Sunday, July 16, 2017

Letter in TVOL


53 comments:

  1. Sorry but without real names that can verified, this will just be considered another cynical advertisement for Amudim.

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  2. I find it very disingenuous on behalf of the Voice to publish this very vague letter. Is this story even true?
    Did it happen in Lakewood?
    was it verified?
    Its obvious someone here is pushing an agenda.

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  3. See here for more
    https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=45067

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  4. Is the family currently sitting shiva can we go give support?
    May Hashem comfort the family.

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  5. I think i know who this story is talking about and if its about them than it is a true story

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  6. Voice certainly did not verify.

    Eitherway true or not, these anonymous type letters are motze shem ra/loshon hora on all our mosodos, and should not be published. Broad-stroking and besmirching all our mosodos is not the same as having uncomfortable conversations.

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  7. Never happened. Propoganda for some agenda.

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  8. Do not get "pinned" on the details of the story. They are completely made up.

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  9. Obviously they can't publish real names why can't people take this for face value? It's such a sad story we can learn from this story to avoid c'very this story repeating itself. Please be more sensitive.

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  10. Even if true, the point is to blame the system and blame our chinuch. If you look at case by case basis unfortunately there are lots of underlying issues with these girls or boys R'L. It's easy for these self righteous askanim to besmirch and put the blame on our communities. It's frankly disgusting that these organizations use unfortunate death and suicide to push their agenda.
    They ignore the fact of the large amount of opioid that are killing thousands of youth across the country it's easy to point fingers and say see I told you so.

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  11. Such a letter should have been signed by a competent rav verifying it's authenticity. Where is the responsibility?
    Today the Lakewood Scoop had a letter that attacked the Toms River Police Dept. Where is the seichel of these editors. New residents have worked so hard to make good inroads in a tough situation these letters undermine all that hard work. The scoop pulled the article but it never should have been posted in the first place.


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    1. You can see the article that was on the poop by clicking the link

      http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dWeM_M6Xue4J:www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2017/07/reader-submitted-the-toms-river-double-standard.html+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

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  12. Doesn't matter if this story is true. What's true is that ppl do call the schools with such threats.
    Lo saamod al dam reiecha.

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    1. Quite right!
      This story is not the issue. Such a story can happen, and when someone is about to make such a phone call, let them stop and imagine such an outcome and then realize what their actions can cause.
      And a menahel who will succumb to pressure from parents has lost the right to call himself a leader. He is a filleted spineless wuss.

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    2. yeah anonymous internet commentors are the truly brave ones.

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    3. Why is it only an avlah when it's gone in schools and not in Shuls? What happened to lo saamod al dam rai'echa there?

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  13. the rule should be simple. any parent that calls up to complain about another student. the parents own kid should be thrown out of the school. middah keneged middah

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  14. Are you saying that if you know a student has already started watching bad movies and going bad things and talks to boys in 7th and 8th grade grade and has already ruined other kids and the high school is not aware,that you should not bring it to their attention. There are documented cases of such kids getting into high school because the elementary schools lied ,and then these kids made other temimis kids go off the derech rl.

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    1. The parents who would do such a thing usually have a sense of entitlement borne of their yichus or money that will help them get in somewhere else.

      I have an idea. When the schools have to divide the children amongst themselves, they can make a condition that if any parent tries to leave because of their willingness to take a certain child, the other schools will back them by refusing those children. The other schools will gain by not having to accept a child they don't want and the Menahalim get to have more power, without yachsanim telling them what to do.

      This horse trading in human souls is getying me nauseous, but that's the world we live in.

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  15. Even if there is some truth ,it is very embellished. First off ,parents do not threaten to take their kids out of school especially in Lakewood where there is no other school to go to. They might tell the hanholo but its very rare to threaten. Second ,they will not tell for scholastic issues ,only real frumkeit issues that could seriously affect other kids. Third of all ,it almost never happens that some is thrown out the first day of school after getting accepted. In rare cases they might not get accepted in the first place ,but never to get thrown out after an acceptance.

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  16. "Beware of baby nurses: mother in lkwd just came to dr shanik w 16 day old baby that baby not moving any joints dr shanik sent her straight to chop baby had 16 fractures!!!.. baby nurse from frum agency in lkwd was abusive to baby!!!!nurse coming back now from her day off and police surrounding port authority waiting for her" Baby is in the ICU

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    1. It's a rumor going around on watsapp any truth to this can anyone confirm?

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    2. Rumor already proven false on Whatsapp.

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    3. It's actually very true

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  17. Hashem yerachem! Name to Daven?

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  18. It's true. Girl OD'd

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    1. It's terrible no one is denying that frum boys and girls have R'L taken their life or Overdose d. Do we know what the situation was. Who introduced them to drugs? What were the issues? Where they aware of the dangers involved? There are so many factors and unknowns but they blame th ed schools and the chinuch system.

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  19. Of course. Its always the schools fault. Kids do the worst things to themselves and to others. But it's always the schools fault.

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  20. i dont know the specifics of this case but i did listen to rabbi yy speech which i assume is in the this same person. and even if someone had to be removed from school and was a bad influence their still human beings and need to be treated as such. they also might be chozer betshuva .even after klal yisroel was oved seven avodah zarahs they still were accepted by k'bh. kol hamerachem al habrios marachemim alav min hashamayim

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  21. In my 8th grade class in yeshiva many years ago the three kids that were going otd and up to no good are now choshuve yungeleit and mechaber seforim.

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  22. However some of the top guys and meyuchsim are no longer religious

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    1. Those days were different you can't bring a rayah from then.

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  23. If this could be said about Lakewood moisdois, that in itself shows how low we have stooped, R"L.

    And if it is true, none of can say ידינו לא שפכו הדם הזה

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  24. By the Satmar Rav, Reb Yoel, Z"L and by the Chazon Ish, Z"L, and Reb Ahron Leib, Shteinman, Shlita- the Girl would remain in the school, and the principal would be fired.

    And the baalei gaivah, I pitty the children growing up those homes.

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  25. In my days in school , the street was different and kids did not influence others like today. It was basically a question of are you going to college or not. Today with technology and the shmutts in the street , I am aware of cases where kids who were exposed to technology and shmuts ,destroyed many other kids in their class who became open to shmuts and basically went off. That is why parents are so scared of the influences of kids who are so exposed. Especially as they enter high school ,the kids who are exposed don't really want to be in the high schools that are strict and only are there because their parents forced them or they are siblings and have no,other school to go to. Then they start acting up and spitefully try to find other kids who they can influence to become like them so they can feel good that others are also like them. Its a totally different world than it was 30 40 years ago. A kid sees more shmutz in the street in one day or on a smartphone in one hour ,than kids saw in their lifetime 40 years ago.

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  26. I was accepted to Yeshivas Keren Hatorah and then a few parents called the Yeshiva before the school year that if they keep me they'll pull out their own kids. Kudos to Reb Moshe Rabinowitz Zt"l he refused to overturn my acceptance.

    Oh and BTW I'm a frum Yungerman and I never smoked a joint.... I do have a Smartphone with a filter though.

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    1. Maybe you should get a joint with a filter.

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    2. i think it might be a good idea for you to try pot.

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  27. Everyone has their half bit idea about how things should be, yet they are the same ones willing to scream 'Daas Torah' at everyone else. Rav Shach and להבחל"ח Rav Shteinman were adamant about this point, that we have to accept those children and ignore the risks. Yes, there may be some risks for those other children whose parents have not done an adequate job of building up their self esteem and happiness, and they may be vulnerable to influences. That does not permit the school or the public to shirk their obligations to every single child in town.
    If you want to flaunt your bad middos, fine. But don't claim Daas Torah is with you. It is not.

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    1. So you are claiming that any bochur will be accepted to Orchis Torah. Rev Aron Leibs Shlites Yeshiva. It happens to be the hardest Yeshiva in Beni Brak to get into. So obviously you have no clue what Dass Torah is. A bochur who is not tops in learning and is a little weak on tires shomayim has zero chance of getting in there. So stop spouting nonsense

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    2. So basically you are claiming that Rav Shteinman shlita says that you have to accept everyone in even if the child will corrupt the rest of the students but if his parents chas vesholom voted for Etz then the child cannot be accepted into school? Something doesn't add up!

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    3. ליטוואק פון בודאפעסטJuly 18, 2017 at 2:47 AM

      Boidem mit klotz.
      Reb Aaron Leib said that the risk of influences is not a cheshbon. What does that have to do with eitz or orchos torah? There are other cheshbonos in accepting a child, just influence is not a cheshbon.

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    4. Shtus vehevel.If there are chrshbonis in accepting a child then who says what the chrshbonis are ? In R A L case ,there were no cheshbonos and the child was fine and 5 years old. Other than that ,everybody can make their cheshbonos,whether its Etz, or attach in learning ,or shvach in yiras shomayim etc etc.

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    5. ליטוואק פון בודאפעסטJuly 18, 2017 at 6:30 PM

      Etz has nothing to do with anything. A person can stop being an eitz'nik and all is fine. A person cannot stop being Sefardi or scholastically weak.

      The Klal has a responsibility to educate all children. If there are risks involved, that is the price of your responsibility.

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  28. Even in Lakewood ,kids are rarely thrown out of a school. That is very very rare.Kids who are exposed might not be accepted in the first place ,but that's a lot different than being thrown out. That almost never happens.

    Believe me ,by the Satmar Rov,they did not accept every single kid especially if they had a good chance of bringing down others. And the same by the Chofetz Chaim and Chazon Ish. In Rab Aron Leib shlitas Yeshiva in Bnei Beak ,it is extremely hard to get in and they turn away many bochrim ,so stop spewing this nonsense that the gedolim accept everybody and if not it is gaavah. They accept very few. The clip you are referring to was about a 5 year old nursery kid from the community who was the same as everybody else who somebody didn't like the look of the parent. He never said that about older kids who are clearly problematic for the type of school or Yeshiva ,that their parents want to try and force them into.

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  29. If the story is true then those involved are tremendous baaley avalah. However being that the story eliminates and alters specific details as the caution after it warns, it is no longer a fair discussion about the school involved. The situation cannot be dealt with and discussed without knowing the facts. For example if the reason the parents and school didn't want her was not because of scholastic issues but rather because of the bad influence she had on others in the past then the situation is a completely different one.

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  30. It is totally ridiculous to think that parents would call about scholastic issues. This story is so fake its pathetic. I know people who run schools. Parents do not call about scholastic issues. In the rare cases where they call its about serious frumkeit issues. In 99 per cent of the cases the schools do not listen to the parents.

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  31. I saw a psak from Rav Chaim Kanyevski in writing. A certain head of a Yeshiva katana gave good information about one of his bochrim and the bochur was accepted to a prestigious Yeshiva gedolah. A while later the first menahel found out information about his Talmid which he now realized made this bochur unsuitable for that Yeshiva. He asked and Rav Chaim paskened that he must call the new yeshiva and divulge the information about the bochur so as not to send this bochur to a Yeshiva that is not suitable for him.

    This attitude that some people have ,that no matter what , every girl or bochur is suitable for any Yeshiva or high school ,is total nonsense. On the contrary ,there are many cases here in Lakewood where kids are destroyed because their parents send them to high schools that are not suitable for them. The parents are warned not to send their kids to schools that are too frum or too scholastic for their kids but the parents are stubborn and want the prestige of the frum or scholastic school. The end result in most cases is unfortunately very bad ,with the kids being unhappy at best and going off the derrch rl at worst.

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  32. There was a video clip about a primary kid that had nothing wrong with him where Rev Aron Leib said gaavah. All the posters and commenters have taken that clip totally out of context and try to learn from there that Reb A L holds that if you don't accept anybody into a school ,even into high school where you can see the child and see if they are suitable , then it is all gaavah. That is nonsense as all Yeshivas guided by the gedolim have a strict acceptance process and font just accept anybody if they think he us not suited for them.

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  33. Its so interesting how people are so blind and full,of negious. They agree that even R AL Mosdos have cheshbonos in who they accept ,if somebody father is from etz he is not accepted ,if he is not tops in learning he is not accepted,if he is not perfect yiras shomayim he is not accepted,if the Rosh Yeshiva feels he is not a fit for the Yeshiva he is not accepted. But these posters decided that R A L said that in Lakewood if an older child is problematic and may influence others then he has to be accepted and if not its gaavah. So krum.

    Everybody knows that R AL was referring to a younger child who is the same like everybody else and somebody decided that the father has a different type of hat or something like that. That he didn't like. But any legitimate cheshbonis especially by a 14 year old where you can see the issues, is not anywhere like that.

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  34. R AL said that children of etz are not accepted because they,might influence others. Why is that different from a girl that has exposure to smartphones or technology or goyishe music or not fine clothing etc etc. Those influences are not as important as etz ? Give me a break. R AL would absolutely agree that schools have the right to be selective especially when it comes to these serious influences.

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