Monday, March 21, 2016

Why the double standard?

Submitted via comment.  letter in support of the bais Horaah was signed by Roshei yeshiva and Rabbonim, Rav Shlomo Miller shlita wrote a strong letter about those who went to the township (in his words mesira) to have a shul shut down. Yet at the same time in WG there was out right mesira on a existing shul that is looking to expand and build a bigger Bais Medrash as the shul has long outgrown its current quarters. A Lawyer was hired and paid for by unzere to oppose the shul who brought up issues about the property that had no shaychus to any of the issues of concern opposition just to stop a shul! This is after there was a din torah and Rabbonim ruled the shul can build. why is there no outrage? why no letters? How can we allow this to go on? does it come down to whomever screams loudest or have deep pockets?

51 comments:

  1. No double standard. BMG doesn't really get involved in other kehillahs and their shuls. BMG Batei Midrash are the only shuls that they will make sure to build nice and big. Every other kehillah can daven in basements or trailers, in cramped conditions,without place for women and children, as far as their concerened.
    This is an opportunity to finally show HH who the real boss in town is.

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  2. Maybe because there are greater concerns with the WG land grab such as tzniyus veOD.

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  3. If the basis of both locations issues is about parking, then why don't the frum storeowners take Glick to a Beis Din as Reb Malkiel shlit"a said the oilom in Westgate should do to solve their issues?

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    1. The oilam in Westgate already proved that there is no need to listen to a bais din, and it was a waste of 2 years trying to go the bais din route. Bais din paskened in favor of the shul, but these guys feel they know better.

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  4. if they really cared about the klal they would just rent an office in any building for a minimum cost of 300 a month and they wouldnt have to go crazy with dinners to fund the Bais Horaa. And maybe they would actually have extra money to pay these choshuve rabbonim better for taking of their time to answer shaalos.
    I'm not sure why a bais Horaa needs to have a state of the art building on the highest real estate Market. a small office in a nice building is choshuv enough. or rent an office in a shul.... But put up a huge building with a crazy expensive shul and start a kollel and plus ......... and then expect everyone to stop and make room for your parking. I dont know whos the gveer behind this but who ever he is if he really cared he would sell a peice of marble of the aron kodesh and dome ceiling he made and buy the property next door and make parking for his mitzva of creating a bais horaa...... dont spend the millions on the interior and then leave the parking for all the store owners to donate...buy another property for your parking.

    Maybe I'm missing something here.... dont get me wrong I love the bais Horaa and what it does but not the way it was done.
    matbe someone else can shed light here

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  5. I have no first hand knowledge of any facts. But there is a difference as far as letters. One us closing down an existing Shul and baus medrash. The other is stopping something from being built. There will always be more peiple writing letters regarding an existing shul that is being shut down as ippised to something that does not exust yet. So its not a double standard.

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  6. In Westgate Rav Forcheimer said not to go to the township and make a chilul hashem and arbitrate with rabbonim. For 2 years A Bais din was formed with the WG mikva to represent the Bm of Westgate. The Rabbonim looked at the issues and said the shul can build. Now the WV maffia was enraged they thought the psak would go their way.They went to Rav Forcheimer and pressured him to back off. The rabbonim are standing by the psak. regardless they hired a lawyer and went around collecting for it but if course they put it under some else's name. When they were called out for what they did they claim to have backing from an anonymous Rav permitting them to fight a shul and do whatever it takes to stop it.

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    1. Wonder what would happen if Toras Menachem or Prospect Park shul or BM of Westgate want to build or extend and then unzereh hire a lawyer to fight in it court with no heter.. what an outcry there would be...

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    2. No one would say boo! After all, who starts up with Maffia guys?!

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  7. they probably got the psak from the bais Horaa! to fight a shul. and now the bais horaa is wondering what hashem is trying to tell with closing down their shul.
    so typical. But they'll never see it. Theyre to self centered to realize the idiocy here.
    open a huge building for a 1 room bais horaa! does it make sense. and then put a kollel and let them answer the shailos on dalid chelkei shulchan aruch Cuz they just learned Hilchos Shabbos.
    This makes a lot of sense...
    Its not about how much you know its about who you know!

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  8. I think it only be fair for all thos rabbonim and rashei yeshivos who signed to also show up to this meeting as well as the rabbonim of westgate, so its a fair playing field

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  9. I agree that there is a double standard and hypocrisy afoot. From what I have seen, the only rule is that of the mob.

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  10. Answer is easy. One story has two sides fighting, and although one side is likely in the wrong, the rosh yeshivas are not taking any sides.

    The other story, is the township's notorious inspection dept (and one individual who has cried wolf about everything for the past ten years) closing the building claiming its unsafe, when in truth it's a highly questionable parking issue, vs everyone else who wants the building open.

    It's no comparison. (I'm not saying the rosh yeshivas shouldn't get involved in westgate.)

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    1. Harold HerskowitzMarch 21, 2016 at 8:29 PM

      inspection dept. was kept away by Mayor Miller,and before that because the businesses were patiently waiting for the owner to create parking. nobody really cares about the bais horaah except those that need to make money from it. they havent paid the kollel in months. it is not an integral need in town. there is a beautiful bais havaad with amazingly honest baalei horaah,and even a large parking lot, less than a mile away

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  11. Hershel HerskowitzMarch 21, 2016 at 10:35 AM

    Dear Rabbi Miller,

    The Bais Horaah and Kollel were closed because the owner of the building lied outright about its intended use. Had he told the truth , it never would have been an allowed use. Nobody maasered on anyone. The parking that the building was using was outright Geneiva . We asked to go to a din torah. They refused. We asked that the inspection department make an exception and allow them to stay for 3 months in order to acquire parking next door. No attempts were made to purchase the property

    You asked to meet with the affected businesses to discuss the situation. I told you that I personally witnessed people leaving the parking lots to go to other stores when they could not find parking. I told you I saw your son parking right in the middle of the lot almost every day. I asked you how we can figure out how much money was stolen from these businesses. At that point I assumed you realized the severity of what was done. Your answer to me was that you told Mr. Glick to move the kollel, "but he is a mashigenne, he wont listen to me". Those were your words. I asked you why your name is still associated with the kollel, you had no answer. I didnt want to press the issue further. I hoped you would take care of the issue as anyone of your stature should stand for yashrus, and halacha should be your guide to make sure innocent people do not get hurt.

    Much to my dismay I was wrong. You simply went behind everyones backs and continued to help the Bais Horaah steal from these businesses. Now you write such a strong letter condemning someone for closing a shul? If i opened a kollel in your living room while you were away,would you be able to close it down? This is no different.
    This kollel was put into a building, built illegally. It was used for the owner to hide behind it. You are a partner now in all that he stole, and will continue to steal from the neighboring stores.
    I am proud that I stood up against what was done to them, and I am sickened that you pressured some to be maskim to this theft. If you want to blame someone for closing the kollel down , you can blame me. But I was also the person that tried to help it stay open. And I will continue to help it stay open, as long as it doesnt threaten peoples livelihood. I am disgusted by your lack of concern for another jews parnossah. If you have a problem with anything I have written here, by all means please tell me to my face that I am wrong. I am not a posek like you are, but I think Limud torah is not Doiche the lav of loi signoiv. Perhaps in Canada there is a different Torah.

    As it stands right now, I dont see how anyone can take any psak that you give seriously. I also hope that you will tell your son where to park to avoid any further gezeila on your part.

    Sincerely
    Hershel Herskowitz

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    1. Binyomin LefkowitzMarch 21, 2016 at 10:52 AM

      There is a way to air grievances, and then there's עז פנים לגיהנם.

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    2. There is definitely another way to air grievences. HH is merrily responding in the same forum that he was addressed. Should he have rather hung posters in BMG? he would have if not for the fact that they would be instantly removed.

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    3. Awesome letter. If only all the sheep would know the facts that hershel. Is the one that kept the kollel opened for 3months.

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    4. Harold HerskowitzMarch 21, 2016 at 1:02 PM

      Dear Binyomin,this was a response to Rabbi Millers public letter, so I assume your comment was directed towards him.

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    5. Harold HerskowitzMarch 21, 2016 at 1:08 PM

      andf by the way. the difference in Westgate is that no matter how much added traffic it may cause, the bulk of the community wants it very much. It is also in a closed development and its approval does not cause any chillul hashem. I also happen to know that it is most certainly getting approved, and rightfully so.

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    6. Harold HerskowitzMarch 21, 2016 at 1:21 PM

      good point. I am waiting for Rabbi Miller to ask Dov Kaufman,Schreiber,and all the other affected merchants for mecheila.

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    7. Please answer his complaints instead of getting hot under the collar

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    8. Harold, you are really crossing boundaries with that sick letter to one of the gedolei Horaah in our generation

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  12. HH, if you are so legitimate about working to not allow people to get required permits when they are skirting important issues, why do you not make your voice heard when it comes to the building of so many over sized developments down route nine that create traffic nightmares and endanger lives for tens of thousands of people?

    Do all of these builders who live in fancy homes in Lakewood or elsewhere really deserve to receive all kinds of shady variances and permits to line their own pockets at the expense of backing up route 9 for miles? And what motivates the people on the boards to pass so many variances and permits? Is anyone getting paid under the table?

    Why is the downtown the only issue in your world? Because you are (or used to be?) there? So it is all about you? You like to talk about yashrus, but somehow its only in regard to certain specific matters. Are there any other motivations, HH?

    Also, please answer this. Forget who is right on the issue per say (you have good arguments). Does or does it not qualify as missara. I would love to hear an honest response from a man who claims to be so honest.

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    1. we never maasered on anyone. The owners caused all the problems themselves . they lied to get approvals and lied again to get a tax abatement. I do not oppose anyones building projects ever. It is not my place to ruin other peoples plans. I assumed this was done legally, albeit irresponsibly planned. Only after it was caught and we saw plainly that it is causing major issues, did I try to fix the problem by suggesting they create a parking lot. Only after they lied numerous times about parking in the muster zone, did I suggest this. I want the kollel.I really do. Its better than gang members hanging out on the streets. But if the owner of the Kollel doesnt act any better than a gang member, and then consorts with the worst gang in town, the shopper mafia, what benefit is it?
      As for the downtown being my only issue.I wanted to do something positive in our town. I made my businesses there for that reason alone. I Know what a benefit a nice central shopping district can be to a town. But you are right. I am retiring from my effort. I am going to slowly close my store and bring a shiny new office building to the area instead. Five stories of much needed office space will replace my toy store. I will no longer step foot into the downtown. I was actually asked by someone in Jackson if i would like to help them create a downtown area there. I will need something to keep myself busy, since i do not oppose building projects. not my cup of tea

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    2. If you recall Hershchel ran for township committee and lost by a small margin. He has been threatened and his kids were kicked out of school. There is only so much one person can do. At least he has the (guts) to open his mouth unlike many others (including myself)

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    3. his kids weren't kicked out of schools. SCK tried threatening him but it was too late. hershels kids in local bais faigas school

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  13. Harold Maybe just build a Bais Horaa and kollel in your toy store and then you be able to park in the township parking lot. so youll be able to build on your whole property with out having to have the aquired parking spots.
    Good Idea!?

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  14. Hh, I heard from ml that all they did wrong was not pay impact fees when building was built. That of they were honest upfront about the use , they could've paid a fee and used downtown parking lots. Is there any truth to this at all?

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    1. Harold HerskowitzMarch 21, 2016 at 2:10 PM

      not true. the entire approval was based on a lie. they said its a single use building for 17 employees

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  15. I love you hershel. Pity people don't care about the facts. The facts are hershel fought to keep the BH opened for 3 months.

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  16. Mr HH
    I am not taking any side as I dont have the facts . However your letter is the reason most people dont take you seriously . You call somebody parking in a municipal lot ,a Gazlan . That is totally inaccurate . Any person has the right to park in the municipal lot . As of now ,if a student in BMG or anybody else wants to park there ,he will not get towed . If you have a problem with the building owner for being a goirem for lack of parking ,that is your right . But you called somebody a gazlan for parking where he is legally entitled to .
    If the TWP were to pass an ordinance limiting parking to 30 or 60 minutes ,then they could enforce it with whatever fines they choose . If the TWP were to pass an ordinance that parking is limited to those using certain stores and you need a paper permit from the store in your windshield ,then you could ticket somebody from the Kollel . But as of now you are being motzi shem ra on law abiding citizens and calling them very bad names berabim . Its hard to get mechila for something like that .

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    1. Harold HerskowitzMarch 21, 2016 at 2:09 PM

      It is gezeila if they are parking for a use in a building that lied in order to obtain approval for use. if they told the truth, they would have been told they need their own lot in order not to hurt nearby businesses. so anyone parking for that building is a gazlan. for any other use? we are all cool

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    2. Gezeilah has regulations. Would you like to point to a seif in shulchan aruch?

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  17. Perhaps it is Time for the Establishment to ask Mechila from the Rosh Bais Din Badatz of Lakewood, Horav Yisroel Arye Knopfler. They were Rodef him simply because he was an outsider who had the "Audacity" To open a Bais Din not affiliated with the Establishment and he was not willing to Toe the line

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    1. that would never happen.the establishment takes no prisoners.

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  18. http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2016/03/double-standard-chilul-hashem.html

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  19. I know anyone can park in a municipal lot, but, there is a time limit as to how long they can stay there.

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  20. Please cite the legal ordinance as to how long it is permitted to park in that particular lot and tell me where the signs are thst advises people that it is illegal to park fir more than an hour

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    1. Various lots in town, along with spots on Clifton ave have signs clearly saying that there's a time limit. Most of the spots in the lot behind bagel nosh is a 2 hr limit.

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  21. If it is illegal you can bet the police would be writibg tickets all dsy

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    1. wrong. there are cars parked illegally near certain high powered places that didnt supply parking and no one gets a ticket

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    2. 720 unfortunately you are wrong. its been illegal all along but they refused to enforce it

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  22. "I'm asking the board here publicly to please let the kollel stay" Harold Hershkowitz
    3/21/16 7:34pm

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    1. And what are you advising should not stay?

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    2. illegal parking obviously.

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  23. If there is a 2 hour limit then the police can ticket anybody parking longer than 2 hours. I doubt anybody will keep parking thete if he gets daiky tickets

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  24. Big day Bh Kollel was granted a new lease of life.
    Pls note the parking lot is the townships lot and not bagel noshes or any other store or theater. Yes I who pay 13k taxes prefer 4 corners bagels but still want to park there and take a walk around the lake for 2 hours am I a גזלן?


    Fact is also that the Bais horah aquired another lot on 5th and Madison.

    Fact is also that 50-60 percent of ppl that learn in the Kollel don't bring their cars there the wither walk or get dropped off.

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    1. Fact is also that the Bais horah aquired another lot on 5th and Madison.
      great fact, how come I didnt hear it mentioned by anyone from the bais horaah? i was there all night last night listening closely

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  25. HH is one of the few honest people in town that don't use their position to bully other people.

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  26. Obviously you could not hear well because it was probably mentioned at leat 10 times. So try to listen to positive things.

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