Wednesday, November 25, 2015

An easy registration year, halevai

Parents of girls entering primary can breath a sigh of relief. According to report in The Voice, from an anonymous source there are more available slots, than primary age students for the upcoming school year. This does not mean one will get in at the school of their choosing. Neither can one be lax in the tznius area since getting in is a guarantee. One may think perhaps there is no need to worry about the length of a sheitel or skirt, fathers can proudly wear a colored shirt, and take it easy as they have an upper hand. A word of caution dont expect it to be any different, not everyone will get accepted so fast, the schools will still adhere to the same standards it expects and rightfully so. More so you can not trust these anonymous sources.    

41 comments:

  1. what do you mean by "rightfully so"? maybe rightfully so by halachos of tznius but colored shirts?
    The problems begin when tznius and colored shirts are lumped as one. yes, the younger generation is all confused,they dont know where the lines of halacha, minhag and yeshivish are drawn.

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    1. Have you seen how ladies in town are walking around. 4 inches covered below the knee may be minhag but a skirt above the knee is definitely against halacha and a breach in tznius.

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  2. Yes. But according to some of the recent commenters here, all the girls schools are reshoim for not accepting anybody without exception. Doesn't matter how the girl or the mother dreses you must accept her even if your class is full. And even if she will bring down the ruach of tzniys in the school it does not matter to these commenters. Its all gaava yo eant to have a school where the students are taught to appreciate old fadjioned tznius. Which you cant do if the mothers dont believe in it

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  3. I'm having major problems right now with my son. He goes to a school in Lakewood with standard Lakewood haskofas. All parents sign every year that their children have no movies or internet access. Of course they really do and talk about it all the time. It was a newer school when I registered him there and I was naive enough to believe the line that all Lakewood Mosdos are schools you would be thrilled with if you lived out of town

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    1. Im sorry . There is nothing you can do about it . If the school wants to be selective to try and raise the standards of the parent body , it is Gaava, Gaava .

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    2. Huh? It's gaaveh that neither I nor my sons school want him exposed to movies?

      The schools who realize that some parents have no problems signing their name on LIES year after year so they are more selective are motivated by Gaaveh?

      Are those who are moley sheker completely innocent in why schools don't want their children?

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    3. Yes. Every school has to accept every child that wants to come regardless of whether or not they might have influenced on yoyr child that you dont want. If not its pure Gaava and midas Sedom. At least according to most bloggers. And then you want to know why people are not interested in kaking schools.

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  4. Did u see the poops article about a lady wearing an inappropriate bathing suit. Is there a appropriate bathing suit. So much for keeping clean and not reporting shmutz.

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    1. I don't look at that site but now I'm really curious. My k9 filter will save me.

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    2. The scoop is like so 80's. Get with it pal, in 2015 we have HV.

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  5. How about all the schools try to adhere to the aseres hadibros first. Nowhere does it discuss colored shirts or even skirt length. We all know that Tznius standards have waxed and waned throughout generations depending on the culture surrounding us. We always looked different, but one generations tznius standards differed wildly from another. My grandmothers long skirt would not pass muster with a typical Bais Yaakov dress code, and I am sure she would be appalled to hear there is a four inches below the knee rule.

    But the good old Ten Commandments:

    1. "I am the Lord your G-d, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

    2. "You shall have no other gods before Me.

    3. "You shall not take the name of the Lord your G-d in vain

    4. "Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy.

    5. "Honor your father and mother, so that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your G-d gives you.

    6. "You shall not murder.

    7. "You shall not commit adultery.

    8. "You shall not steal.

    9. "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

    10. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, his manservant, his maid-servant, his ox, his ass, nor anything that is your neighbor's."

    Remember those?
    How many schools require that those be kept? How many schools have bestowed honors on those that do not keep many of them?
    It just may be a good time to go back to the good old Ten Commandments and forget all the petty rules about colored shirts and hair length.
    Because what is 4 inches today may just be 6 or 3 next year, and blue may become the new white.
    But stealing will always be stealing, no matter what.

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    1. Well said. You can keep 10 commandments, the rest of us will try to keep 613. We will do that by strengthening our VALUES and WAY OF LIFE as religious Jews. And wig length according to any orthodox Rabbi is not a "petty rule". and yes frum haskafos, priorities, outlook, and principles are "discussed" at length in thousands of seforim for thousands of years.
      One concept Hershkowitz, that is accepted by virtually everyone frum and non frum, Jew and gentile is not being BITTER, and oh yes, NOT LOOKING DOWN AT OTHERS! vihamevin yavin

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    2. Mr Hershkowitz You are certainly entitled to your opinions and Hashkofas . You are also entitled to be mechanech your precious children any way you please . However there is a large group of people living here that have different opinions and hashkofas than you . They may feel that skirt lenghths and other such petty things are very important to them. Thery are also entitled to be mechanecvh their children as they please . There are many schools that cater to these parents .You are definitely welcome to create your own schools in line with your hashkofas but its not right to expect these schools to welcome parents that dont share the same hashkofas .

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  6. Yes its Gaava Gaiva gaiva if we don't want our kids exposed and influenced by kids with movies, books, social media and language that we feel isn't healthy for our children. Its total gaiva if we care for our children's welfare. Gaiva is the only reason some school would turn down kids who's mothers wigs are longer than their skirts. And of course its gaiva that we don't want our daughter to dress like that as well...

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  7. Perhaps you misunderstood.
    My comment was intended to make two points on this heated issue.
    1.i don't believe that tznius can so easily be classified by a specific measurement or color of a shirt. I know many men that only wear white shirts that are far from tznius in their actions or lifestyle. I only wear white shirts out of habit. Does that make me holy? Far from it.. Yet I know many men that like to wear blue shirts that never miss a minyan, are careful in their speech, and learn every minute they can.
    Similarly there are women that although they might technically be tznius, are far from it.
    Simply put. YOU KNOW TZNIUS WHEN YOU DON'T SEE IT.
    The rules you speak of are used to exclude perfectly wonderful jews from schools because they may not fit the image of the school or simply because some yenta is telling the school loshon Hora about the family.. Yes that is very often the case.. And that brings me to point number two.
    2. Very often schools honor people that have a hard time even keeping the ten commandments. People lax in all areas that are the core of Judaism.
    Sometimes the gatekeepers themselves that comment on the color of a woman's lipstick or the tightness of her skirt, are themselves not the type of people that should have their kids in school with your children.
    It is not a simple issue. It seems in 6 years I have gone full circle. This topic was what got me started on the Lakewood Scoop discussing the hypocrisy of school acceptance. So let me end it here by saying that many of us now know that Kol Hapoisul Bemumoi Poisul.
    And if you think I am bitter about something. You really got the wrong guy. Like I said, maybe check your PH balance first before you call someone else bitter. I am not bitter at all. I just saw too many good people get hurt. And I would like to publicly apologize now to all those that were hurt and I didn't shout loud enough. I tried, but perhaps I should have tried harder.

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    1. "I am not bitter at all". Seems many folks perceive you otherwise. My little kid sometimes yells shes not angry while shes having a tantrum. She truly believes so. So should we believe her? Or user our own judgment.
      I think anyone looking for the truth will agree we should all try to improve in areas of bein adam lechaveiro and bein adam lamakom. The issue with your comments are: Who do you think you are?! Judging others. Putting others down. Looking down at people. So Harold gets to decide how people should dress based on his opinion of what madreiga he feels each person is on. Harold decides how people should try to bring up their children. If I prefer sending my child to a school where I feel my child wont be influenced negatively by other children, that's a bad thing! Is protecting our children from physical harm also a bad thing? No your not trying to say that? Oh, so you were just trying to say that you get to decide whats a negative influence based on the fact that you understand everything and the rest of us here in Lakewood don't understand anything!
      HOW CLOSED MINDED CAN YOU BE?!

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    2. Can I call you an idiot since you are anonymous? I mean you obviously don't really stand by your beliefs if you can't sign your name. Oh, I understand, you can't sign your name because the school that you signed a paper that you have no Internet would kick your child out of school.
      OK. So now you are not an idiot. You are a coward and hypocrite. But you are also a person with really bad reading comprehension.
      I never said that tznius rules were stupid or unimportant. What I said was that the same people that are instituting and enforcing these rules are not doing it leshaim shomaim. They are arbitrary and change from year to year on a whim. I agree that the people you see that are obviously modern orthodox yet want to be included in frum schools should step up to the plate and change their ways if they want to be accepted. But unfortunately that Is not what happens. They see the hypocrisy and want to be included. While the really frum people get a cold shoulder. I have frum friends who have no Internet, don't know how to send an email, born in Lakewood whose children are in a Kollel having grandchildren rejected from schools, while people like you with Internet. Are getting in.
      So, you see. You misunderstood me.
      I am saying we need schools to allow the real frum people that don't need to lie about their Internet, because they don't have it. We need them to stop looking for the ones that have money connections over parents that want a good religious education. They have to stop accepting girls that are thin and pretty over a girl that is overweight and awkward,and then espouse their expertise on tznius. Telling a mother her lipstick is too red is in itself not tznius, especially when the women herself is very careful. Perhaps color blind, but careful in tznius. Discounting a father because he works hard cleaning sewers in order to pay his tuition without stealing from others, and learns whenever he can.
      Too many stories like this have happened to have a hypocrite like you defend this unjust system.

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  8. Whew! this place is really bangin it out! I think these discussion's are good!

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    1. Yes! I feel like it's 2010 all over again. Haha

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  9. I send one of my children to an extremely yeshivish school. Probably one of the hardest to get into at this moment. They are extremely selective who they allow in. If I were to apply today I doubt I would be admitted. I love the school. I respect their hashkofos and agree with all the rules, even those that others might think are silly. Yet With all these protections, my daughter came home telling me crazy stories that one of the girls told her about who her mommy is dating, and the things her mommy does. A situation which was warranted where a child that was absolutely not up to the standards of even the most modern school, remain in this very frum school. This was done under the demands of daas torah. I didn't question it. I discussed it with my daughter and she understood. Every day she came home and I asked her what she was told and we discussed it.
    Now, since you obviously know me so well, and even how I taste, you would know that I respect everyone's level of frumkeit as long as it doesn't hurt others or cause a chillul hashem.
    Unfortunately the rules of tznius do NOT apply to everyone equally. I will say it one more time. There were many instances where perfectly tznius, very truly frum families whose children wouldn't know what a Disney Princess is, were rejected from schools that were perfect for their child simply because they didn't have the right last name. And those that rejected them are questionable if they should be included in a minyan. You get me? ! I am not discounting any rules. I don't think a child that has an iPad should be allowed in your cheder. But unfortunately they all too often are as long as they have the right connections and the father looks the part while some "harry" is rejected for not fitting the right image.
    I am not bitter, but now I am angry for all the pain that certain people caused to very holy good people. I am not including myself in this group, and I have no anger towards anyone for myself. I am moichel. I understand desperate people do stupid things. But I know many that will never recover from the pain that was caused to them. And trust me, some of these people I suspect have a direct line to the big guy himself.
    And chutzpa of making fun of R' Shteiman. He knew exactly what he was talking about. Better than you. And if I had a schooI I would reject any person that could question THE Das torah of our generation

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  10. The schools that took anyone in did not make it. It's unfortunate but the only way for a school to take off is by being selective than everyone wants to go there. If you get a majority of parents that are in kollel or chinuch that's a solid foundation for a healthy mix. Other wise you won't last.

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    1. Yes, but unfortunately most of the children you see smoking by the lake on Shabbos are the children of these coveted parents. We created a vicious circle where most schools were created as a means of a livelihood for the owners. In order to succeed, their main concern must be the image of the school over the needs of the children.
      A successful school is one that has a strong demand and a parent body that is a good mix of well connected, well-regarded, charitable, and or wealthy people. A successful school is one that gets real estate from the town and then finds a way to sell it to a developer and remain tax exempt. A big dinner that has the most popular honorees is always a sign of a healthy school. How about a flashy ad campaign with some cutting edge marketing to announce a new building?
      A very wise friend of mine once said that when a lot of people open a restaurant, first they think up a catchy name. Then they hire a decorator, spend thousands of dollars to make a fancy place. Then they sit down to admire their work. Then they realize they haven't thought about what they will serve.

      What are our schools serving? Image is nothing. What hashkofos are our children getting? The few times that I have spoken to any so called off the D kids, I noticed one thing, they were taught a lot of rules, but they had no idea what the rules were for.

      This is not meant as an indictment of the many excellent mechanchim and mechanechos who work very hard to impart yiras shomayim and ahavas hashem into every child that crosses their path. Unfortunately there are more children than these special people can handle and all too often many fall by the wayside.

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    2. "most of the children you see smoking by the lake on Shabbos are the children of these coveted parents."
      This is an absolute lie. This might be what you wish was the case, but its not. You shouldn't publicize your bigoted fantasies.
      Ive heard this nonsense before. Always from disgruntled bitter people.
      saying this wont change your sad state. You will always feel the way you do.

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    3. Oy, I wish it were not true, but it really is. Ask the people involved. I am not being disparaging of anyone. I am just stating facts, The most sheltered Chasidim are going off at an alarming rate. Perhaps it is time we reassess our ways of doing things and confront our problems head on, rather than denying them.

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  11. Had you not said your not bitter right after cursing out thousands of frum yidden here, in the same paragraph, and in the past many many times, I might have took you seriously. None the less I will try to answer you as if you are not detached from your own obvious reality. (The mirror is an amazing thing. With a quick glimpse, the "what is everyone staring at" question disappears).
    Just as an aside, the story with your daughters friend sounds very unusual. Why does she tell these things to your daughter? Does she tell this to everyone? Just saying.
    No one is saying our system is perfect. But there is so much more perfection in it that its hard to always be harping on imperfections. It takes a certain type of person to be the guy to eat breath and sleep all the bad in out system.
    So yes, there are imperfections.
    And you Harold are gonna be the guy to stand up and put your name out there in pointing them out. Your gonna sacrifice, and be a true hero!
    Your willing to sacrifice...like a karbon tzibur.
    Your willing to put your children's, schooling, Judaism, shiduchim on the line to perfect the system.
    Your willing to sacrifice your business, your livelihood, your name, your health(!) for this. (How about olam habah?)
    I don't think I have to tell you (or maybe I do) that there are people, and not a few of them, that will not step foot into your stores.
    The mention of your name is often said with laughter, or other facial gestures that one would make when referring to the unhinged state.
    But no its all worth it in your eyes. Your gonna save us all and perfect us.
    But let me tell you something zeeskite, your such a tzadik. And your mamash leshem shamayim. And every negative thing you say is obviously letoeles. And your giving us so much nachas. And the way you care for our gedolim and daas torah! Yoysh! Its amazing! Were so proud of you sheifaleh!
    But im sorry to tell you, you can stop publicly shechting yourself for everyone. Cus your just making a spectacle out of yourself and those around you, without any return.
    Most of us are fine living with this closest to perfect system there is in this world,
    even if it means living with its minute imperfections (relative to its beauty), while focusing on perfecting OURSELVES. And I stress: while focusing on perfecting OURSELVES. Most of us realize there are "bad people" in every society. And sadly yes, we in Lakewood have some too, only less. And yes, sadly there are people that are power hungry, and there are those that have other type of bad midos that hurt other people. There are people that are balei lashon horah (not gonna say their names c.v.), baalei machlokes, michalel shem shamyim. There are people that will go to gehenom for all types of aveiros. But who am I to stand here and curse them out? I also have my own faults and bad midos.
    We all have faults. So why not instead of pointing fingers at other peoples faults, point your finger at your own faults (a mirror might help).
    I'm fine living in this closest to perfect system. As long as I'm not hurting anyone and I'M working on perfecting MYSELF.This way it can only get better. The overwhelming majority seems to feel the same. And the reason I'm not signing my name has nothing to do with my kids school. Banning the internet was over years ago. The schools today are obsessed with filters. And rightfully so.
    But even if it were the case that Im scared to sign my name because of my kids school. Im fine with that as well. Its a small price to pay for living in a near perfect system.
    Truthfully the main reason Im not signing my name is simply I don't have the time and patients to make these discussions a full time job the way you do. You see, many of us have a life.
    The secondary reason Im not gonna sign my name, here specifically, is because honestly I'm scared of you. I don't want to have to "not recover from the pain that you might cause me". And I know you have a different set of rules than most of us in regard to dealing with dispute.



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    1. Rabboisei please attack the issues not each other.

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    2. This reply is hilarious! and I do agree with some of your points.
      You dont have enough time? lol!! this is the longest response in HV history...

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    3. I totally agree there is so many nice things that we do here in lakewood. Even the ones that HH is bashing, Im sure they do great things as well. Exactly! are we all tazadikim to sit here and blog against others??
      So yes we should work on ourselves but I do think we should not ignore people who do bad things.

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    4. Sorry, but I rarely talk about negative things. I talk about our responsibility towards others. That is far from negative. And as far as being scared of me? C'mon, I never hurt a fly. OK I hurt many flies. I never tried to hurt anyone .They usually end up hoisting themselves on their own petard. All the best. And thank you for calling me zeeskeit now. That was fast. I went from bitter to zees in just a few posts. Now if you will excuse me. I will no longer be responding because I am too busy with my businesses and checking on shidduchim.
      As for my reasons to be writing on this website? It is simply because I want to help promote a free and open forum to discuss issues to better our town. Bettering our town is not negative.
      Thank you Hefkervelt for allowing free and open discussion, even allowing horrible negative rants like the one by Mr. anonymous.

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    5. is that see you soon? Or goodbye? either way, baruch shapatrani!

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    6. Checking on shiduchim? huh?

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  12. Dear "Zeeskeit" You said it all, "I'm working on perfecting MYSELF" The Mantra of Lakewood, You seem to be drinking the Kool Aid that is distributed by our WISE leaders. Come out of the closet and visit the ever growing number of OTD children by the Lake on Shabbos. Our wise men just want them to disappear. To the wise Vaad et al, drive thru Lakewood during the many Rush hours DAILY with horns blaring and Patience getting thinner. What used to take 3 to 5 minutes to cross town now takes 20 to 30 minutes if you make it thru alive Oh wise ones working on yours selves, when EVERY community on the[planet opened their homes to Yidden from all backgrounds to experience a Shabbos, Lakewood is silent,cause we're busy working on ourselves (except for that Clallah bake off at Woodlake) Lakewood has gotta be one of the most UN user friendly towards Yidden who are not on such a HIGH level of Frumkeit. Very telling of "working on yourself" and so adeptly Working the System.So Superficial and Selfish

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    1. Your statement is simply not true. Lakewood is very involved in kiruv and outreach. Our sameach fellowship was just in Lakewood. Bmg has torah links. Oprah a kit up Org is run and based out of lakewood. Rabbi milstein lives in town and is involved in kiruv. Dr Roth hosts shabbatons. Among many more. The reason lkwd did not host th en shabbos project has nothing to do with your assertion. It's the same reason Monroe or Monsey did not officially partake. Geographically, there are more non from Jews living in Brooklyn or other out of town communities. The surrounding towns of lkwd have many secular Jews but logistics were not easy as it is elsewhere.

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    2. AnonymousNovember 26, 2015 at 8:32 AM
      So now working on perfecting ourselves is also a bad thing. Becoming a better person is bad. look at you, so filled with bile and hate. yelling at others for trying to work on themselves.
      And then the next hater comes along and has the apposite taina. "mind your own business! work on your self first! Since when are you the Mashgiach..."
      the acid seems to come from all directions.

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  13. Lame Excuse, There are MANY Yidden in outlying areas who don't know an Alef, and as I told one Rabbi who does Kiruv in Monmouth Cty, as he brought some folks over for a Shabbos in Lakewood, Why bother ,cause if they should be convinced to live in Lakewood, their Children will never get into a School. And pray tell oh wise one , what of the HOLY children by the Lake, any wise comments

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  14. Zees,working on Oneself is great but it goes together with Lifting all the Jewish souls around us with Unconditional Love. Many times I've heard from the good folks in Lakewood ,I have to work on myself to the exclusion of all else. That warm rationalization is a typical Fruma Chesben. Some practice Limited,restrained Ahava for a fellow yid esp. if their not dressed in typical Black and White, and many lack skills to relate to others. So superficial and focused on the Exterior with a total Lack of looking at the Pnemius of a fellow Yid

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  15. To" most of the Children" wow you must have had a Double dose of the Kool Aid. Come by the Lake on Shabbos and listen to what these Holy children have to say. They are all from Lakewood, from some of the Finest families, Many are in Pain, so they self medicate with alcohol and drugs resulting in terrible and sometimes Deadly Overdoses. Fact not fiction. They don't fit in the BMG MOLD,much to the Frustration of our all wise leaders who are CLUELESSS in helping lift up these Holy souls .

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  16. "Your statement is not true" wow! so much Kiruv in Lakewood, so give us a better EXCUSE why Lakewood did not open its doors for a fellow Yid on Shabbos. Such a warm Makom Torah ( for the select few)

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  17. OK I'm out. I'll return on the next post about Blue Claws.

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  18. So how does this work? Hershkowitz leaves and everybody stops talking?
    Keep goin at it guys. A little high blood pressure will keep you alive and awake!

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  19. Lakewood is a Yeshiva town the primary focus is Torah lishma. Nevertheless there are plenty of youngeleit and baal habatim that are involved in kiruv. Partners in Torah, Oorah torah mates have many Lakewooders involved. There are many kiruv shabbatons throughout the year in Lakewood. So what if there was no big ads about the once a year shabbos project? does that mean Lakewood shuns kiruv and looks down at fellow Jews? Chas veshalom. stop stoking a fire when there is none.

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