Tuesday, February 2, 2016

Updated: Hearing for kelmwoods BM in Westgate Tomorrow


Update: from comment,
"Hearing was pushed off until the next planning hearing in March. The opposing lawyer brought up some technicalities regarding deed restrictions and they have to clarify the issues. 
 The hearing is rescheduled for Tuesday night Feb. 2nd at 7:15 PM in the municipal  building on 3rd Street. It is imperative that we all come and show support for this most important cause. Please see attached letter from Rabbi Forsheimer, Rabbi Schacar, and Rabbi Shulgasser. The signed Rabbonim have been very encouraging and even gave a special Brachah to all those who will support this endeavor. 

118 comments:

  1. The boys from the Lakewood shopper have once again started playing games with the laws in regards to the fire Election. they put their puppet Larry Longman on the ballot in order to ensure that they can exert some control over the fire department for their own personal gain. We all know that they tried to profit from obtaining a building for $1 which recently was sold by the Township for over 1 million dollars., they tried to ensure that they would have been influenced by putting Larry like men on two different parts of the ballot one for a two-year term and one for a three year term they did this knowing that it is probably illegal to have the same people nominates the same candidate for both terms in the same race. It has now been found out but the signatures are the same on both once again Wenger and Bernstein are taking a chance with getting prosecuted for election fraud. this request has already been submitted to the Election Commission and will be dealt with immediately

    Good afternoon,
    After reviewing both petitions for Larry Loigman, I see that the same exact signatures appear on both of them. This is in clear violation of NJSA 19:13-6

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  2. Attention Howell,Toms River, Jackson residents you can thank the Westgate maffia for paving the way how to oppose building shuls and schools in your neighborhood. Meharsayich umachrivayic h mimcha yaitzaoo.

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    1. רשע למה תכה רעך
      ישעיה מט יז' מִהֲרוּ בָּנָיִךְ, מְהָרְסַיִךְ וּמַחֲרִבַיִךְ מִמֵּךְ יֵצֵאוּ עיין במצודות שפירש
      המהרסים והמחריבים אותך יצאו ממך ר"ל הרשעים שבקרבך הם סבבו ההריסה והחורבן ולא מאתי יצאה הרעה
      הסיקריקם דוועסט גייט ידועים לשמצה כתלמידי בלעם הרשע מאז ומתמיד מזמן התייסדות השכונה .
      ארור אשר לא יקים את דברי התורה הזאת ואמר כל העם אמן
      ארור מכה רעהו בסתר ואמר כל העם אמן

      ארור לוקח שוחד להכות נפש דם נקי, ואמר כל העם אמן

      these people will shout ALLAH AKBAR before they come to fight against הרחבת גבולות הקדושה


      רבותי, השמרו לכם עלות בהר ונגוע בקצהו
      חילול שם שמים בפרהסיא בהידורה במעמד של יותר מעשרה מישראל בפני שונאיהם של ישראל ושאר האומות
      מי שיבא לקחת חבל במעמד עכיבת בנין בית המדרש הרי הוא בכלל דבר ד' בזה וכו' ר "ל שבזה שמעכבים לחזק את בדק הבית נמצא אתם רומסים על ציבור של מאות משפחות כ"י, רומסים על ת"ח בני תורה ובני עלייה מסלתן ומשמנה של דורנו, רומסים על רבנים רומסים על שלשה עמודי עולם רומסים על התורה רומסים על העבודה \ תפלה, עוברים על למס מרעהו חסד שמונעים חסד מאחיכם
      Which one of you guys are willing to take the risk of jeopardizing your עולם הבא?
      Don’t say that that you are just following orders. Each one of you are fully responsible As no man or woman would dear to come fight alone, since you know that you are not acting out of עהרלעכקייט .Obviously You can’t face the ציבור you are having secret meetings, your are sending females to act as human shields,
      Your actions will be recorded and they won’t bear any fruit. You will show your true colors while accomplishing nothing.
      It is not too late. even though you caused the בדק הבית a loss of 100’s of thousands of dollars. You can still do תשובה רחום אחר החטא רחום קודם החטא.
      רגזו ואל תחאטו
      A BMG Talmid




      רשע למה תכה רעך
      ישעיה מט יז' מִהֲרוּ בָּנָיִךְ, מְהָרְסַיִךְ וּמַחֲרִבַיִךְ מִמֵּךְ יֵצֵאוּ עיין במצודות שפירש
      המהרסים והמחריבים אותך יצאו ממך ר"ל הרשעים שבקרבך הם סבבו ההריסה והחורבן ולא מאתי יצאה הרעה
      הסיקריקם דוועסט גייט ידועים לשמצה כתלמידי בלעם הרשע מאז ומתמיד מזמן התייסדות השכונה .
      ארור אשר לא יקים את דברי התורה הזאת ואמר כל העם אמן
      ארור מכה רעהו בסתר ואמר כל העם אמן

      ארור לוקח שוחד להכות נפש דם נקי, ואמר כל העם אמן

      these people will shout ALLAH AKBAR before they come to fight against הרחבת גבולות הקדושה


      רבותי, השמרו לכם עלות בהר ונגוע בקצהו
      חילול שם שמים בפרהסיא בהידורה במעמד של יותר מעשרה מישראל בפני שונאיהם של ישראל ושאר האומות
      מי שיבא לקחת חבל במעמד עכיבת בנין בית המדרש הרי הוא בכלל דבר ד' בזה וכו' ר "ל שבזה שמעכבים לחזק את בדק הבית נמצא אתם רומסים על ציבור של מאות משפחות כ"י, רומסים על ת"ח בני תורה ובני עלייה מסלתן ומשמנה של דורנו, רומסים על רבנים רומסים על שלשה עמודי עולם רומסים על התורה רומסים על העבודה \ תפלה, עוברים על למס מרעהו חסד שמונעים חסד מאחיכם
      Which one of you guys are willing to take the risk of jeopardizing your עולם הבא?
      Don’t say that that you are just following orders. Each one of you are fully responsible As no man or woman would dear to come fight alone, since you know that you are not acting out of עהרלעכקייט .Obviously You can’t face the ציבור you are having secret meetings, your are sending females to act as human shields,
      Your actions will be recorded and they won’t bear any fruit. You will show your true colors while accomplishing nothing.
      It is not too late. even though you caused the בדק הבית a loss of 100’s of thousands of dollars. You can still do תשובה רחום אחר החטא רחום קודם החטא.
      רגזו ואל תחאטו
      A BMG Talmid




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    2. Google translate is a great tool. I am learning so much.

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  3. Can someone please post the other side to this story? Honestly don't understand. Is it because it's close to the mikvah?

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    1. The mikva issue has been dealt with Chaim mordche mandel sat in a din torah and they issued a psak the shul can build. Case closed. The Westgate Mafia does not want the shul built and will do everything in their power to stop it. we hear they are reaching out to politicians now and others in the township.

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    2. Terrible location, you can do as many "traffic studies" as you want, the location is terrible for a big shul to be built, besides the fact that they don't need nearly as many seats as they are building for, build a smaller shul and I don't think people would have such an issue with it. Just my 2 cents as a renter in westgate who's not involved with either side.

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    3. This the first time I see someone saying a shul is to big. Question. How many shuls in Lakewood had to expand lately? Question . How many shul are busting at their seems. Look at westgate. I'd there 1 empty seat in any shul? Doesn't make sense to think ahead.
      I the your comment show who you are . As we say in Yiddish אז די פיש שטינקט , שטינקט עס פופ די קאף!

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    4. There is already a shul there and it is bursting at the seams. Just say it straight out you cant fargin that Rav Helberg should have a "bigger" shul. If it would happen anywhere else you would be labeled an anti semite. shame on the silence while the redifos went on against Rav Flam, Rav Helberg Rav Walkin and even Rav Halpern who was only recently aloowed to pasken some shailos. and others when a bigger shame that a rav who is on the wesgtate maffiah payroll is openly opposing the shul. What would he tell his mispalelim in PP when they want to expand.

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    5. So it's about traffic?

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    6. Its not about traffic or mikva or almana or too big its about kinah and kavod that yenem wants to build a shul and all you did for 12 years is fight , destroy, and nothing to show for it.

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    7. too big? they don't need that many seats? that's even better. an empty bais medrash definitely won't cause trouble....

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    8. whose pp and who is the rav there

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    9. There are no empty seats in the main shul on westgate because the builder refuses to give over the other half of the shul.

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    10. Westgate need close to 3000 seats every shul helps alleviate the seating shortage. Its sad when parents can not bring their boys with them to shul.

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    11. R Heshy Hisiger Prospect park

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    12. No surprise was on the payroll and unofficial rav in Kletzk he is beholden to the mafionerenn.

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  4. Why would anyone ever go to a Beisdin forget can just change their mind. I am sure that it's not true. It would be the end of all boteidinim.

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    1. Welcome to Lakewood botei din when pressure coms from a maffia they capitulate. That is the biggest chilul hashem of this whole thing.

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  5. I would like to point out the most important point in this debate. Lakewood claims to be an "Ihr Hatorah". Additionally, the people opposing the shul claim to be frum ehrlicha Yiddin. The people opposing the shul went to a Din Torah and they got a psak. They went back to the same Bais Din and argued their points again. Once again the Bais Din upheld their psak they still went to the hearing to oppose the shul. If you examine the letter posted above you will clearly see that Rabbi Forschiemer wrote that they are not allowed to go to the planning board to oppose the shul. Nevertheless, these people have hired a lawyer to try and stop the shul from being built. These are frum ehrlicha people?

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  6. If Chaim mordche mandel got his way would we still be at this stage??

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  7. And yechiel hess. Beats me why he needs Rabbi FORCHEIMER TO change his psak didn't seem to have a problem showing up to oppose when there eas no sofek on the psak.

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  8. Seriously, something fishy is going on, based on the comments on this blog it seems that alot of chosuv people who live in westgate are against this expansion, to accuse all of them of some kinah/power desire, seems a bit far fetched, what is the other side?

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  9. Which "other side"? When you're dealing with a bunch of two faced people that makes for a lot of "sides"!

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  10. I guess it depends on what you call chashuv. If going against a psak din is choshuv I guess you are right.

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  11. And Rabbi Forcheimer changes his mind again only those who were at the din torah can not oppose but everyone else should make sure not to make a chilul hashem. what pressure can do!

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    1. The dayanim are NOT BACKIMG DOWN! they are standing behind their psak that the shul can build as planned. Rabbi Forcheimer is not part of the BD he initialy stopped them from going to the planning board 2 years ago and asked that they arbitrate with the mikva representing westgate . They did and now he says others may go to oppose!! SMH

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  12. I think its Kdai to realize that Im Hashem Lo Yivneh Bayis ..... We should do our utmost to make sure every one knows how intolerable the lack of space is in The westgate shuls. I do think we should Honor Rabbi Helbergs wishes to not lower ourselves to arguing with them. Aside from the religious aspect it is worth bearing in mind this quote from Mark Twain
    "Never argue with stupid people.
    They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

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  13. There's a reason people have no trust in Rabbis. And it's the Rabbis to blame.

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  14. The fact that rAbbi FORCHEIMER changed his mind is of no importance (he clearly changed his mind as the other Rabbonim were clear that the original psak was for everyone) as these hooligsns were ready to oppose even before thos new relevation.

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  15. I would strongly urge everyone her to be very careful about talking about Rabbonim. This is especially true if it is based on third party information or rumor. All of the rabbonim involved gave their psak in writing and signed their names to the psak. Until you see something in writing with a signature that contradicts the previous psak I wouldn't pay any attention to these claims. Don't jeopardize your Oilam Haba based on silly desperate rumors.

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    1. they never changed their mind about the psak. Rabbi Forcheimer only said that he can't stop people from opposing it at the hearing if they choose not to care about his psak.

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  16. The neighboring townships are going to love this watching yidden get up opposing a existing shul because of traffic concerns. We call them anti semites for stopping a shul but here in lakewood we can oppose a shul with a heter of a Rav when Jackson, Toms river planning boards oppose shuls we can thank the rabbonim and westgate mafia for letting this happen.

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  17. Rabbi Forcheimer clearly stated the din torah was for everyone in westgate now because of presure he finds a technicality that there was no harshaah or kabolas kinyan and the psak din goes out the window? how can he flip flop on this? The dayanim though are not backing down at all and said the shul could build which means anyone opposing is going against the psak.

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    1. Do you have this in writing that he changed his mind? If not stop regurgitating nonsense!

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    2. That means that the mispallelim of R Helberg aren't bound by any limitations discussed in the psak din either.

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  18. Rabbi Forcheimer also said the olam from Jule, Cory or outside the shul area has no right to show up did they listen to him? NO. Ladies from Jule came to oppose the shul.

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  19. As I said in my previous comment stop making claims about what Rabbi Forscheimer said. He was one of the three dayanim that gave the psak and on Tuesday of parshas Yisro signed on the letter that he has not changed his mind and that NO ONE should go to the township and oppose the shul. Until someone can produce a signed letter to the contrary this psak remains valid. The letter with the psak and the signatures is posted above. Everything else is false rumors and distraction.

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  20. Gavriel Finkel told r Forcheimer to do it but he wont put his name on it. This is a total backtracking of what they forced Rav Helberg to do. Despite this circus the rabbonim are standing by their psak and therefore anyone opposing is contributing to a huge chilul hashem.

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  21. A a robo call is calling on all westgate residents to come down and oppose the shul due to tznius concerns. Yes we dont think a man should be involved so much with a mikva nashim having accesses to the place 24/7 is not tznius at all. After the recent incident with the mikva in Washington dc where the rabbi installed videos it has become more of an issue for a man to be involved with no oversight. Yes those are our tznius concerns.

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    1. The mikva is in the worst possible location there are many residents on Pressburg and Kingsfield who have a perfect view of what goes on there. So do the mispalelim who walk to Rav Vercheleiser and Ropshitz non of these concerns bother anyone. But when Rav Helberg an existing shul wants to expand and most of the mispalelim there dont even pass the mikva that is when they bring up tznius issues. Rav Chaim Kanievsky said Move the mikva when bmg purchased the kleinman campus and others tried playing the mikva card.

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    2. This whole tznius thing is total nonsense! Every development has a Mikva in the basement of the shul. All mikvaos in Brooklyn are noticeable. They are over sensitizing and issue for an agenda.

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  22. The שאלה was brought to R Chaim Kanyevski. After getting the full picture... בר מצרא on a shul, fighting it in ערכאות for more then 2 yeard, both sides settelagreed on on an a בית דין ,ignoring the פסק to continue fighting in ערכאות , The Nitva בהמ"ד דקעלמוואדס spent a fortune and changed the plans to abide with the פסק בית דין and acomodate the תובעים שמג and בר מצרות the infamous "תושבי וועסט גייט" . The the בית דין reissued their original פסק in writting so no one can can fight again in ערכאת they came up with a איינפאל to deflating the din torah, pressuring the daayn to retract from his writtenv פסק דין(BTW the dayan who retracted was added to the BD after the psak was issued by the first 2 dayanim,)

    Reb Chaim answered with out getting involved with the גוף הענין
    we have seen that those that attempt to obstruct the building of a shul or Mikvah have not been זוכה & seen נחת ר"ל.

    Reb chaims words were said peronnely to the מחלוקת today in Lakewood. But that is one more additions to all the קדמונים and all the Rishonim and אחרונים that would shout חי וקיים against the gentiles and the זיידים who stand up to fight agains a בית הכנסת .

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  23. If BMG wants to build would rabbi Forcheimer allow Lakewood residents to openly oppose in the planning board?? the answer we all know is lo mit an aleph. But there are always 2 sets of rules

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  24. Rabbi Forcheimer clearly said today that NO ONE has any right to bring up any tznius related issues at the planning board yet the Westgate maffia in a phone call have lied in his name!! they will stoop to any low to prevent a shul from being built.

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  25. I am a non-Westgate resident. Out of curiosity, why hasn't the builder allowed the development to use the other half of the big shul?

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  26. The people who are using Rabbonim for political points will yet rue the day they tried.

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  27. Simply put, when Hess and the gang beg for money to keep the big shul open, give him a penny and tell him where to shove it.

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    1. Just out of interest, is Rabbi Forschheimer aware that they used his name on the robo call, knowing as he does that the letter with his signature on it in the shuls favor is also being circulated? Does he not care that it basically makes him look like a wishy washy Rav with no backbone?!

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    2. If you daven and or learn in the shul, then pay membership, what does this fight have to do with paying your fair share? Hess is asking for membership to pay electric, tissues, water etc..

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  28. 2 questions

    1) why did rottenberg give helberg this land for free and not even give the other half of the shul to the 500 families that use it on a constant basis? http://njparcels.com/sales/1515_11.12_28

    2) Where does Rabbi Helberg have the money to build such a big Shul?

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    1. I cant blame Rottenberg look at the behavior now from the westgate mafia what have they done to him all these years? When you act like chayos people have no respect or shibudim to you.

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    2. 2 answers

      rotten berg sees all the garbage and doesn't want his few hundred tenants being held hostage by the mob.

      helberg can raise the money because he is well respected, with loads of supporters from in and outside of westgate.

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    3. With al due respect, MR. Rottenberg and RABBI Helberg!!!

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    4. "I cant blame Rottenberg look at the behavior now from the westgate mafia what have they done to him all these years?" please specify what has the "mafia" done to him? (and please don't say because one person sent out a letter about the mikvah 10 years ago)

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  29. Come one come all join the biggest chilul hashem in recent memory and come oppose a shul because of pure sinah. To bring up traffic in westgate of all developments the most condensed development in Lakewood is absurd. MIkva is another excuse the rabbonim said is a non issue. way to go lakewood perhaps Rechnitz can come back and give another speech to knock some sense in.

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    1. traffic is already bad in westgate so who cares to make it worse? is that seriously what you just said?
      and in terms of condensed developments , westgate actually has a lot more open space than any other place (due to CAFRA regulations)

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    2. Its an existing shul no new traffic and they are adding a parking lot cut out the nonsense.

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    3. its not about open land, its about how the infrastructure and houses were built. its the biggest mess in lakewood.

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    4. and you are fixing the mess...by forcing people to continue davening in cramped basements. thanks so much for looking out for us. wear a reflector because the rest of you is so transparent.

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  30. How sad. I live in Westgate. I don't daven in this shul. But as a community we are short 1000++ seats. By nisht fargining they won't let another shul prosper. Why doesn't the big shul try to think of way of attracting members of the caliber they seek instead of being on the offensive 24x7. If this isn't sinas chinam, I don't know what is. Yes, Rabbi Helberg has a beautiful crowd bli ayin harah. He earns it by being the tzaddik that he is. Never bashes another shul, just looks to be marbeh kvod shamayim in his own shul. May Hashem help that Westgate community overcomes their nisayon and do what Hashem wants!

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  31. Omein! Beautifully said. To the person who asked the 2 questions, I have 2 to ask too: a) who said they got the land for free, and b) what on earth is it your business where Rabbi Halberg gets the money from? If you want to donate go ahead! If not leave well alone!

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    1. i asked the 2 questions,
      1)i included a link in my previous post that showed the land was given by westgate to helberg for free
      2)just being nosy,
      your not actually upset at some anonymous person on a blog for being curious are you? i mean if every comment here was only posted if it was that persons business then there wouldnt be too many comments

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  32. Wow!!! Just got a phone call message from Rabbi Forcheimer himself dated today at 5:45 pm clarifying his position: one should not oppose the shul parking issues were resolved and tznius issues were resolved by chosen Rabbonim arbitrators and no night simchas

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  33. So... What happened tonight?

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  34. what's with the radio silence? your killing us.. what happened tonight?

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  35. It was pushed off until the next hearing in March.The opposing lawyer brought up some technicalities regarding deed restrictions and they have to clarify the issues.

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  36. Shocking!!! that yidden would get up in public hire a lawyer to oppose a shul. Shreklach what kind of midas hadin are we bringing upon ourselves?

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  37. totally just curious....
    whos paying for the opposing lawyer??
    bishloima helberg could hire a lawyer with money from the shul but where is the opposing money coming from???
    I hope not from the westgate shul membership fund.
    hatzlacha to all sides!!!!

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    1. They went around shnorring believe it or not thinking any decent person in his right mind would give money to hire a lawyer to fight a shul..

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  38. Interesting the westgate mafia have a soft side... for the environment and free space.. are they also treehuggers

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  39. Chutzpah- after Rav Forcheimer said very clearly not to oppose these mechutzafim showed up! These are mechanchim and social workers we trust our kids with??

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    1. Who were they? Please publicize the names of these michutzafim so everyone will know. And one day their kids will google their fathers name and be very proud

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  40. Litoieles harabim i commented on this site last night and now my ip address was blocked from the lakewood scoop

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  41. Why woud u go on the poop scoop in the first place. Its a no news site to begin with. And honestly they are extremely slanted .

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  42. Oh please we all know the zoning/planning board is a Kangaroo court. It can be like Soviet Russia where the psak is made up before the hearing . None of the rabonim signed it`s assur to oppose the building.
    What`s the big deal if the build a shul with proper roads and parking are they afraid people might feel good about themselves and take pride in a makom kadosh? What`s irresponsible with real foresight?
    It reminds me of the story when someone posted a Heichonu LeBias Moshiach sign on a wall in Yerushalayim an avrech passed by and wrote HoAmiti the Chabadnik putting up the sign was so infuriated he crossed it out!

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  43. How low can the westgate maffiah go to lie in the name of rav Forcheimer and be mevazeh him. The Rav had to personally leave a voice message to the entire westgate last night at 5:45 to refute what was said in his name by the mobsters. He very strongly reiterated his position that no one should oppose the shul at the township and all issues of tznius and parking have been dealt with by the arbitrating rabbonim

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  44. Why wont Heshy hisgr come himself to the hearing its no secret what he holds why keep sending people, he should show up himself with his cronies.

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  45. What a chilul hashem for a frum yid to get up publicly and talk against a shul. what was said could have been said about any shul in westgate or in Lakewood. Traffic? oy is there no traffic by ropshitz? Versheleiser? how about forest park? BMG? Ridge..thats life in Lakewood if you dont like it move elsewhere.

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  46. Another member of the westgate mob who moved out and does not live in WG showed up to oppose the shul. Yes, no one is of the opinion that he had any right to come but nebach he has pressure from the higher ups to show his allegiance to the Don.

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    1. He moved to Jule they consider it part of Wesgate.

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  47. My son asked me this morning what happened at the mmeeting can they start building the shul. I said not yet he asked why? are there goyim living in westgate that are against it? why wont they let a shul be built?. I bit my lip and in my mind i thought to myself.. what am i supposed to tell a 10 year old boy who has no seat in shul that it is not goyim but is in unzere supposedly Chashovei am that are misnaged how bad middos and jealousy can lead a frum person to do this. Of course they have all the excuses of traffic safety and tznius but it is only a mirage and a smokescreen to a deep rooted problem. Some of these misnagdim which is a handful are rabbonim, roshei mosdos its incomprehensible to think of what is going on. We always wonder how Korach vaadusoi went so far.. yet we see it playing itself out in front of our very own eyes.

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    1. For some reason it sounds like you are afraid to tell your son that it`s because of traffic and safety issues. Why would you be scared to do so? Is it because of your tremendous bikush HaEmes that doesn`t allow you to be dan another yid lekaf zechus ? or is it that maybe your child will wonder why are other tatty`s concerned about my safety but not my own?

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    2. Because than no father would bring their child to shul in Lakewood or any other frum community in urban areas if traffic was as issue. Aa a bais eliyahu alumnus you should have a better tefisa in a sugyah.

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    3. I am trying my best. Please explain . Tatty #1 would prefer the safety of his child but his priority is that his son have a seat in shul . Tatty #2 two prefers that safety for all children be addressed before building . From some of the commentators here I am supposed to think that Tatty #2 has no cheilek in olam habah for that priority . Please show me where I have erred.

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    4. i think tatty #2 should borrow his kids tzumi, and then they'll be safe

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    5. Totty #2 should have demonstrated against the building of Westgate or should move out as the streets over there are one huge safety hazard. All of a sudden everyone in Lkwd is worried about pedestrian safety!!!

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  48. Why did yudel shain suddenly take down this story off his blog?
    Did he get any new info???

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  49. בס"ד התקיים מחאה בערכאות נגד בנין בהמ"ד לע"נ מרן הגר"ח עפשטיין זצוק"ל כפי מסורת שקיבל ממרן רה"י הגרא"ק זצוק"ל...

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  50. Please also don`t forget that there was a video of the ladies who attended made by a very upgehitineh individual who is not a bar hirhur lezecher nishmas Rav Chaim as well to show to other people who are also as upgehiten as he is

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    1. How ironic ladies coming to municipal hearing getting up to speak about to nous issues about a mikva nashim no less.

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  51. Rabbi FORCHEIMER paskened that there's no issue to take videos.

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    1. I agree there was no Libyan on the agreement about no videos

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  52. Interesting and Important to Note:
    The opposition thugs (ie. the WestGate Mayor)
    hired the same lawyer used by the people of Jackson to oppose the Bais Yakov girls school's planing board application

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  53. With regards to tatty 1 vs tatty 2, I understand perfectly why he can't explain to his kid. How do you explain to a tayere yiddishe kind that the rotzchim and the shoifchei dam are yidden, frum yidden? How do you explain that the people coming to oppose the shul are going against every rov involved? How do you explain that these are the same people who used rabbi Forschheimer's name on their robo call forcing the rov to have to be mevazeh himself and send out a separate robo call clarifying his stand in this whole disgusting matzav that was created by people who have such kinah, sinah, gaavah and kavod that they defy description by any mentschliche person?!

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    1. My mistake , I thought Tatty #1 was the Chochma Umussar Kelm type However it sounds that Tatty #1 is an Ingrishe turned Yeshivishe so therefore we can assume that Tatty #1 already called Tatty#2 a Rotzeiach Baal Gaavah Kuvud Shmeker . If that is how Tatty #1 tells his son how to deal with people who don`t share his line of thought then he is takeh without recourse and must further bagrob Tatty #2 I guess serial killer and MeNaef would be his next choices . If Tatty #1 wins he can gloat and if he loses he will have the zechus to remain broigez ah gantz leiben and hold a chip on his shoulder. Nothing could be more enticing for him it`s a win/win situation

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  54. I still beg to understand how you tell your kid that the "fun unzere" people of the heiligeh "Lakewood Ihr HaTorah" go against a psak, and use a rov's name for their own sick purposes. We should rename the town, "Lakewood Ihr HaGaavah" or "Ihr HaSinah" or "Ihr HaKinah". At least that way we'll be able to explain these creeps to our children without muddling them up.

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  55. The answer is that you don`t have to tell your child anything. Adults are supposed to behave in an adult fashion and keep children out of shtot politics.
    Last I checked , one of the mitzvas HaAv al haben is not arein schlepin de kinder in politik .
    If you lack non-learning activities to bond with your child other than trash talk other yidden maybe take up a hobby with him like woodwork, fishing or a good old fashion baseball catch . I am sure you can come up a a few more

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  56. You don't need to drag your child into politics but he does deserve an explanation of why he can't daven with tatty

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    1. So Tatty can tell him that there is a safety issue that needs to be dealt with until he can have a seat. This way the child will be mechunach to act in the same when he is an adult.

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    2. Again, all those worried about these "safety issues" can move to ishbeming Kentucky. In Lakewood those "safety issues" aren't viewed as issues. Look around.

      And a father should 100% be able to have a seat in shul next to him for his son, be he 10 years old or 5. It's part of the basics of chinuch, texting your children to Daven and appreciate davening.

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    3. Yes . That is why we should be mechanech our children not to grow up and be corrupt builders who leach on to the naivete of yungerleit. Unless that is what you what you wish for your son teach him now that these things are priority instead of him trying to prey on pashute yidden

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    4. I would also reccomend that you speak with any Hatzalah member about these non-issues that you whisk away with the swipe of a hand . I would like to know if percentage wise Toms River and Jackson have close to the 911 calls that Hatzalah gets in Lakewood

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    5. Your son will truly have his seat oif yenems plaitzes

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    6. I've spoken to emergency responders. The issues they are bringing up are issues with the entire layout and infrastructure of west gate. What they are doing with the shul is not truly for the safety of children or tznius of the women by the Mikva. That's the issue.

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    7. Nobody is denying anyone right to daven with their son . The misspallelim there are so clueless how things work it`s to laugh. The worst case scenario for the shul is that they need to modify the wall near mikveh , streets parking and then they will use their victimization as leverage to allow them to have simchas after shkia (discount to members for the camerman) and the owners will laugh all the way to the bank $$$$$ and the misspalelim will have been useful pawns

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    8. Just the opposite the mafia has been exposed berabim and now that the entire lakewood was made aware of what was going on in westgate for 13 years they are all running for the hills. Chaim mordche mandel on behalf of the mikva took the shul to a din Torah they came out with a psak and a arbitration regarding the wall and fence near the mikva. Dont pretend now that you knew nothing about it. You dont want the shul because its too big. That is the truth but it dosent pass for a choshuva yid to be against a shul so your hiding the real reason but keep on bringing up the mikva traffic and parking issues which were all dealt with. When a rodef is exposed they pretend to be a nirdaf, sorry it wont work here.

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  57. Can we please get R' Rechnitz to speak about this matter?
    Talk about elitism and help us out like you did with schooling.

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  58. The people who are opposing the shul obviously have very different ideas of chinuch habonim! Their chinuch is that you ask s rov and when you don't like the psak you return it and go psak shopping to a different rov! Beauty is there's no date expiration on the returns!!

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    1. What`s the big deal with two different people having two different sets of approaches to life?
      It`s only insecure people who revert to name calling when they are faced with tough questions .
      Big people find solutions. Please talk to a Hatzalah member before you knock yenem
      It`s a peleh Bais Shamai was matir tzoras arayos to a yavama do you think people from Beis Hillel used to walk their kids home from shul and say that the bnai Bais Shamai are mamzerim ?

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  59. All these chinuch sailos about what to tell our kids about Tatty1 and Tatty2 and about sitting next to Tatty by davening, can be asked to the veteran mechanech specialist who lives in Westgate - Harav Mandel Shlita

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    1. If Tatty #1 or #2 wants to go to someone other than HaRav Mandel are they a baal gaavah mecharef megadef ferd or rotzeiach ? or can we find it in the goodness of our hearts to allow them to choose their own moreh derech

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  60. 9,000 sq ft shul? why in heavens name do they need such a big shul? and please, therye gonna have a simcha hall but never use it for brissim or bar mitzvahs during the week (as clamed by lawyer) gimme a break, hillary clinton wouldn't even attempt such a lie

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    1. I would expect such a comment from a anti Semite.

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    2. they definitely won't be able to fill such a large building...no reason to be concerned about traffic. empty buildings don't cause traffic.

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  61. Why waas it so easy to expose a family who they didnt like because the father was siding with his son who claimed to have been touched by a counselor and basically threw the entire family out . yet dont say boo to these westgate thugs /mechallei shem shamayim bifarhesya fr

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  62. I don`t think the word you are looking for is expose. Perhaps exile would be better. The reason is because there was a corrupt builder who was feeding false information to rabbonim who have since been mischaret. I find it ironic that people idolize these builders and agree that the beDieved they have created for the tzibbur became a lechatchila de facto "how things are in lakewood" It`s a greater chillul shem shem Shomayim when you ask someone who wants to build a makom kadosh if they consulted first with emergency responders as to the safety of this venture and they said "ummm.., i didn`t think if that " . Kamah mesukin maasav kamah naim derachav ....

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