Wednesday, July 27, 2016

The Rishus continues a daily occurrence in lkwd

Another family broken and ripped apart. More living yesomim manufactured with our very own hands. 
Video uploaded on Youtube by First amendment activist

95 comments:

  1. How about posting what he's charged with without just accusing the mother? There are quite a few legitimate reasons to have someone arrested.

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  2. We lost recently in Lakewood young mothers and fathers R"L. Leaving behind Yesomim and broken hearts. We don't know hashems reasons nor do we question. Yet so many homes have been shattered broken with lebedige yesomim. kids watching police remove totty from their house. Fathers arrested locked in Jail. Many of these cases could have been preventable. But we ignore it and shrug our shoulders. The churban that has come from incompetent therapists is not to be described. The control given to certain self appointed askanim who have use law enforcement to land fathers in jail must stop. kids are taught to hate their parents by frum therapy agencies. The foreign hashkafos have invaded our shalom bayis. There are no rabbonim guiding what is going on in Lakewood. There are over 350 kids from these broken homes and all we care about is how can we profit off them and line our pockets with more money. It's time we address this self made mageifa. How is this not a kitrug in shomayim as we keep wrecking Yiddish homes the very foundation of kcal yisrael.

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  3. http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2016/07/lakewood-rabbonim-encourage-women-to.html

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  4. instead of focusing on the mother using law enforcement. lets focus on the father there so many of them that just don't want to give their wives a get and for this its less then they deserve the pain is unbearable to be waiting for your get

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    1. None of these stories are about withholding a Get. These homes are shattered by feminist askanim and Rabbonim who are to chicken to stand behind what they say to do in private. Giving a get is after the husband looses his home his kids his life.

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    2. Any one that has any experience with divorce in the frum community knows there is no Agunah crisis. There is a child custody crisis. The women usually use the children against the father by not allowing him reasonable time with the children. They accuse him of violence or molestation in order to get him out of the house or to get a restraining order against him. After all of this they also expect to get their Get on demand. When the women acts like a mentch the Get is almost always forthcoming. Ask any Rov with experience in this field.

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    3. A get coerced through the authorities is invalid. She would still not be permitted to get married.
      Your decision to blame 'husbands' to make this husband deserve his abuse at the hands of his wife is strange, to say the least.

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    4. No Get is needed, The Rabonim have the power of Torah to paskin that the Woman is free,

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  5. post comments at Yudels blog

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  6. The free therapy is the only ones profiting off this. Every broken home means more $$$.The wife needs it than the kids need it. than they get the kids again to come as a group one for boys one for girls. Now the father needs therapy too how to cope they are laughing all the way to the bank keeping this vicious cycle going. If therapy is recommended it's worth every penny to pay out of pocket and go to a competent professional. The free ones are in training with no experience and no accountability.

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  7. http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2016/07/lakewood-rabbonim-encourage-women-to.html?m=1

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  8. The Magaifa of therapists is destroying lakewood. Not only the free ones at the agencies. Some of the ones that charge alot of money are also no good.

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    1. Are you really that dense??

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    2. Try to articulate what you are trying to say.

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    3. "The magaifa of therapists" Yiddel

      You don't really have to be that bright to see how dumb a statement that is.

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    4. I will not hide behind an anonymous name. Mageyfa of therapists seriously??? No this has to stop we do not have any idea what this man has done, he could have molested his own children, people should not be judging this women without knowing ALL of the facts. Even then it really is no one's business to judge. We as a frum community need to break free from this stone aged philosophy about not involving therapists and law enforcement professionals in serious safety matters (which likely is the case here).

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    5. Why is it likely the case here? What evidence do you have? And how dare you judge this man? Why is his blood less red than that of his wife?
      None of the therapists being attacked have more than rudimentary training. This Heimishe business of trusting 'experts' because they are 'fun unzere' is what we should break free from.

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    6. A man who got up in front of a courtroom full of bnei torah many of them were his own neighbors. He got up and said that the shul cant build on the pond because his kids need a pond to play .

      This man is a busy therapist in one of the frum agencies. Besides for his rishus to go against Bais din to go against a whole Kahal befaresya. THis Guy is has no dignity שוטה אין לו בושה. Many innocent parents entrust him with their young children.

      He already took sides in marriages turning children against fathers married and separated. You still want to know why there is no respect for parents rabeim rabonim Tzadikim and G-d

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    7. Yes Magaifa. Go do a little research by talking to divorce attorneys or some older wise men with white beards and you will find out that they feel the skyrocketing divorce rate came at the same time of the implosion of hundreds of therapists all over Lakewood. Most of the therapists have their own personal issues to deal with. That is not very dense. You are just very arrogant & think you know every thing.

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  9. http://dusiznies.blogspot.com/2016/07/lakewood-mother-has-her-husband.html

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  10. The title is wrong. His kids are not in the video.

    IDK who this guy is, but when we see a person instructing the police regarding a man's arrest, the halachos of Dan leKaf Zechus do not demand we justify the woman through the disparagement of the husband. I have no idea what this story is, but we see a bad person in this picture and it is not the husband.

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    1. his son is in the video at the end. title guy is right.

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    2. Why would you not be Dan Likaf Zechus the wife???????

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    3. If you see someone walk into a store and grab something without paying, do you say the owner stole it first? Or do we judge according to what we have?
      We saw a shot being fired by one party. we have no reason to imagine any other evil has occurred.

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  11. Oh but we here the daily spin about all the programs and mental health facilities to help with shalom bayis etc.. The results prove otherwise. But why not sell the koolaid if the olam drinks it.

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  12. An even bigger churban are those askanim therapist and anyone else that are so concerned for the children they remove the father take the kids away and than they leave the children homeless and penniless and they walk away. They start a fire and let it burn. These children fall on society once since the father can no longer function after what is done to him. But these askanim and feminist rabbis that cared soooo much for these kids taking their father away they are no where to be found. They move on to ruin zbf break apart another family. They will always use the magic words of abuse and molestation as cover for their actions.

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  13. Lakewood is a wild west in this sugya a real hefkervelt.

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  14. Where were the Askonim? This is what they are supposed to be for. They were too busy at awards ceremonies. They should have been there before the police to help this woman if she felt endangered or to explain to the husband that it is not worth going to jail over an argument. This is not acceptable. I would like to see all Askonim hand in their membership cards immediately. Drive your tinted suburbans right now and hand them in at the Lakewood Police Station. And please don't claim ignorance. You guys know when the next land auction is. You should have been aware of this as well.

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  15. chillul Hashem! Why was someone videoing this and posting it online?

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  16. They don't arrest someone unless he's done something illegal.

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    1. You obviously are not aware of how things work here. The women goes to the police and says he threatened me. The police automaticly give an order of protection regardless if it's true. If he gets near his own house she calls the police & he is arrested. It is a disgusting tactic that the women use lately.

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    2. You can hear the husband saying she's making a false claim against me. New Jersey Law in a domestic violence dispute if both parties have injury marks on their body one party must be removed from the home however over here it does not appear on either to be assaulted.

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  17. ADO you expect better from a town that is hosting a rock festival on rosh hashana with drugs and pig races bringing rappers and what not. The Lakewood police concerned about a outbreak of violence and refused to allow a liquor permit. But town leaders vowed to over rule so much for the concern and safety of the residents.

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  18. The rock festival on rosh hashona will have plenty of liquor. Chief Lawson begged the Township committee not to allow liquor.
    Meir Lichtenstein begged to have liquor and he won.
    How much was the payoff? he doesn't come cheap.

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  19. The Askonim are by Menashe Millers lavish wedding party oops bar mitzvah today.

    Meir lichtenstein said that the rock festival must have liquor flowing like a B-A-R mitzvah.

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  20. what about westgate shul?

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  21. A big problem is from the self appointed liaisons to the cops that are helping orchestrate these restraining orders.

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  22. The biggest churban of all is that this video ia being sent around and posted online for all to see.
    The children are embarrassed enough... this publicizes it and makes it almost impossible for them to walk the streets without shame.
    Shame on whoever took the video and shame on all who shared it.
    This LH and malbin penei chavero in its worst.

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  23. This is happening way to often in Lakewood. Women goes to a therapist she's not happy with her marriage. The incompetent therapist instead of working on shalom and even bother speaking to the husband, begins to empower the woman and guides her how to get out of the marriage. One particular therapist responsible for this is not even licensed. A lady who wants out of a marriage should go back to her mother's home and let the husband live in his house Instead feminist Lakewood askanim are on call as soon as a woman decided to end her marriage they move in. They advised her to trap him in a way that she can call the cops if she feels threatened by him. They coach her how to look for any possible position that she can claim molestation such as a father laying with a child in bed. They tell her to take pictures and than she makes her move. cops are called husband is removed and arrested kids are taken from him. wife stays on the house and he's out on the streets. than starts all the fun with court abuse and molestation charges he's left penniless defending himself for being a father and husband. The therapists and bully askanim police liaisons and others hiding behind their names are awol after successful killing another family. It's time to gather together and put an end to this madness. A woman who wants out should leave and go back to her parents. Rabbi Avigdor Miller ZTL said any woman who throws her husband out of his home will have no chelek in Olam Haba. One wonders if the same applies to all the enablers.

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  24. To all those having a hard time watching and questioning the publicizing of this video,Yes its not nice but this is going on daily when the cameras are not rolling. Its time the community sees the tactics used to throw men out of their homes. We raise the roof when a husband refuses to give a get but we are silent when children are taken from a father and the father is arrested and thrown out like a dog in the street for no reason at all. Its just how things are done. Its time the community is made aware of whats going on, Maybe this will rattle people to take action and revamp the divorce process in frum communities.

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  25. In my opinion, taking and disseminating this video is a mitzvah! The chillul Hashem is not the taker of the video!!!! The chillul Hashem is the hefkerus that is called Lakewood askonim and therapists.
    I can have every man reading this post in jail within 24 hours! Concoct a story, go to a local "Rav" with your "therapist" go to cops and go to court voila, Husband out!!
    Reshoim therapists are rampant! We all know them!

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  26. Almost 10,000 YouTube hits on this video!!! So sad. Now let's talk about kamtza bar kamtza! How can we let this happen. Lo saamod al dam reecha!

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  27. It is very easy for any women to obtain a restraining order against her Husband all she needs to do is say she feels Harrassed. The Family courts hand out restraining orders to women like Free Lolly Pops

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  28. You can hear on the video cop tells him there is a warrant out for your arrest, did he violate a restraining order?

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  29. We still don't know what the story here is do we? Who is the frumer one?

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  30. For too long lakewood askanim have husband's arrested just to gain leverage in the divorce battle. They advise a woman that she can call the cops if she feels the slightest threat.
    The husband is clueless since all of the planing is done behind his back.what may be a simple argument lands him in Jail. Once he's out they arrange a restraining order accuse him of molesting, he looses his house and kids. Now they start negotiations with a divorce settlement suddenly they are willing to drop all charges of molesting and restraining orders if he agrees to the financial and custody demands.

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  31. Those involved with divorce are very experienced they just won't lock a guy up and have him detained.
    Shenky zeev tendler ehrman finkel greenfield and the therapists at know better than the anonymous comments.

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    1. Experienced at what? At finding the best solutions for all parties? At helping out so the children stay normal? Or at assisting the 'damsels in distress'?

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    2. OY Vay you are so Temimusdick. Trust the Askanim. Be very wary and careful.

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  32. Thank G-D i don't live in that Ir HaNidachas

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  33. I read some of these comments with dissapointment. There are people (askonim,therapists) who spend their time trying to help others and their community. Yes they make mistakes at times, but ultimately their goal is to help. I want all these individuals who wrote negative comments and posted the video to ask themselves what they do to help others and their community at large?? maybe you recognize that you don't do enough and you are trying to make yourselves feel better by putting down other people... You have potential!! use it for good and you wont feel the need to push yourself up by pushing others down.

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    1. There are good ones who make mistakes but there are bad ones who who dont make mistakes they use these tactics very thought out. You are very naive b"H you obviously were not at the receiving end of this rishus.

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    2. Who says they help? That is what the comments are claiming. When we have askanim, who are curiously unmarried, willing to help women and only women, the men are always the guilty party, there is a question to be asked.
      Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

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    3. I guess its possible that I am naïve. my point is that it appears to me that some people commenting are assuming that therapists, or anybody else trying to help, are trying to hurt people and families. There is no way for you to know that, even if you suspect it. And if that's a concern you have, get up and do something yourself to help your fellow neighbors. Don't live life pushing blame on everybody else. I apologize to anybody who has had a negative experience, I do not mean to minimize the pain you endured.

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  34. I know nothing about the story, nor do I recognize the people or the complex where this is taking place.
    That said, if he is separated with a restraining order, why was he there?
    If she wasn't letting him see his kids & that was the only way he could I understand the desperation, but to me it seems like this has happened before & he knew this would happen, he stayed around for the police to come, he had someone film it & then sent it to the blogs.
    Weather right or wrong to me it seems the mizbaiach will cry over here.
    I tell you "man take all your assets if you have any & give them to a family member as a present, or tzedokoh give up your job & declare chapter 11. If there is a mortgage on the house in your name stop paying.
    Give a get as soon as you can & a civil divorce have her pay court costs, because you can't.
    If she somehow stops you seeing your kids, pack off to Israel for a while, and bring all those involved to din Torah.
    It is definitely very painful, but look at Hillary Clinton, and understand the justice system in the US & the world needs a make-over.
    How ever hard it is, don't waste on fighting, but relieve your assets that she has nothing to gain.
    I doubt she could be a good mother if she did what she did, if you humiliate a father in front of his kids you definitely traumatize the kids.
    The more you fight & get even the more damage, if she doesn't want you for whatever reason, & will go to such extreme against you, you don't want her.
    Give up & start all over, there are many singles who haven't started yet much older than you. You still have potential, but the more you fight & the more that gets out, the more you lose it.
    The biggest lesson in life is move on.
    How ever darn right you may well be it won't help you against a bullet or a cruel dictator, but if you run away from the bullet or the dictator, you may be saved.

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  35. Unless you know the real story behind it, you are all making comments out of thin air! Why don't you hear both sides, and know what really happened before you are soooo quick to judge and show your opinion in front of the world. You can knock and put down the agunah crisis, and what the mother did....but what does that make YOU, who doesn't know a full picture, look like???

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  36. Anonymous 7:26

    As someone who lived thru this, your advice was extremely well put and very true.
    Though, you are assuming he was aware of this consequence, I doubt that he was.
    Nonetheless, he should follow your advice to the "T" and move on.
    He will be much much happier in life.

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  37. You can thank all those Rabbonim who give anonymous heterim to ladies without speaking to the husband or verifying information. Heterim not to go to the mikva is a common practice which ends up breaking the marriage apart. Heterim to call cops and get restraining orders to call dyfs and have the kids removed.

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    1. In westgate this heter of withholding mikva is prevalent, it eases the overcrowding appointments at the Mikva.

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    2. Even for those who get the infamous 3 day perk????

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  38. Check comments there
    https://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2016/07/lakewood-rabbonim-encourage-women-to.html

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  39. Where are all the Lakewood bashing websites why are they not writing about this? Oh because it dosent fit with their feminist agenda...

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  40. Recently a husband had the same thing done to him he was removed from his home had a restraining order on him and his children were taken from him. He was labeled as a molester and abuser facing criminal charges in court. The frum therapy agency in Lakewood called dyfus on the father to report him for molestation. The therapist never spoke to anyone from the father and were pressured to do so by the clean shaven rabbi who takes the ladies sides in divorce matters. It took a lot of time and money but after hiring lawyers and taking it to court all allegations were baseless. The children were evaluated by professional psychologists who testified there was nothing there it was all to gain leverage in a divorce battle. He got his children back. He took thf frum therapist to a din Torah for Mesira and for taking his children away from him for over 2 years. The BD ruled in his favor in a very strong worded psak and came down hard on the therapist and its agency. The BD also ruled they must repay the husband thousands for legal fees he was forced to pay to defend himself on baseless accusations. To this day the therapist and the agency ignore the psak and continue to break famillies apart. They treat children of seperated homes without letting the father know the child is there. When fathers inquire they first deny than they refuse to share any information what the child is there for. So much for helping the community as they like to preach.

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    1. Where can I see this pesak? Why keep the agency's name secret? Let us all know from whom to be careful.

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    2. will be publicized soon

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    3. a public frum agency that goes by initials

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  41. this person should not have put on a video of a sad thimg like this

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  42. You realize there is no incentive to fix the families as the cash cow goes away. The more families they destroy the more money they make. Just sickening.

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  43. Just last week A child called their father HITLER in a divorce case currently going on in Lakewood. Right or wrong this is killing the children. And this child is in therapy so much for that.

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  44. Unfortunately there are people in Lakewood who run to ruin marriage without even hearing the husbands side. Worse they can falsely tell the wife to assume the husband is looking to do something to her when he had no intentions of doing so.

    I'm speaking from personal experience.

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  45. It all comes down to money. There is a way to do things peacefully but they want money Woman are advised to do whatever it takes to kick the husband out. She automatically stays in the home and has the husband paying for the mortgage and utilities. This tactic however always backfires once a restraining order is obtained. The kids are than dragged in and traumatized for life.

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  46. http://www.kaveshtiebel.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=10763

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  47. He was released and is out of his house.

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  48. This is standard a standard trick used when a spouse wants to leave the marriage. NO ne wants to leave the home because than you cant take the kids with you. Thats why they get a restraining order drum up molestation and abuse charges and they fire the first shot without even going to court. At this point its up to a judge who knows good in well these claims are mostly fabricated and false but they dont want to err on the side of caution and therefore will go through the due process in a prolonged drawn out court proceeding. The askanim meanwhile will tell the husband give us what we ask and all charges are dropped, you cant afford a court case its too expensive and so on.

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  49. Who took this video and uploaded it??
    Why was he arrested outside in front of the kids?? Why wasn’t he inside, he could have stayed inside? Maybe the scene was set so Shloimy Klein could get this video
    What made the wife call the police on her husband?
    Maybe he was arrested for something not related to the wife?
    The wife doesn’t have anything to post hurting the husband? Or she isnt doing that, because she doesn’t want to do anything that can hurt her children or the father of her children
    This is just the beginning, more questions will follow
    A concerned neighbor

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  50. The problem with the husbands are that most of them refuse to go for help, they blame all the issues on the wife. She inturn runs for help because she is living with a crackpot and she get the empowering tools and the support she needs. The husband unfournatly never sees himself in the equation that he has major issues so why degrate yourself and go to a therapist. So she moves along with her help while he diesn't get the help and gets deeper in the hole that he made for himself and his family

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    1. Its usually the other way around but in our feminist driven town a lady is always correct and man/ husband is a dangerous animal

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    2. From personnel experience in helping couples. I found that contrary to popular belief the woman is usually the one with the emotional issues. The woman usually is the one who gets irrational when the heat is on and does nasty vicious stuff.

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  51. when is this going to stop already?? someone has to stop all these crazy wives from drumming up false abuse/allegations charges and then witholding the kids from their fathers !! the kids are suffering the most and then we wonder why lakewood has the biggest OTD problem!!!!

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    1. It will only stop when there is no power or money to be made off breaking apart homes.

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  52. I find when a marriage goes sour. The man is quicker to invest in rehabilitating the marriage then the woman. He uses logic and the woman uses her emotions. I think that may explain this whole phenomenon.

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  53. And how many of you commenters against the woman and therapists and women of this town were actually BEHIND their closed doors?
    How many of u saw how this wife has been treated or how tge kids have been treated or if their was any abuse etc.
    You dont know. I dont know. Only THEY know.

    I say this as a woman who walks around with ppl thinking I have the most blissful life.
    My husband can be nice.
    But let me tell you... when he gets angry or impatient or nervous or irrational ot isnt pretty. But YOU, all of you, wouldnt know that.
    Ive worked and worked on trying to make things better, And BH we have had improvement but every so often when he snaps into crazy mode I wonder whats going to be. And so I dont judge this woman because I KNOW that I dont know what happened!
    And though it may be wrong to publicly have police arrest him... I dont know that he didnt privately hurt her or the kids or emotionally harm them and we cant judge the situation.

    But it sickens me how you all talk down abt the women here. Do you know how many women here are either physically or emotionally abused by their husbands. Just because a guy is in full garb doesnt mean he has good midos, doesnt mean he learned how to control his anger and doesnt mean that he is a mentch.
    Treat yoir wife well and life will be swell. Treat your wife like dirt and your life will be hell.

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    1. You dont know what happened yet you take a side. There are issues on both sides sometimes the only option is divorce after all venues have been tried.
      How many men are tzadikim for putting up with wives that are emotionally and mentally unstable yet they accept it and live with it so at least their children should have a normal family setting. Its the therapists who push women to divorce their husbands for the most selfish reasons. Its much more rampant these days with woman leaving their families.

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  54. And yet again another restraining order was taken out on a father yesterday in an unfortunate situation, at least it was done at night when the kids were not around.

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  55. When the askanim involved with inyanei Gittin are nor from the yorei shamayim to say the least this is the result. As chazal say ain aportopus leaarayos. A askan who is not married talking to vulnerable woman, a young newlywed giving shalom bayis counseling, a newly trained therapist pushing divorce, a person who is shady buisnessman negotiating divorce settelments is a recipe for disaster

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  56. Stop blaming the askonim and therapists and start blaming the fact that working on midos is not a priority.
    In this me me me society. Sometimes divorce is the better option. And if a guy has a restraining order against him its usually not cuz he sat there like a sweety pie. Men need to start taking responsibility for their actions without finger pointing. You are grownups... not 5 yr olds.
    Women arent always innocent but men need to treat their lady like a lady and unfortunately too often that aint the case.
    The one finger I might point is at chassanim teachers not stressing enough the importance of treating your wife with dignity and care and promoting shalom.

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  57. http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-shidduch-crisis-spiritual.html

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  58. http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2014/11/lakewood-therapists-may-be-not-be.html

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  59. Westgate will continue to be brought up and mentioned. While others would like the issue to fall away and be buried, We will not be silent until the ugly stain is removed. Its an issue that is nogea to this very day. hundreds of children sit home on shabbos and don't come to shul because there is no room. Father's can't daven were they would like to because of a lack of space. Ladies have no ezras nashim to come to on shabbos. only one shul is above ground no one else is permitted to build. The residents who are not part of the wg shul are davening in crammed moldy basements stuffed like sardines. This insanity could be stopped but the local leaders just look away. It comes down to a few well connected askanim holding an entire tzibbur hostage only to fulfill the sick desire of power and control

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  60. A group of bullies are holding an entire community hostage controlling all aspects of of communal and social well being.
    1. The Mikva Nashim is used as a private club were members of the WG vaad get to make early appointments 3 days in advance while the rest of the peasants only get the late appointments/

    2. Only one shul may be built above ground to comfortably sit members of the WG vaad maffia and their families. A total of 180 seats. The other 2000 peasants are forced to daven in basement shuls stuffed like sardines in subhuman dangerous conditions.

    3. If the peasants dare to open a shul and expand or build they are met with forceful resistance from the WG mob who pull rabbis out of hats who are on the payroll and beholden to the mafia.

    4.Hundreds of children sit home shabbos morning because their totty has no room next to him in shul. Yet the mob members have full tables for their extended mishpacha.

    5.innocently collecting membership money from gullible renters while not providing a seat to daven in other perks that only go to the exclusive club.

    6. Publicly shaming their own Rav equating him as a hired janitor

    7. Non stop redifos against other rabbonim in westgate and mispalelim who dont cow-tow to the rule of the mob. Looking to restricting minyanim and simchos from taking place in other shuls

    8. mesira to the govt on existing shuls and other kehillos not bowing to the vaad demands.

    9. Allowing a girls seminary to move into a residential block with many older boys living there no concern about parking tznius or other issues. Yet when a shul wants to expand these same "Rabbonim" are the first to yell about parking and tznius.

    10. You would expect this from a anti semitic town somewhere but this is happening right now in Lakewood. Nebach a few individuals with control issues can manipulate rabbonim and bully others while perpetuating this avlah against an entire kehila.

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  61. Genug shoin with the Westgate machloiksim. Hefkervelt is not the avenue to get something done. To constantly kvetch about here won't get you anywhere. Get up at the next public Township meeting and unload your frustrations at the podium. Please spare us from your ridiculous power struggling machloikes.

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  62. If you don't want to read about it, don't read that blog! People can kvetch about whatever they want! You don't have the monopoly on hefkervelt

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  63. nu so what happened with all this tumul with divorce did anything Co do of it or the olam stam hocked a tcheinik.

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  64. the problem is that the men think that the wives have the problem and they are tzadikim. When the therepsits tell them that the man has issues thathe must work on and correct he b;ames the therepists for telling him the truth. And yes the truth hurts sometimes so instead of being stuck up that you always have to be right go and look in the mirror and be man enough to admit that you have been treating your wife like garbage and that you must corret the situation and work intensly on your issues. But if you aren't going to admit and work on your self why should your wife have to live with all of that abuse

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