Tuesday, May 9, 2017

Color war at the master plan meeting?

See list of speakers at bottom of post.
They came with a plan. The developers builders planners contractors and their friends came with a strong force to represent themselves. They came with their wives and extended families. They strategically all stood together in the back of the room deciding  who should get up and speak. They clapped very loud when one of theirs got up to speak. It appeared that they represent the frum majority of town and created a divisive environment against the senior community who were all seated and others in the room. A courageous young lady got up and spoke on behalf of the majority of the town, she said most people are putting their children to sleep and cant come down to these meeting. She called out the small group in the back of the room who are there for themselves and not for the majority of the town. She begged the committee to respect the needs of the majority of Lakewood who care for their children and dont want the traffic, the density and the dangerous infastructure. The chairman did a good job keeping things in order but the point had to be made clearly That group is only representing themselves and not of the Lakewood tzibbur.
See Video HERE
1:00 – Flancanboaum speaks 
10:00 – Bill Hobday makes a few suggestions
28:43 – developer’s paid audience claps 
35:06 – resident suggests we should charge for garbage collection for private schools which will bring a $500,000 a year. Crowd applauds. 
35:50- Moshe Zeines makes suggest the parks have a separate fund
44:26 – resident attacks Committeeman Delia 
48:31- resident asks to allow Public Works to do their job. Speaks of mismanagement at the parks dept.
55:54 – josh Schmukler speaks on behalf of his fellow developers 
56:30- FAA rocks the house. The crowd goes wild. 

1:03:39 – Shmuel Rabinowitz gets a mix of applause and boos. 
1:10:25 – Bryan Flannery on  FAA. Crowd yells ‘developer’ ‘lives inJ ackson’. 
1:14:17 – resident complains she cannot shop in Lakewood due to heavy traffic. 
1:20:15 – Mrs. Kayla Cohen. Mentions that mothers cannot come out to speak up in the evenings as they are putting their kids to sleep. Speaks against the traffic and thanks the seniors. Developer’s paid audience jeered in a cruel manner. 
1:23:17 – Mrs. Cohen says we need to discuss breathing spaces not open spaces. Attacks developers. 
1:28:40 – Ahron Mansur speaks on behalf of his fellow developers
1:36:00 – Aaron Hirsch speaks 
2:20:52 – Mrs. Vivian Friedman speaks about Yeshiva area how it’s very congested which she enjoys. 
2:29:00 – FAA - Hasidim are purchasing all new homes. AK said that by midcentury Hassidim will take over the town. By Hassidim the woman do not drive and therefore there will be less traffic. But sidewalks will be needed. Forgot to mention the need to build more mikvahs. 
2:38:40 – resident yells that town became Meshuga 
2:42:00 - Aaron Hirsch speaks about the need for a grid

2:54:00 – Dovid Bender speaks from his heart 


  1. I watched part ofit, could not attend, I was tied up, but it wouldn't have matyered.

    It was a disgusting charade. With the most self serving, and destructive members of this community on full display.

    The final straws was listening to a woman complain about traffic, the defend the density and call for more bike paths, shame on her, you recognize the problem, admit to it, yet keep contributing to it.

    A land owner in town, not from our community, who owns a land near Neimen Rd. that she wants to sell with high density approvals, talks about the inevitability of more density, pretending as if she cares, when all she wants is to increase her property value before she sells and moves out.

    Then a paid engineer gets up and says the only way to solve congestion....is with MORE development.

    It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. In the old days, these people would have been run out of town with torches and pitchforks.

    Don't think for a second that the members of this committee did not know who these people are and what they represent.

    They are in on the charade.

  2. No busha at all this is the mantra of our elected officials and askanim let's see how we can continue to fool the gullible tzibbur. Hiding under the banner of daas torah and other non sense. what a shame that we must suffer the consequences of their self interest

  3. Vivian- you want high density and hundreds of people living in your daled amos, yet you also want serenic bike paths for your teenager. Love it. Hogwash. Move to Manhatten, over there they figured it out. High density and horse and buggies.

    1. hasVivian ever come to any meeting before?
      looked like she was used as a pawn for family investments..As always follow the $$$$

  4. "Developers are the only ones who care about open space, because they are the only people putting in playgrounds. Evroy deveoment has a playground"
    1- I can cont on my hands how many develoments that don't have playgrounds but I would run out of fingers
    2-If they care so much of open space why a few years ago did they try to have that you could make the playground in the rainwater run off (drain dich)
    3- There used to be a park on 7th and Princeton now it is an aptment billding. Where is the open space?
    4-Is parking lots open space? The developers are now turning a park on 4th and Princeton into a parking spot
    5-A few months ago there was talk about moving the headstart from 8th into Ridge and County Line. There is a park owned by the town in front of the headstart If it gets turned into houses were would the open space be?
    Maybe we should stop ripping up parks that are all ready there

  5. http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2017/05/school-district-looking-to-hire-new-security-team.html

    heil to the chief, i'll be shocked if anyone else gets it. the fix is in.

  6. There are actually enough areas of town that are designated environmentally sensitive where we can have bike paths and sitting areas. Plus there are enough county parks within the area. So its not New York. Not every body has to agree with you. We understand your point but you don't seem to fargin anybody to have an opinion that does not conform to yours.

    1. The county parks are all jam packed in the summer, and their are no neighborhood parks, no where where boys can go play basketball or football

    2. Maybe it is because anyone who talks to anyone in town is upset about congestion. So when people post anonymously online, with an opinion that is in opposition with every person in Lakewoods personal views, it makes you wonder what there motivation is.

  7. What I don't get is why, anyone other than someone who is out to make money off of it, would actually WANT to live in a crowded place. Lakewood started out with wide open spaces and little traffic. If you didn't like it, dont move here, find an area that is congested and live there.

  8. You make no sense. Boro,park is congested. Manhattan is congested. Forget about driving in Manhattan. The streets are so clogged you can't even walk. Yet the apartments go for 50 million dollars. Every place that people want to live in is congested. If you really don't like congestion then move to Long Island that is not so in demand. Same with Lakewood. Its second to Jerusalem in demand by Orthodox families. Its unethical to tell new families that they can't have the same opportunity that you had.

    1. I agree. Especially considering that anybody can effectively live in Lakewood and have space by moving to Jackson or Toms River. So there are choices in life. Want space then move to the Lakewood neighborhoods called Jackson and Toms River. Want to be in the middle of things and get a new up to date house and don't care as much about space or congestion and lot size ,then stay in Lakewood proper. There are choices for everybody. We don't need to make a civil war out of this .

    2. Hogwash! Right now we have a major traffic and lack of infrastructure issue in town. Brookly, Manhattan, etc is not a good example; they have mass transit.

      Regardless, the overwhelming majority of Lakewood (over 95% I bet - if you put it as a referendum question on the ballot) are against increasing density BEFORE the traffic/infra issues are solved. When and if the traffic is solved, we can have an honest debate about the density by itself - but not before then! That part is not disputable.
      So why do we have people in power who's views on this issue are not in-line with the overwhelming majority of residents? Answer: money, backroom deals, and other forms of corruption, unethical and outright illegal activities. If this were not a frum town you'd likely have a number of them in jail (vhameivin yovin). They take advantage of that fact and continue trampling on the public with impunity. Sooner or later it will backfire and blow up. Then we'll have yom tefilos for the shrekliche gezeiros etc etc.

      A revolution is coming sooner or later and the township committee puppets days' are numbered. It's not a matter of if, but when.

    3. You have some nerve telling people that they should sacrifice their quality of life or move out so you can make a buck, or new communities from Brooklyn can move into Lakewood.

      Why tell people to move out to make room for new people who want to change the town, why don't the "new" people settle somewhere else. This isn't about the Lakewood Yungeleit, the majority of them are no longer buying in Lakewood.

      For every story Like Manhattan, there are hundreds of areas Like Camden, Trenton and Southeast Philly, where someone at one point thought high density was a good idea. Those areas will never recover.

    4. Long Island is in demand, they just happen to have strict zoning laws.

  9. I am not from Brooklyn. I live here a lit longer than most big you and I have married children that can not afford Toms River or even A large house in Jackson. I want them to live in Lakewood. I was here first and I am entitled to feel that way whether you agree or not.

    1. lol..But you can afford to pay 700K for a duplex in a lakewood. Also can you do a chesed with thousands of youngeleit that are looking for affordable housing in lkwd and show them where you bought for your children.

  10. Duplexes are not 700. They are 559 to 579. The basement rental even if you discount it to 950 because of the weakl rental market ,is the equivalent of paying for 180,000 mortgage at today's rates. So my effective cost is about 400,000 as compared to a house in Jackson without a rental. My cousins just bought in Jackson for 445,000 a house that is not big ,needs a lot of work. So I think we are getting a better deal here in Lakewood. You can't stomach that some people disagree with you so you throw around numbers like 700,000 when you know good and well that those numbers are only near Yeshiva or in certain chadidishe areas. The average duplex for yeshivaleit is not 700,000 and you know that but choose to spew your lies just to make others look bad.

    1. "The basement rental even if you discount it to 950 because of the weakl rental market " - what are you smoking?! Rentals are going for under $700 - you wish you can get anywhere near $950. Shows how out of touch you are and likely just a developer/VAAD shill.

  11. This talk of wanting your children near you is a talking point created by the developers. Living in Jackson or TR is closer or the same distance as Flatbush to BP.The previous generation children did not move to Boro park they moved nearby to fltbush Williamsburg etc..
    Many Vaad members children moved out to Jackson 3-4 years aho.
    Additionaly no one can afford lakewood it's a attempt to pull at the heartstrings while bringing young couples from Brooklyn moving them away and even further from their parents.

  12. I didn't say it's affordable. But if you stop building ,then the prices of a duplex will go up to 750,000 instead of the 579 to 589 it is now.

  13. Harold HerskowitzMay 9, 2017 at 6:00 PM

    The developers compared the growth of mid sized cities to the growth of Lakewood? Austin, Seattle, Portland? All of those cities spent hundreds of millions on infrastructure development . Highways four lanes wide , mass transit (not L buses that use the same congested roads as the cars stuck in traffic), parks, museums, recreation and downtown shopping districts that are larger than Lakewood itself. We have 25 square miles to work with and two main roads that are two lanes wide in most places. If you want to build large developments you need to spend hundreds of millions on infrastructure.since that will never happen, you cannot build any more large developments. It's very simple
    Let's put this to bed once and for all
    if you are a Democrat

    if you are Republican and not listening to Shenkys chain call.

  14. Do the math. A duplex at 580 with a 1000 basement is cheaper than a 450,000 house in Jackson with 3 bedrooms and a treife kitchen. You like to spin Jackson as cheaper because you want to spin your views ,but the math is wrong. I know somebody who bought in Jackson got 2400 square feet of an old house that needs another 60,000 to modernize and he paid 435,000. Yes he has a nice backyard but its a lot smaller house than a new duplex and his monthly costs are higher. So stop the spin.

    1. The $1000 per month when you do have a tenant will have to first pay for the taxes that is higher in Lakewood.

  15. The fact 8s that Jackson and Tons River are no longer affordable at all. The monthly cost for a house the size if Lakewoid duplex is much higher and unaffordable. Lakewood duplexes and condos are also high but more affordable because of the basement. Even with the glut if basements it still makes your payments lower than in surrounding towns. Unless you don't mind living in a 3 bedroom 1 and a half bath 50 year old ranch or bilevel,then you can be in at the same monthly payment as a duplex or maybe a bit lower. Not everybody wants a small 50 year old house that us falling apart and needs an addition as your family grows.

    1. bla bla bla..
      The fact is that a few hundred youngeleit just moved into Jackson and another thousand are on the way.

      The fact is that they cant afford the big beautiful Duplex in Lakewood

      The fact is that your probably a developer or connected to one who lured brooklynites to live here on the backs of the youngeleit that are forced to move away from yeshiva

      The fact is that youngeleit are willing to live in a 50 yr old ranch because thats what they can afford at the moment not all of us have rich parents and could do with a little less gashmiyus

      The fact is that IYH as their families grow hashem will provide for them

      The fact is that we sit n traffic all day wasting precious time because of the density without the infastructure to support it.

      The fact is that MONEY Blinds you.

    2. I don't know whose side you are on and frankly I don't care. But, as someone who, after much deliberation, bought in Jackson, your numbers and info are completely misrepresented. I bought (relatively recently) for a little over 300k a nice ranch well kept and updated. Yes it is smaller and older but which yungerman needs a 3600 sq foot house when I grew up noone had that. And many of these new townhouses are put up so fast and cheap they will be falling apart before my house in Jackson. Not to mention, the backyard my kids can run around in without having to worry about them getting hit by someone backing out of their driveway

    3. I would rather live in a 2 br shed in jackson than live in a duplex in an overcrowded development in the middle of what should be an industrial park. Or within daled amos of a parking lot of a gas station or shopping mall, or within earshot of a stadium. It boggles my mind that people actually shell out good money for these. When they get a little older they will regret it.

  16. The fact is that you are so farbissen,that you can't fathom that even one person thinks not like you. If somebody has a different opinion than you ,then he must be crazy.

    1. The fact is that your not sticking to a substantive argument. Please stick to the facts. Speak to everyone in Brookwood and ask them why lakewood is not an option. And BTW I love being farbissen I would not be happy if I would have nothing to be farbissen about.

  17. Sure. You want me to talk to the people who bought in Jackson when it was still cheap. Well I have relatives who did that. I also know people who are buying there now and are complaining that the prices went up so much that its basically cheaper in Lakewood. Any place where our oilam moves to ,eventually becomes too expensive. One of my relatives kids had a contract in Jackson and they did the math with what it would cost to fix up the house and decided in the end to buy a duplex in Lakewood. So Jackson is a great thing for some,and it us keeping Lakewood prices from going through the roof,but its not so cheap anymore. ,especially in the places where people are buying. Yes if you are willing to walk an hour to a minyan,then you can still find bargains,but as soon as there us a crowd in the neighborhood ,the prices go up by 50,000 or more.

  18. "they did the math with what it costed to fix up a house in Jackson and decided to buy in Lakewood..."
    My wife did the math with what it costs to cook supper and decided to eat out.
    If making a Jackson house livable to your highness entails gutting every inch and rebuilding with Brooklyn hasagos, you belong in Lakewood.

  19. I find your comment repulsive. Firstly, what is wrong with a 3 bedroom starter home on a decent sized lot. It is the real estate marketing that has made everyone think they need to give up their sanity to live in a congested development, and require a tenant, so they can have a 300sq ft. home

    After 120, they aren't going to ask you how many sq. ft. your house is. Aside for that, there are only a couple of areas where houses in Jackson and TR are comparable or higher then Lakewood, (unless you are talking about some of the 4k and 5k sq ft, mansions.

    Those hot areas are in a bubble, TR and Jackson are very large. Once people spread out a little more, the homes will level off in the hot neighborhoods as well, they already have.

  20. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 3 bedroom starter home. I think,its very commendable if everybody would live with 16 kids in 2 rooms like in meah sharim. That is the ideal and we should live like that. But its not honest to say that housing is so much cheaper in Jackson when you are comparing a 3 bedroom starter home to a 5 bedroom 5 bath new construction. There are 3 bedroom starter homes in parts of Lakewood that are also much cheaper than a new duplex with finished basement. The fact is that I know that most buyers of these starter homes are putting money into them and fixing them up somewhat,not gutting them. And by the time they do that , the cost is not so,low anymore. We are not talking about ideals. We are talking about comparing apples to apples.

  21. Not everybody wants to live in a town where it is practically impossible to make a legal Shul and when people daven in homes on Shabbos the Mayor is called to spy on them and intimidate them. Some people don't mind and some people do.

  22. The meeting is very simple a few real estate agents and other from th special interest came and said we want density. Of course they don't live up the 9 or have any of the other problems that others have who actually suffer through lack of infrastructure. For them $$$ greed trumps all. There is no reason for density , build a regular single family on a 10,000 sq ft house, no more duplexs and improve the roads. Until then no one wants more density.

  23. Just my take on what is going on:
    1.The committee members want more density
    2. At the density sub committee meeting the overwhelming public input was for no density. The committee was afraid to recommend density when all the public speakers demanded no density so they recommended no more density other than the previousplan of 2013. They thought they had backhandedly includes enough density to keep the developers happy.
    3. The devoplopers were very​ unhappy and demanded The master plan include more density. So as to give face to the master plan committee members they came to the meeting a spoke about wanting density on the record. So now if there would be a court case they can always have on record that there were residents speaking for both sides.
    So it doesn't matter how little sense they make. The idea is to give the committee cover to do they want to do anyway.

  24. I saw an ad for a "large" lot of 25x60 for sale, "suitable for a 3 family home" in Brooklyn.

    That is what builders call progress.

  25. I don't know who this anti-jackson guy is but you sound like the anti-semitic commenters on app-you just make stuff up

  26. What exactly did he make up ? I have several relatives that moved to Jackson. They have been brainstorming force while about what to do for a shul. There is no piece of property anywhere near their homes that meets the criteria that would qualify to be approved without a variance. They were told that a variance would never be approved. Its not so much fun living somewhere where there is no outlook to build a shul without fighting under rlupa.

  27. I LIVE in Jackson! I have never walked an hour to davenport -in fact it's a five minute walk! My house cost almost HALF of the cheapest duplexes available in Lakewood and that's including the little I needed to fix up. I have NEVER been intimidated by anyone.
    Yes, we may not have marble countertops or 9 bedrooms for our 3 children. We don't have a separate custom built "study" or French doors and crown moldings. But maybe (surprise, surprise)-WE DON'T CARE