kofer b'ikur and must account for this in the next world.
ReplyDeleteWhat if that isn't true?
Delete8:58am
DeleteDid your eyes not see, and did your ears not hear Reb Chaim say that one may join?? See above 12:05 am
As of June 2024, an updated review of the Jerusalem Program—the official platform of the WZO and the global Zionist movement—shows that it continues to emphasize core Zionist ideological principles that directly conflict with Torah values. The amended foundational principles now include:
Delete1. "The unity of the Jewish people, its bond to its historic homeland Eretz Yisrael, and the centrality of the State of Israel and Jerusalem, its capital, in the life of the nation."
Conflict with Torah Values:
The Torah teaches that the unity of the Jewish people is based on Torah observance (תורה אחת ומשפט אחד יהיה לכם – במדבר ט״ו:ט״ז).
The Zionist concept of unity is based on nationalism rather than Torah, placing Jewish identity on ethnicity rather than commitment to mitzvos.
Centrality of the State of Israel in Jewish life is a modern Zionist innovation; the Torah emphasizes that our true "centrality" is the Beis HaMikdash and Hashem's presence, not a secular state.
Gedolei HaDor, including the Chazon Ish, the Brisker Rov, and Rav Elchonon Wasserman, strongly opposed the idea of a secular Jewish state as the center of Judaism, as it replaces Torah as the defining element of Jewish identity.
2. "Aliyah to Israel from all countries and the effective integration of all immigrants into Israeli society."
Conflict with Torah Values:
Aliyah to Eretz Yisrael is a mitzvah when done for Torah purposes, but Zionism promotes aliyah without religious intent, prioritizing nationalism over Torah.
Integration into Israeli society often means compromising Torah observance, as secular society in Israel is largely opposed to Torah values. Many immigrants are exposed to secular education, the army (where religious observance is difficult), and assimilation into a non-religious culture.
The Torah does not endorse mass immigration for political purposes; exile (גלות) is a Divine decree, and any return must be led by Hashem, not secular politicians (as per the Three Oaths in כתובות קי״א ע״א).
3. "Strengthening Israel as a Jewish, Zionist, and democratic state and shaping it as an exemplary society with a unique moral and spiritual character, marked by mutual respect for the multifaceted Jewish people, rooted in the vision of the prophets, striving for peace, and contributing to the betterment of the world."
Conflict with Torah Values:
Judaism and Zionism are not the same: Zionism replaces Torah-based Jewish identity with secular nationalism.
The term "democratic state" means that the majority, not the Torah, decides moral laws—this is completely contrary to Torah governance (מלכות בית דוד will be based on Torah law, not democracy).
"Mutual respect for the multifaceted Jewish people" often translates to legitimizing non-Torah lifestyles, including violations of Halacha.
"Rooted in the vision of the prophets" is misleading—the Nevi'im never spoke about a secular state, but about a Torah kingdom led by Mashiach.
"Striving for peace" often justifies political compromises, including land concessions, which contradict Torah prohibitions (e.g., giving away parts of Eretz Yisrael to non-Jews, as ruled by the Ramban in השגות לספר המצוות, מצוות עשה ד').
4. "Ensuring the future and distinctiveness of the Jewish people by furthering Jewish, Hebrew, and Zionist education, fostering spiritual and cultural values, and teaching Hebrew as the national language."
Conflict with Torah Values:
Jewish education must be Torah-based, not Zionist. Zionist education teaches secular nationalism rather than Torah values.
Hebrew as a national language is a distortion—Biblical Hebrew (לשון הקודש) was preserved for Torah study and tefillah, but Modern Hebrew is a secularized version, often used to promote anti-Torah ideologies.
"Fostering spiritual and cultural values" in a secular Zionist context means promoting a Jewish identity detached from Halacha, which leads to assimilation rather than Torah observance.
Delete5. "Nurturing mutual Jewish responsibility, defending the rights of Jews as individuals and as a nation, representing the national Zionist interests of the Jewish people, and combating all manifestations of antisemitism."
Conflict with Torah Values:
Mutual Jewish responsibility (ערבות) is defined in Torah as ensuring that Jews keep mitzvos, not just defending nationalistic interests.
"Representing national Zionist interests" has no Torah basis; the Torah's interest is in Klal Yisrael following Torah, not nationalism.
"Combating antisemitism" is a noble goal, but the Torah teaches that antisemitism is a result of spiritual failures (רש"י, דברים כ״ח:ל״ז). The solution is teshuva, not political activism.
6. "Settling the country as an expression of practical Zionism."
Conflict with Torah Values:
Settling Eretz Yisrael for Zionist purposes is not a mitzvah—the mitzvah is to settle Eretz Yisrael for Torah observance, not to promote nationalism.
Many settlements established under Zionism have been secular, violating Shabbos and mitzvos, making their settlement of the land spiritually meaningless.
Chazal (כתובות קי״א ע״א) prohibited mass immigration before the arrival of Moshiach, ruling that Jews must not forcibly reclaim the land (Three Oaths).
7. "Encouraging recruitment and service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and the security forces, strengthening them as the protective force of the Jewish people living in Zion, and encouraging full national service for those exempted by law from service in the IDF."
Conflict with Torah Values:
The IDF is a secular institution that enforces policies against Torah—such as co-ed military service, preventing Torah-observant soldiers from fully keeping mitzvos, and promoting a Zionist rather than Torah-based identity.
Chazal teach that the Jewish people’s protection comes from Torah observance, and Ameilus B'Torah and not from a secular army (Torah scholars are called the real defenders of Klal Yisrael).
Forcing yeshiva students to serve in the IDF contradicts the Torah’s value of prioritizing Torah study as a means of national protection
Encouraging "full national service" suggests that even those exempted for religious reasons should serve in secular roles, which can expose them to anti-Torah environments.
These principles reinforce ideological commitments that remain in direct opposition to Torah values and further affirm that participation in the WZO should be forbidden.
So now HaRav Feldman considers Rav Dov Landau as the Godol HaDor
ReplyDeleteCan someone clarify for the oilam ?
I heard it is better not to mention zionist or anything similar and just say the 'z' word.
ReplyDeleteWhen Rav Baruch Hirschfeld said to vote for Eretz Hakodosh there was no mention of it. The opponents didn't care about his opinion . Only when he retracts are we are told his opinion. Who else is that true about that did not retract?
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know Harav Yossef Harari raful's real position on WZO?
ReplyDeleteHe assurs voting for WZO here
https://harehbetzba.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/In-Their-Own-Words-Pages-Color-Hi-Res-PRINT-NO-BLEED.pdf
but is on Shas's list of candidates here
https://storage.googleapis.com/castiron/vm_app_stage/media/contest/2d6a977c-a559-4173-ba3e-12cd34d52331/Shas-Two-Pager.pdf
Rav Gurewiz , Rav Feurst and Rav Asher Weiss all say to vote for Eretz Hakodesh. BH. There are yaish omrim and yaish omrim.
ReplyDeleteRav gurwicz said to listen to the gedolim , he is kiyehuda v'oid likra, do as rav chaim said to do, would do, and did. Not to fall for any videograghy
DeleteWith permission, I am publicizing that Reb Eliyahu Levin voted for Eretz Hakodesh in the WZO and believes it is the correct thing to do.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the fact that if Eretz HaKodesh doesn't get a large enough vote, the reform might get the funding and use it to destroy Torah. They'd probably start with an egalitarian Kotel.
ReplyDelete