Thursday, July 20, 2017

"Those who allegedly cheated the system are extreme outliers"

Photo Credit: @avischnal
The Agudah, Lakewood Vaad and other local organizations held a community symposium to "clarify" and offer guidance with govt benefit programs in response to recent arrests that targeted the Lakewood community. According to the APP  More than 1,000 people showed up at The Cheder ballroom. The report quotes: 
"This is not the time for fright," a member of Lakewood's Vaad, or Jewish council, said during the seminar. "This is the time to look at yourself and say 'am I eligible.'"
Weisberg said the vast majority of people on welfare in town need it. Those who allegedly cheated the system are extreme outliers, he said.

"There are bad actors and bad apples," he said shortly after the arrests. "A lot of this is not, most of this is not."
APP reports Mark Harris, the former U.S. attorney, offered guidance to anyone cowed by the recent arrests. People make mistakes about taxes and benefits all the time," he said. "Making a mistake is not a crime. Being negligent is not a crime. "The crime is to misrepresent...to intentionally do something wrong." 
The Lakewood Rosh Yeshiva Rav Dovid Schustal graced the dais.

46 comments:

  1. You cant trust anything that is reported in the newspapers. How can the the Roshei Yehiva and thousand youngeleit sit there quietly and not be moche as the self serving spokesmouth publicly disparaged and shammed innocent youngeleit calling them outliers?
    I hope the report is not true but if indeed these comments were made in public and no one called him out on it, this is a bigger story than the arrests.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Just comes to mind what rabbi Moshe feinstein use to say America is Medina shel chesed Uber nisht Shel rachamim!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Who did he say that to?

      Delete
  3. Harold HerskowitzJuly 20, 2017 at 6:26 AM

    If he indeed used the term outlier, he should be castigated for it. Whatever happened to KOL YISROEL ARAIVIM? Even if someone would do an intentional crime you don't say he is not a part of the community. HOW MANY GUILTY CHILD MOLESTERS HAVE THEY PROTECTED ALL THESE YEARS? The hosts of this event must be afraid of something themselves. No mention of public shaming and persecution? No mention of blatant antisemitism?
    JUDENRAT 2.0

    ReplyDelete
  4. Read the App carefully. The word "outliers" is not a quote! It may be the the app's interpretation of what he said flavored by their own bias.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The APP quoted HIM as saying it. He may have said it in Lashon Kodesh and said they are Chutz Lamachane which is the same meaning and the roshei yeshiva should ban him from ever speaking in public on behalf of the community.

      Delete
  5. Can anyone who was there verify what weisberg said in public about the 13 couples who were arrested.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Federal Bureau of InvestigationJuly 20, 2017 at 7:03 AM

    Good Morning to all attendees of this great rally:

    We saw you! Now we know where to look.... so thank you for coming.

    ReplyDelete
  7. IM in shock that we as a community can gather publicly over one thousand people and let the speaker bashmutz members of the community and throw them under the bus. No one was moche?????
    Are we so self centered and numb?????

    ReplyDelete
  8. Now its understood why the Rosh Yeshiva Harav Yeruchem shlita was adamantly opposed to this gathering.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He was opposed to this gathering for one simple reason. Since when when do people gather when someone does an avla. If You do an avla you adress it(not publicly) and life goes on. Any gemara kup who allegedly did this avla knows what he has to do to rectify it.and if he doesnt know , he knows who can help him with out making a public spectacle out of it.
      Everyone is complaining why the media made a whole show of it while the vadd is now doing the same thing. The media will feed off of this and do a whole repeat spectacle. Where is weisbergs saichel?

      Delete
    2. Harold HerskowitzJuly 20, 2017 at 9:33 AM

      Weisberg seichel, like the rest of the VAAD (excluding a few holy individuals) begins and ends at their wallets.
      They do nothing for the klal. Then when they realize it looks bad, they try and make some lame event to look relevant. Like a student that quickly opens his book during study time when the teacher walks by.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous is right - the APP featured this on the homepage - what kind of news is this?! But its another a great opportunity for everyone to bash Lakewood - "look they're so crooked they need to have a huge seminar how not to cheat!" etc.

      Delete
  9. ויחנו בתחת durten

    ReplyDelete
  10. Someones gotta go to the app and let them know that the vadd ,especially weisberg, shankey and cutler do not represent the people of lakewood and they should not be quoting them as such. They are a self appointed group who look out for themselves only.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Now comments in app are questioning if the anti semitic attack was a fake.
    How did the vsndals know which cars are Jewish owned.
    Who places a sheet nicely on AZ holocaust memorial that no one knew existed. A Vandalism attack is usually with spray paint and damage.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Please learn our English language. "Outlier" is not an inherently negative word; it simply means not typical of the average member of the larger group--in this case, frumme yidden. For example, a ten-year-old boy who know Shas by heart is an outlier, for 99.99% of ten-year-olds don't know Shas by heart.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry the word was uttered in a negative light throwing them under the bus. Let's not mince any words here. Only a mamzer is lo Bo bkahal. These couples who are innocent until proven other wise and even then are not to publicly maligned by the so called leaders.

      OUTLIER.
      something that lies outside the main body or group that it is a part of, as a cow far from the rest of the herd, or a distant island belonging to a cluster of islands:

      someone who stands apart from others of his or her group, as by differing behavior, beliefs, or religious practices:

      Delete
  13. This is the face of our leadership

    Fight against a shul. Check
    Ignore psak Bes Din. Check
    Mesira to Dyfus. Check.

    ReplyDelete
  14. You forgot to mention:
    Blow with the wind. Check.
    Only listen to one side. Check.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I'm sorry. You guys are out of line. All that was said ,was that if anybody did something wrong ,they are not representative of the klal. Many gedolim in ,the past have said the same words in similar situations.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Name one gadol. Stop throwing in gedolim to cover up for what was said last night in public.
      Anyone v who was there knows exactly what was said and who it was said about.

      Delete
    2. Name one gadol.

      Both Rav Elyah Meir Bloch and Rav Shimon Scwab said that those who engage in fraud aren't Orthodox Jews when asked how was an "Orthodox" Jew dishonest.

      Delete
  16. Those accused are not outliers, but the same as all of us. We live together, work together, share the same values, and would make the same choices for our families. We must support each other and stand together.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Would you say the same about an alleged child molester? Or is an alleged ganif different?

      Delete
    2. They are allegations not proof. We are a community and must stand together.

      Delete
    3. Sorry bud ,We are no longer a community. Communities have a community shul. Communities have a community school. Communities have a community rabbi/ rav.Communities have a community food store etc. Lakewood has non of the above. Lakewood is for all intent's and purposes a city.

      Delete
  17. Just because one attended this wonderful event does not mean that your off the hook.

    As they say a little too little – a little too late.

    The real question is why would anyone need an event like this to be honest? Honest in business. Honest with others. Honest with your family. Most of all honest with yourself.
    Lets not even talk about honest with outsiders as in the Government or with non religious people such neighbors etc.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. wake yourself up & let me welcome you to the generation of dishonesty & corruption. Its sad how corrupt the world has become R"L

      welcome also to the generation of self-centeredness & instant gratification where everything is ME ME & ONLY ME R"L

      i'm ashamed to be living in such a corrupt generation & such a corrupt town that is known worldwide for its torah but the role model leader politicians & vaad members are so dishonest & corrupt just caring for themselves so they could pocket gelt for themselves. a true community VAAD does things on behalf of the ENTIRE COMMUNITY & whats best for everyone & not just for a tiny few.

      separate wake up detective news for everyone below that i wouldnt even post on TLS cause i already know they wouldn't post it:
      yesterdays news of 2 new traffic light on cedarbrigde & american avenue.... are really being put up as light towards the upcoming mall that is being built by dishonest people behind everyone back covered up by the trees on pine street. go see for yourself what & where they are holding in the mall. THE MALL PLANS WERE NEVER CANCELLED as everyone was fooled into thinking WE BETTER ALL WAKE UP & MAKE A MACHAA BEFORE ITS FULLY COMPLETE & TOO LATE

      such a chillul Hashem of frum torah yidden so dishonest & corrupt.... doing things with lies behind YOUR BACK & not giving a crap about you

      Delete
    2. This is nothing to do with dishonesty. The rules are made for regular American people. Someone needs to explain them in our language for our culture. For example, the concept of a Kollel check does not exist in America. We have no way of classifying it. Someone has to tell us that it's closest relative is a scholarship and that is how to classify it. A yeshiva is not a college or a mechanic shop. For governmental purposes we call it a college.
      This is nothing to do with honesty or dishonesty.

      Delete
    3. Hey bro, even "you" dont belive
      in your own hock. You make zeeerrrro sense. Firstly kollel has been around for over 50 years so the government knows very very well what it is. Secondly, kollel has nothing to do with anything here because those who were accused were all working . Non are in kollel. Stop making a fool of us and yourself.

      Delete
    4. Alumni Beis EliyahuJuly 20, 2017 at 8:30 PM

      They don't care if we save them money on not sending to public school so in ur mind u can justify however For government purposes u need to follow the governments rules

      Delete
    5. There are some reading comprehension issues here. The speech was not about those arrested. It was to explain those who are eligible how to apply. Honesty is not the issue. How do we classify Kollel checks is. And that is what they spoke about, not those who were arrested (some of whom are in Kollel, and were arrested for kleinkeiten, paperwork etc.).

      And the money savings from not sending to public school is absolutely irrelevant and not part of the point

      Honest people need the guidance. This was not about dishonesty

      Delete
  18. You are playing a dangerous game by saying that you know 100 per cent that everybody in town would do exactly the same thing as everybody accused. If chv it turns out that some of them are proven to have done things shelo kehogen ,then you are indicting the entire kehila. It is definitely fine to say innocent until proven guilty and let the justice system take its course. Its not correct to paint the entire kehila into a corner that you can't get out of if things don't go the way you think.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous 1:37 you have already indicted an entire Kehila. You are Vaad guy who can't feel for another's tzarah you trust the newspaper and accuse the innocent.

      Delete
    2. I feel a lot more for another's tzoroh than you. I am actually doing something to actively help some of the people in question as opposed to armchair commenters.

      Delete
    3. so am I but i dont go advertising it. Its easy to dismiss anyone with a different opinion as bloggers and arm chair commenters

      Delete
    4. Well you or the other commenters dismiss anybody opinion other that theirs as " you must be a vaad member " . They can't imagine that anybody has a different opinion without calling him names.

      Delete
  19. Disgusting fit the vaad lrrc to use this sad episode to promote themselves.
    Yeah din vyesh dayan.

    ReplyDelete
  20. http://www.bhol.co.il/121905/התקשורת-בארהב-החרדים-בלחץ-ארגנו-כנס.html

    ReplyDelete
  21. Why wasn't there enough time for the professionals to address the participants?
    It's orchestrated that by the vaad, lrrc, Weisberg etc.
    So first went the tilim (which is said in yeshiva by every tefillah)
    Then came the Mussar shmuez from Reb Dovid, etc.
    All on the expense of not allowing the professionals sufficient time to address the participants-
    Shame again on them.

    ReplyDelete
  22. To the Vaad and their cohorts ויחנו בתחת

    ReplyDelete
  23. Off topic for a minute. Did anyone from lakewood recently get a warning from public works regarding mundane complaints such as card board boxes sticking upwards by a mere few inches over the limit of 12 inches? Or card board boxes which weren't compressed enough before putting it in the yellow bin?
    Letter was signed by m. holder

    ReplyDelete
  24. AK met with roshei Chaburah and told them to tell the olam to show up. The Vaads PR Machine opportunism at its best.
    Play into everyone's fear force them to come
    write up lies and Puff articles posted on your own controlled website.
    Write how it was a smashing success and the person who called innocent youngeleit bad apples was visibly pained.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Harold HerskowitzJuly 20, 2017 at 10:38 PM

      Speaking of PR . When a VAAD, A COMMUNITY ADVOCACY GROUP, AND IT'S COMMUNITY "LEADERS" need to hire a public relations firm to promote the idea that they are relevant, and caring, perhaps it is time to call it quits.
      I can't wait to see the community outreach ideas the firm comes up with.

      Delete
    2. Thats all they have been doing every other post on the Lakewood poop is about how great the VAAD is complimenting their great work.
      Did you see the one about Dr. Choen and Obamacare, so now the vaad is convincing us idiots that they have a say in the senate!!
      They are pulling out anything imaginative to continue and fool the gullible and temimusdikeh residents

      Delete