Tuesday, January 19, 2016

Tonight hearing for BM of Kelmwoods at Planning board

proposed site plan for the shul

92 comments:

  1. Follow Twitter @lakewodreporter for updates during the meeting

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  2. Correction: Municipal bldng is on 3rd street

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  3. Where is Rabbi Zimbal's letter? if he supports this why is he letting his mispalelim continue to oppose this shul?? something dosent add up here. If he truly supports the shul let him come and show his support

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    1. They hired a lawyer to represent the anonymous misnagdim why is Rabbi zimbal allowing this??????? The Rabbonim all agreed the shul could go ahead as planned.

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  4. To all Parents of Toras Menachem if you have any influence on Rabbi Mandel please do all you can for the mishpachos of westgate so that they can have a shul to daven in.

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    1. very nice chinuch ignore a psak din when it dosent go your way.
      Do a maaseh zimri and ask for schar kepinchas presenting yourself like an ish hashalom!

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  5. To all youngeleit in BMG if you have any influence to reach out to the hanhala so they can in turn reach out to the Mayor of WG who is employed by them and is believed to be instrumental in the behind the scenes goings on.

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    1. Who is the mayor of westgate ?

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    2. I think he moved out of west gate

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    3. not employed but helps out with logistics.

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    4. Did he get the lower tax rate from Langert which shot back up?why do you think hes involved?

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    5. If he moved out of WG then he should no longer be on the board, as per bylaws that is reserved exclusively for residents.

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    6. He was never elected he's just well connected and he was called mayor he no longer lives in WG but his name is on all parlor meetings and he's hooked up with Menasha miller.

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  6. Rabbi Zimball said numerous times he has no control over the westgate maffia. Its not in his power to stop them.

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    1. Who is the westgate maffia if they are so strong why do they all hide behind their names? why do they always send others to be the shik yinglach for them?

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  7. Why is this rosh mosed and mayer of Westgate so unpopular in Westgate? (and it seems everywhere else as well) If people dont like them why cant the majority give them the boot?? In this country if the citizens hate someone they send them packing...

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  8. Why is MW from TBY apposed? He lives pretty far from there on a parralel street, which means he never needs to down that street because he can drive on NC to either Maple wood or Radon.....wonder...

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    1. Is anyone supposed to figure out what you wrote?! Dont drink before you post....

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    2. He's the big hero by the mafia nebach grown men still love attention which is exactly what he gets from the higher ups by acting up and rabble rousing.

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  9. So... What ended up happening at the meeting tonight? And while were at it, what's with the flea market, did it get approved?

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  10. Hearing was pushed over to the next planning board meeting. Thanks to the over 150 supporters who showed up. The previous cases on the agenda went way too long it was after 9 pm that the administrator callled for it to be moved to February 2nd

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  11. Special thank you to the husbands who stayed home to babysit and sent their wives to the hearing to oppose the shul there is only one word to say, COWARDS!

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    1. Not a coward, was busy preparing daf yomi shiur

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  12. was chaim mordche mandel there?

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    1. Why would he show if they sent the ladies or the shvugger

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  13. Why are people from Jule court coming to oppose the shul? they have no say on traffic or the mikvah or on any other narrishah tayna.

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    1. Who came from Jules

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    2. One of the wives of the founding vaad members. Behind every succesful man is a lady.

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    3. a choshuveh rebbetzin fun de meyasdim of shechunas vestgate

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  14. The olam moved out of WG to Jule and Cory but they still keep and hog seats in the shul when People who actually live in WG have no room or seats in Ropshitz.Dont call yourself a community shul when outsiders get privileges but locals are kept out.

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    1. As a mispalel of the main shul there is more than just an undercurrent of members who are just sick and tired of all this nonsense going on enough with yenems shul and traffic. Let hem build and focus on your own.

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  15. The thought of westgate having one shul is like saying the entire Har Nof should daven in one shul. Every little development in Lakewood has 2 shuls, westgate will sooon have iyh over 900 hundred families from many different backgrounds. There is already a chasidish shteeble a sefardi minyan , a carlbach minyan another basement shteeble, many residents walk out to other nearby shuls. instead of fighting and closing down other shuls the maffia should take care of themselves what have they built in the last 15 years?

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  16. There is a petition in the works for all toshvei west gate asking that no one outside of westgate should have a zechus for a seat in the shul until all current residents are assigned a seat.

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  17. I will no longer be paying any more membership dues to the Westgate shul until the Rabbi I am supporting with that money, Rabbi Zimbal, stands up publicly and defends both Rabbi Helbergs from the slander being said about them. Rabbi Zimbal got it wrong by signing against a BMG Rosh Chaburah some years ago, and he's getting it wrong again now by not speaking out. It's a shanda!!

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    1. "and he's getting it wrong again now" been getting it wrong for 12 years now! Ribono Shel Oilam, when is this Sinas Chinam and Kinah and Redifus going to stop?????

      I implore the members of Ropschitz to finally take a stand, do not sit by the sidelines any longer!! Shtika Kehodah. Storm down R' Zimballs doors and tell him it's us or the 5-10 mobsters.

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  18. I would like to clarify a few points. As a long time Westgate Resident everyone agree 100 percent that we need more Shuls. The issue people are having is there should a little more sensitivity to the building (Mikva ) next door. Noshim are allowed to have an opinion. They are very uncomfortable of having a shul so close.
    Why can't the Shul be a little smaller for there comfort. This is no different as on Pawnee neighbors are protesting a shul.
    The neighbors are very concerned that a 600 seat Bais Medrash will make a traffic nightmare. Again all neighbors want is to be a little smaller and more parking or maybe even widen the street . I don't think that is unreasonable.
    The gabbaim / Board of Bais Medrash of Westgate have no involvement with this. These are regular residents who just want a little privacy and a little more quality of life.
    Please stop politicizing to run with there agenda.

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    1. Who are you fooling...all the Chosheve Rebitzens who showed up last night (I will refrain from stating names for now) husbands have been darshening against the Helberg shul for the last 10 years. Cut it out, you're not fooling anyone besides for yourself.

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    2. As a long time west gate resident you obviously are spinning the issue. There was a Din torah with the mica who by the way came after the shul was already there. The dayanim and rabbinic all said the shul can be built.they looked into all the so called mikva issues they didn't feel it's a problem. There's a petition signed by hundreds of nashim ladies that they have absolutely no problem with the mikva. Most lkwd shuls have a mikva in the basement. Nebach these ladles are being used by power hungry individuals to control and promote their agenda. It takes a perverted mind to bring up the mikva issue. Why would a smaller shul make a difference? The truth is they want to stop the shul at all costs out of their jealousy and own failure to do anything constructive for 15 years since the days of 2 North crest.

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    3. No different than Pawnee...at least you got an education last night....Hope you enjoyed your night out with your friends.
      It was a true showing of Ahavas Yisroel at its best, neighbor against neighbor, 2 groups of ladies shmoozing each in their own corner, like color war. But for real!! 4 hours earlier you were shmoozing nicely with her, but now she is on the other team!!
      Here was your opportunity to be like the wife of Oin Ben Peles, but instead you go and make it worse. Shame on yourselves!!!
      On Pawnee there's a guy coming out of nowhere (Toms River actually if I am correct) and building a monster Yeshivah. Here it is for immediate neighbors. And the board cleared Pawnee, BTW.
      I would say that is why ladies should not be involved in these kind of things, but it seems your husbands are even more illogical here.

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    4. Women are allowed to have an opinion, sounds like womens lib here. Well I must say it's a great start. Here is a great resorce for further reference
      you might be interested in touching base with this Female Rabbi with your shealos, seems you are not satisfied with the Psak Din that the all man Beis Din gave.

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    5. You claim that these are regular residents who live in the nighborhood that are protesting??? Really, Does Rebitzen Dick who lives on Jule ct. live in the neighborhood? Does M Weiss from North Crest live in the neighborhood? I do know that every homeowner whose back yard will be facing the new shul is actively supporting the new shul. The claim that this is similar to the situation on pawnee is laughable. The majority of the people who are opposing the shul do not live in close proximity to the shul. Your pathetic attempt to give your actions legitimacy are pretty transparent. We know who and what you are, but most importantly the Ribbono shel oilam knows. I'm sure there is a warm place in Gehenom waiting for you.

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    6. You would like them to build a smaller shul??? There are approximately 1000 families in westgate. That means that there is a need for a minimum of 3000 seats. Currently there are less than 1000 seats available and you want them to build a smaller shul???

      You raise an interesting point about Noshim and the Mikvah. 1) This was already addressed by a Bais Din that specifically addressed this issue. 2) There are houses that are in closer proximity, and have better sight lines to the mikvah, than the shul. 3) There will be adequate privacy fencing to give you as much privacy as a mikvah located at the crossroads of westgate can have. 4) There were far more noshim at the hearing in support of the shul than those opposing it, I’m sure they value their privacy and tznius. The difference is that they recognize the reality that the new shul will not exacerbate the lack of privacy. That is what happens when you build a Mikvah on the main street in the center of a residential neighborhood.

      As far as traffic, safety, and parking, the shul has addressed those issues. They are building on a non-residential street, they have done a traffic study to see what the impact of the shul will have on traffic and have found it to be negligible. If anything the report showed that it will alleviate some of congestion. The shul is putting in a large parking lot which will reduce street parking. That will create more room on the street for cars etc…

      My point is, all of this was explained to you or your spouse or your cronies. You simply don’t care. You don’t want this shul built in any size. You fought it when the shul was trying to build a building half the size. You have an agenda that has nothing to do with any of the issues you raised. Why don’t you be honest and share with us the real reason you don’t want this shul to be built!!!!

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  19. how come these choshuve noshim never shrei'd chay vekayom when the Mikveh was being built even though you couldn't get a more public place for a noshim Mikveh if you tried?! What happened to their tznius and privacy then? Or did they become more frum over the years?

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  20. A rav who lives in westgate sent his rebbetzin to oppose the shul I wonder what his mispalelim would do when they go for expansion of there own shul how about the mikva there do they have to walk all the way to williams?

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  21. Stop playing the l'shaim shomayim shtick. It's not l'shaim shomayim at all - opposing a shul is l'shame ul'disgrace!!!

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  22. Chaim mordche mandel should put a stop to this. If he accepts the din torah as he claims to have done let him publicly issue a letter in the name of the mikvah that there are no issues per the psak din. Otherwise the continuing opposition and redifos of the entire Kelmwoods tzibbur and those many supporters in and outside of wetgate are on him.

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  23. Rabbi Helberg and his brother r' pinchos do so much for the entire Westgate, NOT just for mispallelim of their shul. It is done quietly, behind the scenes and without fanfare, definitely not for the kovod sheboi! (I know this for a fact as I am a recipient). Are people so sick that they can't fargin these special mentschen their shul, which is being built again to help the klal?

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    1. Agree 100% they could have taken the lot and put up 2 apt buildings and retired comfortably. They are TZADIKIM! And those who are rodef them are asid liten es hadin.

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    2. Where were all these noshim tzidkoniyois when the Mikveh was being built? The chosen site for the Mikveh is about as public as you can get but no one shrei'd then. Also it's interesting that all the ladies who came to oppose it are wives of people who are known to be machers and noisemakers. Plenty of women use the Mikveh on a nightly basis seemingly without an issue. Anyone who doesn't like going there could use one of the many other Millais around town. Also, how come these same ladies don't shrei about the men who without thinking stand schmoozing on the corner of hillside and kingsfield on the way home from shul on Friday night!!!!!!!

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    3. Why are people always heckling and harassing rabbi Helberg and r' PInchos who bend over backwards to do something PRODUCTIVE for the klal? Could it possibly be because people are jealous of the mitzvahs and Massim toivim of this special duo? Because they actually help as many people as they can in the most bekovodike way? Because when they help someone it's done with no strings attached? Because they are strong enough to stand up to baseless accusations and opposition? The riboinoi shel oilom should continue to bentsch these special brothers with Brocha vehatzlocha. Keep up the amazing work you do. I am PROUD to be a mispallelim of Bais medrash d'kelmwoods!!!

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  24. I have friends in Westgate that tell me their twelve year old son barely knows how Shabbos davening goes because there is no room for him in Shulso he never goes.

    Is there legal fund for Rabbi Helbergs shul I can donate to?

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    1. Anyone sending a check for Helberg's shul should write in the memo line "building campaign". Tizku lemitzvos!!!

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  25. You can send a check made out to Bais medrash of kelmwoods to 47 kelm woods ave. all donations will be very much appreciated. Tizku lemitzvos

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  26. You can send a check made out to Bais medrash of kelmwoods to 47 kelm woods ave. all donations will be very much appreciated. Tizku lemitzvos

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  27. can someone fill me in on what the rosh hamosed has to do with this or with westgates mikva

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  28. Where were all these noshim tzidkoniyois when the Mikveh was being built? The chosen site for the Mikveh is about as public as you can get but no one shrei'd then. Also it's interesting that all the ladies who came to oppose it are wives of people who are known to be machers and noisemakers. Plenty of women use the Mikveh on a nightly basis seemingly without an issue. Anyone who doesn't like going there could use one of the many other Millais around town. Also, how come these same ladies don't shrei about the men who without thinking stand schmoozing on the corner of hillside and kingsfield on the way home from shul on Friday night!!!!!!!

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    1. On their way back from Ropchitz which is really a much bigger problem for tge mikva

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    2. Have you totally lost your mind? The people schmoozing are from the shul a few blocks away but none from the shul a few feet away????? How about those who stand around next to their cars every single night? I spoke to R' Helberg about it many times but nothing ever changes.

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    3. A big chelek of the mispalelim from Ropshitz live in the older side of westgate they all walk past the mikva. Did you also speak to all the residents who live in the building across the mikva on kingsfiels and Pressburg? did you speak to Rav Vershleiser about the traffic backup from the shul that goes to the mikva?? apparently not because your agenda is that Rav Helberg should not have a shul because you nebach cant fargin.

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    4. I daven by R' Helberg plenty and will be delighted for there to be a bigger shul there. To stick your head in the sand regarding issues which have some level of legitimacy will not help you get anywhere. Stop being so paranoid! Do you really think that the minyan on Kingsfield is a comparison to a R Helberg's shul as it is now?!?!? All the more so when hopefully the new one is built. It just needs to be done with sechel. Blindly attacking everyone who says that any prat could be improved is not called doing it with sechel. The people who want there to be no solution will end up falling to the side no matter which side they are on. If those wanting the shul will only fight they will end up with an empty building. If those against the shul will only fight they will ruin other things for themselves. There are so many possible answers to all of the issues if only even one of the sides would actually step off their pedestal.

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    5. Unknown, exactly you know nothing talking like a politician. The issues have all been thought out planned and engineered with traffic studies and impact studies. There was a bais din that looked into all the arising issues and the shul took care of it. Its not these little pratim that they want to change they dont want R Helberg to have a shul!! period. With these people there is absolutely no negotiating. As a mispalel by Kingsfield its been numerous times when bus drivers come into shul during davening because cars are blocking the road and they cant get through. Have you done anything about that?? use your seichel think before you try to present yourself as a level headed smart guy.

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    6. I agree that on Kingsfield it is a problem WHat exactly do you think I should do about it? You say you are a mispalel there-you do something about it!

      What does that have to do with making something already a problem into a bigger one?

      Traffic studies?!? you mean like the ones which say you don't need to widen the 9? Do a traffic study at 8-8:30 and you will have different results.

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    7. Specifically when the Rosh Yeshivas son van was blocking. As he had the amid there. And now the Rosh Yeshivas son is concerned about traffic.

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  29. Id it any wonder why so many tradgedies are happening every other month in westgate? Its about time the sinas chinom stops once and for all!

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  30. Congregation Olam Chesed Inc is the name on the zoning board application. Maybe the check should be written out in that name.

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  31. There is no seating shortage at all. there are not many men or husbands in west gate. They are thrown out with restraining orders after the rav gives the wives a heter not to go to the mikva. Yes the very same mikva the ropshitzers are soo concerned about. the mikva they all walk by on Friday night, the mikva that they stand in front of and shmooze on the way back from shul. These men were forced out of westgate and had their children taken away from them. The amount of gerushos and single mothers in WG is on the rise. Many of these cases were easily preventable but inexperience, incompetence and other factors led to the current situation. So all problems are solved. there are no men around so plenty of seating and no concerns about the mikva since the women who are married get a heter not to go and all the others are divorced seperated etc..

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    1. lol, your nuts but still funny to read

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    2. Funny if it were not true but unfortunately its the sad reality.

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  32. Why is RH keep on spining and spreading misinformation. They are claiming the bais din did not see the updated plans. The BD in fact DID see the new plans and signed off on it. Following the din torah BM of Kelmwoods had to make some changes which made them add more parking spaces thus adding more footage to the proposed building. NH and RH went running to Rav malkiel on Erev Shabbos that they changed the plans in an attempt to stop the hearing. Rav Malkiel said go back to the BD they BD was shown the current plans and they said go ahead there are no problems. NOt only that but the size of the building was never an issue at all. despite a clear psak and heter to proceed wit the planing board the unraitzers and maffia hired an attorney (Who backed out as soon as he saw there is nothing to fight)and they sent 10 ladies to the hearing to oppose the shul.

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  33. It's not hilarious at all. It is so sick it's unbelievable! In 1933 a megalomaniac came to power and stopped shuls being built! Is this Chas vesholom history repeating itself?!

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    1. Are you actually comparing this to Hitler and the Nazis? You are either a complete idiot or have no sense of or sensitivity to History.

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  34. What would you compare it to? You have a megalomaniac who is killing others in order to keep his power. Killing people can be done many ways!!

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    1. And I thought no-one in Kelmwoods has internet. Maybe they're posting from the library?

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    2. It could be they dont have internet but Rav halberg has many supporters who dont actively daven in the shul. There is a tremendous amount of support from within and even outside westgate. People want others to succeed especially when there is lacking seating and are fed up with the baseless opposition.

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    3. I have no opinion on R Helbergs shul one way or the other, however if you really care about the lack of seats in westgate shuls, then why don't you voice you opposition against the builder of westgate who has an empty room sitting in Ropshitz which he refuses to give over the keys to, all the while putting up another apartment building every month or so, and buliding the entire Jule Ct.

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    4. Or the comments are all by the same one or two people....

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  35. Agreed! When the opposition is so stupidly transparent in their attempt to legitimize their ulterior motives, then most mentschliche people would choose to support Rav Halberg and his shul

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  36. 323 will come to the rescue Now is the opportunity to put this saga to an end its 13 years of redifos against Rav Helberg and his kehilla. Genug shoin.

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  37. Dont blame the builder for a lack of seats. He offered to give the shul to a Rav who used to have a shul in westgate guess what happened the askanim and vaad did everything in their power to stop this rav from getting the shul. so now they have nothing but thats not enough they also want to stop Rav Helberg from building.

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    1. Are you kidding me? Don't blame the builder? Rav Zimbal has the full support of the enitre west gate community, is an incredible Rav, who gives over so much of his time and kochos to west gate. He is the Rav and that is his Shul, you don't like it, so move. In that shul sits an empty room (the same size as the main BM) thatbthe builder refuses to give over to the hundreds of people that daven there every day, and bought houses from him or pay rent every month to him. It's completely the builders fault, and it's disgusting, I don't know how this person goes to sleep every night.

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  38. It is interesting how the comments here are full of people (or maybe one person over and over again) vilifying R Zimbal and the members of his shul. Meanwhile not one comment here has vilified R Helberg in the slightest. Yet over and over again we are seeing the accusations of that being done by the same ones who are busy complaining. I guess kol haposel bimumo posel. We can see that some of the Helberg mafia will only be happy if they bring down R Zimbal. That is why they prevented Ropshitz from being given over to the community shul and the Rov brought in by the community who has the support of all of Lakewood's Roshei Yeshiva and Poskim. This garbage about the shul going to this rov or that is all a distraction to prevent it from going where it should. They even tried that when Ropshitz was opening it shouldn't go to the original shul which would end up left on the street. Then they say how it is R Zimbal trying to keep them small. It is just the opposite.

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    1. More spin, the Ropshitz olam could have got the shul long ago had they not started with the builder. It is all their own doing its not even the choshuva tzibbur but a few yechidim who are holding the entire tzibbur hostage. Why was Rav Walkin forced to close that he moved away? No one is vilifying Rav Zimbal or any other Rav nice try to spin it that way. However it's been 13 years of fighting rabbi Helberg by some yechidim and the olam has had enough. How true the words of chazal Binyan nearim stira

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    2. R' Walkin was forced to close and move away? Which toilet did you pull that out of? His minyan in WG is still there now and even when he was there didn't even fill a half a townhouse basement. He was renting a house and moved to a larger and nicer house on a nice property. He was forced to do that? Would it really be right that the smallest minyan is WG should get the big shul? You guys will do and say anything to push R Zimbal down!

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    3. As you have so eloquently expressed "The community" means me. I thing that is the root of the the problem here. ANI VEAFSI OID.

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  39. I haven't seen anyone vilifying R' Zimball here rregarding this issue. (there was maybe 1 comment regarding a get or seperation story maybe - which is an issue that has to be dealt with) It seems the only value the Rosh hayeshiva imparted to his son is not to have interent. You can get live coverage of the The R Helberg bashing every Shabbos form 10-11:30 in front of the Shul named after the R"Y ZT"L, who is turning over in his grave right now.

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  40. Your comment about leaving ropchitz on the street is totally unfounded and you know it. the whole handelari was about the upsatirs shul in Rochitz. And Rabbi Halperins minyan would have stayed in Radin, so no one would have been on the street besides for a few people egos.
    Do you make up the facts as you go along? This is getting really sick and pointless - total denial of reality. the 5% of the oilam who you mobsters had fooled have now realized your corruption after the opposition showed up in court after they lost in Beis Din.
    Seems they will stop at nothing, to their undoing, the few supporters who they had, are now embarrassed to be associated with them. Everyone is running from them like the plague that they are, and washing their hands from their despicable behavior .

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  41. No it was not only about the upstairs shul. I was there and remember it well. It being about the upstairs shul was only later on.

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  42. That was your paranoia at work, the same paranoia that thinks R' Helberg wants to make himself the Main Rov of westagte.

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  43. To the person who's convinced that everyone is vilifying rabbi Zimbal, my question is, how come that bothers you but when people are slandering rabbi Helberg and r' PInchos left right and center that doesn't bother you? Why doesn't rabbi Zimbal speak out against the slanderers if he feels they're wrong? Maybe if he would stand up to the bullies no one would say anything that could be interpreted as vilifying! Keeping quiet when 2 ppl are being geshochten is like you're agreeing with them.

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    1. Well over here that is not happening at all. You are talking about something which only you see.

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    2. Oh please! Come on, who are you trying to fool? All the "nashim tzidkaniyos" who came to oppose are wives of people who have been out to kill since the shul opened!

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  44. RE: Blaming the builder
    You can thank our tiyara chaver, R' CM for the builder being upset at WG community. After the builder signed a 100k areivus for the mikva they turned around and sent out pachkevilin on Reb Daniel.
    It is the same reason that he is not willing to donate (or give at a substantially lower price) the lot next door to the mikva for a parking lot, which would have solved all these problems.
    If we looked at this honestly everyone would realize that getting R CM out of the picture would solve alot of the problems in WG.

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